A Grail Watch? (Updated april 2011)
I've been a watch afficionado since I was six years old, but never yet had a collection of anything noteworthy. (Perhaps besides a Timex Ironman that I filled up with crc-oil in order to make it compression resistant to several tens of thousands of feet in 1993, to my knowlege this was several years before any of the big companies like B&R made their oil efforts
)
I found this forum two months ago, and hunting around the posts and reviews, I wanted my first rep to be a "super-rep" so as not to dissapoint me and turn me off this hobby.
The Panerai Pam 177L seemed to be such a watch and I promptly ordered a specimen from Josh (the only off RWI dealer I would dare to try) mainly because of good feedback on his QC routines and exellent communications.
The watch took a little more than two weeks to arrive, something I'm quite happy with concidering the global mail chaos around christmas.
As the site stated watches might ship in toy boxes I was prepared when I tore the box open in my car after getting it at the post office (-can any of you guys wait til you're home?? thougt so... )
Being 100% positive that the contents of said toy-box would be lots of bubble wrap with a watch in center, the look of my face should have been recorded for posterity when my jaw dropped to abysmal depths as I pulled out of the box... a timepiece... Bright green. Rattly plastic. Watermelon shaped with little plastic grasshopper on top........
I was having a rapidly waxing sensation that i had been scammed big time... paranoia that these forums were just a fake sales front for one big scamming operation..
As a last resort i went home and opened my watermelon.
Hallelujah!!
-The PAM 177L Titanium super rep!
Extremely good looking watch, mechanichal finishing and precision machining of the case and dial were nothing short of exellent and in my opinion on par with the genuine article as I had inspected it at the ad a few weeks ago.
Crystal is beautifully curved with great gen like ar.
Sandwich dial is deep, nice and sharply cut.
Lume is mind blowing and as good as my gen Omega PO.
-The watch only had two (minor) flaws in my opinion. (I don't mind the non-dagger shaped regulator.)
1: the crystal is not pressed evenly. there is a difference of height above bezel of roughly 1mm from left side to right side. Not a 3foot rule dealbreaker, but still slightly annoying on your arm.
2: One of the visible cogwheels in the movement has its decorative filing pattern off center. A detail that is quite easy to see when handling the watch, I have however no intention to try and fool anyone that this is a gen, and as this is not visible when on the wrist I accepted this in the QC pics.
-Lume should not be any better than this as it would be disturbing in movie theaters or driving your car at night
-Titanium on rough leather... Match made in heaven.. Strap has Panerai logo stamped on the inside.
-Machining tolerances on the various Ti parts are almost zero. Very very good! Sandwich dial is something "different" and lends and air of exclusivity to an otherwise simple design.
-Notice the difference in crystal height? .. :unsure2:
-I love the way the double curved crystal refracts the light!
-Sandwich dial is nice and deeep. Cannon pin is ok.
-Tight as a very tight thing... yet works like a charm..
-Personally I think this caseback and movement is stunning! It may be a little coarse under a loupe, but then how often does anyone carry a loupe?
slightly let down by the off-center filing-pattern on the small cogwheel though.
-At the price we are paying for these rep's I think it is no less than amazing what kind of machinery and art we are privileged enough to carry around on our wrists!
-Dig the pam thing, the gargantuan leather straps makes it almost a garment, not just a weeny timepiece on your arm
-I wonder if it's an easy fix to get that crystal pressed even?....
-The offending gear... Yes we are a retentive bunch... But look at those Cotes de Geneve engravings! and at such a price!
-Saved the bad for last: My watch was gaining almost 120 minutes a day :rotors: and was utterly useless as a timekeeper. The watch itself reached the same conclusion after two days running and layed down its work permanently. Suicide? Heart failure? Who knows...
:beatahorse:
The watch is now on its way back to China to be repaired, but with chinese new-year coming up I realize it may take some time before I see her again.
Joshua have been extremely communicative and helpful all the way, and as these 177L's otherwise have a good reputation I guess I was simply unlucky, either the movement has had issues or the shipping might have mishandled the watch.
-To the knowlegable among us; are these springs supposed to look like this? (bent, uneven, uncentered) and is the shock protection not entirely in its place?
-Broken Hearted....
Thanks for reading guys, my conclusion is that this is an excellent watch. And although it's not perfect, and even though the movement in mine was a lemon, I would still order one today.
From my experience dealing with Josh, I also have complete confidence this watch will once again tick with vigor and precision.
I will update this post when the watch retuns from China.
-Or as they say in hollywood: PAM177 Will Be Back!
On a forum near you!
UPDATE!!!opcorn:
-The watch returned safely after repairs in China and has now run precisely for more than two weeks. It is currently running 9 seconds slow pr day, quite within acceptable limits and and probably something that could be adjusted even tighter if I had wanted to.
Josh had even changed the cogwheel that had an uneven filing pattern so the visible movement no longer has any tells that the uninitiated can recognize...:thumbsup: (the swan neck dagger is purely a wis-thing! )
I also pressure tested the watch and was astonished to find that it passed the 200meter test with flying colours!! -both vacuum and positive pressure :thumbsup: -That is not to say that each and every 177L rep out there will perform similarly, but proves they have this potential when properly built and lubed.
This is currently my favorite watch alongside my gen omega po.
Highly recommend the watch, highly recommend Josh as a dealer.
Happy watch shopping to you all!!
I've been a watch afficionado since I was six years old, but never yet had a collection of anything noteworthy. (Perhaps besides a Timex Ironman that I filled up with crc-oil in order to make it compression resistant to several tens of thousands of feet in 1993, to my knowlege this was several years before any of the big companies like B&R made their oil efforts
)I found this forum two months ago, and hunting around the posts and reviews, I wanted my first rep to be a "super-rep" so as not to dissapoint me and turn me off this hobby.
The Panerai Pam 177L seemed to be such a watch and I promptly ordered a specimen from Josh (the only off RWI dealer I would dare to try) mainly because of good feedback on his QC routines and exellent communications.
The watch took a little more than two weeks to arrive, something I'm quite happy with concidering the global mail chaos around christmas.
As the site stated watches might ship in toy boxes I was prepared when I tore the box open in my car after getting it at the post office (-can any of you guys wait til you're home?? thougt so...
)Being 100% positive that the contents of said toy-box would be lots of bubble wrap with a watch in center, the look of my face should have been recorded for posterity when my jaw dropped to abysmal depths as I pulled out of the box... a timepiece... Bright green. Rattly plastic. Watermelon shaped with little plastic grasshopper on top........
I was having a rapidly waxing sensation that i had been scammed big time... paranoia that these forums were just a fake sales front for one big scamming operation..
As a last resort i went home and opened my watermelon.
Hallelujah!!
-The PAM 177L Titanium super rep!
Extremely good looking watch, mechanichal finishing and precision machining of the case and dial were nothing short of exellent and in my opinion on par with the genuine article as I had inspected it at the ad a few weeks ago.
Crystal is beautifully curved with great gen like ar.
Sandwich dial is deep, nice and sharply cut.
Lume is mind blowing and as good as my gen Omega PO.
-The watch only had two (minor) flaws in my opinion. (I don't mind the non-dagger shaped regulator.)
1: the crystal is not pressed evenly. there is a difference of height above bezel of roughly 1mm from left side to right side. Not a 3foot rule dealbreaker, but still slightly annoying on your arm.
2: One of the visible cogwheels in the movement has its decorative filing pattern off center. A detail that is quite easy to see when handling the watch, I have however no intention to try and fool anyone that this is a gen, and as this is not visible when on the wrist I accepted this in the QC pics.
-Lume should not be any better than this as it would be disturbing in movie theaters or driving your car at night
-Titanium on rough leather... Match made in heaven.. Strap has Panerai logo stamped on the inside.
-Machining tolerances on the various Ti parts are almost zero. Very very good! Sandwich dial is something "different" and lends and air of exclusivity to an otherwise simple design.
-Notice the difference in crystal height? .. :unsure2:
-I love the way the double curved crystal refracts the light!
-Sandwich dial is nice and deeep. Cannon pin is ok.
-Tight as a very tight thing... yet works like a charm..
-Personally I think this caseback and movement is stunning! It may be a little coarse under a loupe, but then how often does anyone carry a loupe?
slightly let down by the off-center filing-pattern on the small cogwheel though.
-At the price we are paying for these rep's I think it is no less than amazing what kind of machinery and art we are privileged enough to carry around on our wrists!
-Dig the pam thing, the gargantuan leather straps makes it almost a garment, not just a weeny timepiece on your arm
-I wonder if it's an easy fix to get that crystal pressed even?....
-The offending gear... Yes we are a retentive bunch... But look at those Cotes de Geneve engravings! and at such a price!
-Saved the bad for last: My watch was gaining almost 120 minutes a day :rotors: and was utterly useless as a timekeeper. The watch itself reached the same conclusion after two days running and layed down its work permanently. Suicide? Heart failure? Who knows...
:beatahorse:
The watch is now on its way back to China to be repaired, but with chinese new-year coming up I realize it may take some time before I see her again.
Joshua have been extremely communicative and helpful all the way, and as these 177L's otherwise have a good reputation I guess I was simply unlucky, either the movement has had issues or the shipping might have mishandled the watch.
-To the knowlegable among us; are these springs supposed to look like this? (bent, uneven, uncentered) and is the shock protection not entirely in its place?
-Broken Hearted....
Thanks for reading guys, my conclusion is that this is an excellent watch. And although it's not perfect, and even though the movement in mine was a lemon, I would still order one today.
From my experience dealing with Josh, I also have complete confidence this watch will once again tick with vigor and precision.
I will update this post when the watch retuns from China.
-Or as they say in hollywood: PAM177 Will Be Back!
On a forum near you!
UPDATE!!!
opcorn:-The watch returned safely after repairs in China and has now run precisely for more than two weeks. It is currently running 9 seconds slow pr day, quite within acceptable limits and and probably something that could be adjusted even tighter if I had wanted to.
Josh had even changed the cogwheel that had an uneven filing pattern so the visible movement no longer has any tells that the uninitiated can recognize...:thumbsup: (the swan neck dagger is purely a wis-thing!
)I also pressure tested the watch and was astonished to find that it passed the 200meter test with flying colours!! -both vacuum and positive pressure :thumbsup: -That is not to say that each and every 177L rep out there will perform similarly, but proves they have this potential when properly built and lubed.
This is currently my favorite watch alongside my gen omega po.
Highly recommend the watch, highly recommend Josh as a dealer.
Happy watch shopping to you all!!
