can anyone identify the Pam by my description here?

[If you see Kay]

Here is what I observed on somebody's wrist today at a meeting:

- it was a Luminor Marina
- it had a seconds at 9 but the 9 marker was the same size as the other markers. The sub seconds was too far inboard.
- it had a datewindow, but the date wheel was white with black numbers
- the Cyclops was inside the crystal (underside) and the date font was a bit thin
- also the datewindow appeared too far inboard
- the lever for the crown guard was pointing down (but on the 3:00 side still) and the curl on the finger grip to pull the lever was quite bent a bit too far outward.
- the 3:00 marker was the same size as the other markers. (I think)
- it had a closed caseback and the whole watch felt a bit light.
- brushed ss case.

I am pretty sure it was a sausage and not a sandwich.

- buckle was not signed, but strap was.

I am betting that it was a cheap fake , but didn't want to call him out. He was a very nice guy with lots to say. An older fellow who obviously had money, but misaligned with his choice of a fake watch imo.

If I am mistaken, I'd like to know which model this is.

I'm going to see him next month and if he is still wearing it, I'd fosho call him out in private armed with the knowledge of you Pam experts.

I figure if he wasn't going to call himself out, I wasn't going to call myself out as I showed him my Sead PO at the same time.

 

[Luthier]

$30 fantasy. I have it.

 

[If you see Kay]

Not quite.

let me add to the observation:

- black dial
- square datewindow
- sausage markers all around (no numbers I am pretty sure, but can't be for sure)
- crown guard lever pointing down

 

[Luthier]

They make tons of different configurations of this watch. Most important - position of seconds subdial and DW. Rest can vary.

 

[If you see Kay]

what threw me off was the sub seconds at 9 and the datewindow. Both too far inboard and the down pointing crown guard lever, PLUS the square datewindow with the white datewheel and the black numbers.

I said to him "I've never seen a white datewheel with black numbers on this type of Luminor Marina. Also I've never seen the crown guard lever pointing downward"

He said: "Yes, I know, yada yada yada..." I don't think even he knows of the reputed, or disputed authenticity of his watch.

 

[Luthier]

Busted!!!

By the way, I bought this PAM on the street of Guangzhou about 7 years ago... Still working perfectly.

 

[frigpig]

If it has a seconds output at 9 and has a 9 on the dial is Canal street quality.

Check Watcheden.

 

[If you see Kay]

Okay I just went through every single freakin WE Pam they had and could not find one with an upside down crown lever on the right, a white datewheel and black numbers and an way way inboard sub secs at 9.

WE is the king of fantasy Pams and if they don't have it, then that guys Pam is a fantasy fantasy.

Not sure if he even knows it or not. If he does, he hides it pretty well. I didn't tell him I used to own the 111, 048, and the 183 and still have the 104.

Maybe I'll press him further next month (in private and aside from the crowd). A very nice fellow, so no need to out him with shame on such a bad fantasy rep.

 

[frigpig]

You know you can flip a Pam lever in about a minute by re and re-ing 2 screws right? :lol:

 

[If you see Kay]

yeah, but who would do that? you could also flip the long end of the strap around and buckle it backwards too.

 

[jamesfl]

The CG was probably installed upside down by a tired or new worker at the factory.

 

[mysterio]

yeah, but who would do that? you could also flip the long end of the strap around and buckle it backwards too.

A maker who has no interest in selling accurate reps, just sell watches. Period.

It's a poor rep or a fantasy like what Luth posted. As such, you could easily see it in many configurations like dial color, dial texture, lume color, etc.

Why do you want to call him out anyway (even in private)? From the looks of things, he wouldn't be able to call you out on your Sead PO.

 

[If you see Kay]

Why do you want to call him out anyway (even in private)? From the looks of things, he wouldn't be able to call you out on your Sead PO.

why?

So when someone with a real Pam confronts him, this guy doesn't make a fool of himself. I can save him the embarrassment.

 

[mysterio]

why?

So when someone with a real Pam confronts him, this guy doesn't make a fool of himself. I can save him the embarrassment.

Oh, so you mean break the bad news to him gently? Ok. I've never seen the term call out used in a positive way. Now I've seen it. :lol:

 

[Pannyforme]

dude dont be a weirdo and start calling people out, dont be rude and just leave the poor guy alone

 

[Winemaker]

Funny, someone wearing a rep calling out someone wearing a rep. All because theirs looks worse......

 

[If you see Kay]

dude dont be a weirdo and start calling people out, dont be rude and just leave the poor guy alone

Dude, I want to make sure he doesn't pass that off as a gen to a gen owner of a Pam or a gen wis, and make himself look like a fool, because I think he thinks it's real. I want to save him from embarrassment. Now, if it was a super rep or even a half decent one, I wouldn't say anything and let him live the fantasy, but this one looks sooooo bad, I don't even think he knows how bad it really is.

If the term "calling him out" is wrong then I stand corrected.

 

[Pannyforme]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannyforme View Post
dude dont be a weirdo and start calling people out, dont be rude and just leave the poor guy alone
Dude, I want to make sure he doesn't pass that off as a gen to a gen owner of a Pam or a gen wis, and make himself look like a fool, because I think he thinks it's real. I want to save him from embarrassment. Now, if it was a super rep or even a half decent one, I wouldn't say anything and let him live the fantasy, but this one looks sooooo bad, I don't even think he knows how bad it really is.

If the term "calling him out" is wrong then I stand corrected.

just my 2 cents, he would probably not appreciate the 'nosy neighbour' attitude from you, he probably knows its fake or maybe it was a gift from someone so he cherishes it be it a good or bad rep. i mean let him be happy with whatever he buys with his money and what not, its not your $$$ going down the drain isnt it? i mean i wouldnt appreciate someone telling me how my house is a dumpster when i work hard to buy the paradise dumpster in the first place. you know?its just rude mate..i dont know maybe its just me. hell if you actually care, instead of 'calling him out' to boost your ego, then why dnt you give him a super rep and say hey this is a gift from me, dont tell anyone but its a replica! wear it well friend.again,..just my 2 cents

 

[If you see Kay]

I never said I wanted to boost my ego, mate.

You don't get my point. Doesn't matter anyways. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[revhrd]

Actually, I get the OP's point. If any of us were barely getting into the dark side, or perhaps bought a watch off craigs list or the bay thinking it's gen, at what point would we want to know the truth? Is ignorance truly bliss? If I were the pam fantasy's fantasy owner, I'd rather know from a person in the quiet then be full blown called out. I'd be grateful and actually be curious to know more about better looking watches.

It seems that the owner is nice and likes watches from the sound of it. OP, I would not use the term call out as it incites members here to think that by being nice about it, you're coming off as pretentious. Instead, call it educating the owner and hopefully help him avoid getting scammed again if that was the case.

As OP stated seen in a meeting, meaning this guy has the potential instance where he could get called out by a colleague or business associate. It could get ugly fast for that guy. Worse case is: He gets mad because he knowingly bought it as a fake and has been trying to pass it off as gen. In which case OP walks away and shares no inside knowledge on better reps. Best case: guy is grateful and learns more about watches.