Crown turns when lever closed

[Robert11]

I just received my new ZF 682. Aside from it running fast it looks great and that atrapnhas got to be one of the most comfortable I have. But, I noticed when the lever closes on the crown there is not a lot of tension on it. I can even spin the crown with it closed. Though it looks like it’s pushed all the way in. I have a VSF 312 which has much more tension and the crown does not spin. This is my only reference point. I’m sure there’s some variability between makers and not sure if that’s what going on or some problem that can potentially comprise it from being water proof. Anyone else’s crown spin when the lever is closed?

It does appear to be pushed all the way in and maybe it’s an inherent design of the ZF. I found this on a review post.

View attachment 55837

View attachment 55837

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[mysterio]

The lever does not prevent the crown from being turned. That is not the purpose of the design of the device protecting the crown (commonly known as the crown guard). It is supposed to put pressure on the gasket inside the watch to preserve the watch's water resistance. Just to be clear.

However, that aside, the tightness by which the lever snaps against the crown can be adjusted. Behind the crown (at the left side) is a small hex nut that can be adjusted which limits how much the crown can be pushed in (and as a result how much force the lever can apply to it from the right side). It's prominent on the gen picture, slightly visible on the XF version and almost pushed in on the ZF.

 

[voxx]

How does one go about adjusting that hex nut .. is it done only from the inside or can it be adjusted without opening the case ?
You are referring to the seal inside the crown .. right ?
Does adjusting it to be further out (and tighter against the lever) affect the water tight seal inside the watch ?

 

[mysterio]

How does one go about adjusting that hex nut .. is it done only from the inside or can it be adjusted without opening the case ?

You have to remove the crownguard and the stem from the movement (which would necessitate opening the case). I am not sure about the structure on ZF cases as they weren't a prominent manufacturer when @ALE7575 did the case review with Gen, Noob, H-fac and KW (or now known as VSF/XF). The two designs are the Noob/XF/Gen and H-fac.

Either way, you can adjust the hex screw. I saw you posted in the PAM382 thread with the concern on the hex screw, didn't you adjust it?

 

[voxx]

I didn't adjust it but was more concerned about whether it was water-tight as is or if it could be adjusted and improve the seal. I have KW and I see that the crown tube is part of the case so the first point of water sealing would be the seal inside the crown, regardless of what's going on inside the case. Is there another seal inside the case that seals around the stem ?

 

[mysterio]

I didn't adjust it but was more concerned about whether it was water-tight as is or if it could be adjusted and improve the seal. I have KW and I see that the crown tube is part of the case so the first point of water sealing would be the seal inside the crown, regardless of what's going on inside the case. Is there another seal inside the case that seals around the stem ?

I haven't disassembled any PAMs so can't speak out of experience but as far as I can tell the gasket on the crown itself is the only water protection on the crown part. Maybe my fellow team members @kilowattore or @Grimlocktime or @chris3007 can chime in as they have built PAMs from the ground up.

 

[Robert11]

Ok thanks good information. I don’t think there is an issue with my lever because it is pressing the crown down as far as it will go. When I push with my fingers the crown does not go any further. I think it just feels like there’s less tension because there’s little pressure pushing up from the crown. On my VSF it is very difficult to push the crown in as there is more resistance. I’ll have to do a pressure test to see if there really is an issue here or not. In the meantime can anyone else comment on the relative pressure exerted from the crown? Can you easily push it down with your fingers against the case of the watch when the lever is open? Because of the lack of resistance I question whether there is even a seal in there.


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[domiffm]

Maybe it’s an issue with the crown itself. Had it in the past with my 111v4 that the spring within the crown was worn out/too little tension so it became wobbly and with too little pressure when the crownguard lever was snapped in.

Only solution was to order a new crown incl. stem and all works fine now.

 

[mysterio]

Ok thanks good information. I don’t think there is an issue with my lever because it is pressing the crown down as far as it will go. When I push with my fingers the crown does not go any further. I think it just feels like there’s less tension because there’s little pressure pushing up from the crown. On my VSF it is very difficult to push the crown in as there is more resistance. I’ll have to do a pressure test to see if there really is an issue here or not. In the meantime can anyone else comment on the relative pressure exerted from the crown? Can you easily push it down with your fingers against the case of the watch when the lever is open? Because of the lack of resistance I question whether there is even a seal in there.


Sent from my satellite phone.

If you're going to do a pressure test without knowing if the assembly's water integrity is sound, if possible do a dry pressure test. Also just checked my submersibles and there is a noticeable resistance when trying to push down on the crown so it translates to an equally noticeable snap when I close or open the lever.

Maybe it’s an issue with the crown itself. Had it in the past with my 111v4 that the spring within the crown was worn out/too little tension so it became wobbly and with too little pressure when the crownguard lever was snapped in.

Only solution was to order a new crown incl. stem and all works fine now.

If it's an issue with the crown itself then @Robert11 can discuss this with his TD as the watch was just received.

 

[Robert11]

So I just did a pressure test up to 90 psi let it sit for about 30 minutes. I started releasing the pressure then submersed in water no air bubbles coming out at all at least not out of the crown area. When I got to almost equal pressure a big bubble came out but I can’t tell if it was from the Crystal or from behind the bezel. Anyway crown seems ok. Now, if I can figure out how to regulate it!


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[kilowattore]

Sorry if I'm late

The only rubber seal is in the inner part of the crown.

The hex nut can be adjusted using a small hex key or a pair of strong pliers (carefully so you don't damage the nut).
Of course you have to remove the CG, release the stem and remove the crown in order to access the nut
You should be able to detach the crown from the case that tiny bit needed to have a proper snap.

 

[d4m.test]

Sorry if I'm late

The only rubber seal is in the inner part of the crown.

The hex nut can be adjusted using a small hex key or a pair of strong pliers (carefully so you don't damage the nut).
Of course you have to remove the CG, release the stem and remove the crown in order to access the nut
You should be able to detach the crown from the case that tiny bit needed to have a proper snap.

There is actually an o-ring inside the tube, just like a Rolex!

So I just did a pressure test up to 90 psi let it sit for about 30 minutes. I started releasing the pressure then submersed in water no air bubbles coming out at all at least not out of the crown area. When I got to almost equal pressure a big bubble came out but I can’t tell if it was from the Crystal or from behind the bezel. Anyway crown seems ok. Now, if I can figure out how to regulate it!


Sent from my satellite phone.

Ive got some personal bad experiences with ZF. A few problems I've had:
1. The hex nut comes loose.
2. crown gasket is too thin.
3. No crown gasket at all.

You may just need a thicker flat gasket under your crown. If you try to adjust the height of your hex nut, just be aware that it might not stay put. The threads aren't very tight and the nut tends to walk out unless it's totally tightened down.

 

[mysterio]

@kilowattore and @Grimlocktime thanks for the input. Grim, can't you put some loctite on the thread where the hex not screws down to lock it into position?

 

[Robert11]

Thin gasket sounds like the issue. It feels like not much resistance other than the spring when pushing it in. Definitely a different feel from my VSF 312. Anyway since it seems to have held in my 6 atm test I’m inclined to just do nothing for now. I’ll retest again to confirm after I regulate it.

There is actually an o-ring inside the tube, just like a Rolex!



Ive got some personal bad experiences with ZF. A few problems I've had:
1. The hex nut comes loose.
2. crown gasket is too thin.
3. No crown gasket at all.

You may just need a thicker flat gasket under your crown. If you try to adjust the height of your hex nut, just be aware that it might not stay put. The threads aren't very tight and the nut tends to walk out unless it's totally tightened down.

Sent from my satellite phone.

 

[d4m.test]

@kilowattore and @Grimlocktime thanks for the input. Grim, can't you put some loctite on the thread where the hex not screws down to lock it into position?

Absolutely! I've done this a few times. Normally the problem is stem too long or gasket too thin, but if your CG lever isn't making good contact you need to loctite your threads and adjust the nut out.