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Calling PAM expert.
- Thread starter optimis9
- Start date
optimis9 said:
Make or modify?
'Make' needs both pieces to be made by the same company from the same drawings, with sufficient attention paid to ensure a proper fit.
'Mod' takes about an hour with a micro-mill and a bottle of engineers blue.
Why? Very simple, it costs. :twisted: Unfortunately you're dealing with the 'Good' v the 'Good Enough' situation
Just try to make a crown guard from scratch where the lever is as tight as a gen. :roll:
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Pretty hard, evidently. Even V's $200/ea CGs from his project had some QC/finishing issues.
However, Rocketeer was spot on -- we're dealing with a case of the current CGs being "good enough". If people still buy the watches with the wrong CGs, why invest all the time and $$$ to make them better? The rep makers don't care as long as they sell...
However, Rocketeer was spot on -- we're dealing with a case of the current CGs being "good enough". If people still buy the watches with the wrong CGs, why invest all the time and $$$ to make them better? The rep makers don't care as long as they sell...
cybee said:http://replica-watch.info/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=34601
Thanks Cybee. But what I talking about is the pin on the crow guard. The gen that I saw lately ( real life not photo ) seem to have no gap at all between the pin and the crow.
babola
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optimis9 said:Thanks Cybee. But what I talking about is the pin on the crow guard. The gen that I saw lately ( real life not photo ) seem to have no gap at all between the pin and the crow.cybee said:http://replica-watch.info/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=34601
Not that hard. This is one of those "must have" mods if you're after the aestetical completeness of your PAM rep.
Can you live without it - of course you can, but why should you? It takes a little know-how, patience and little handyman in any one of us.
There are basicaly two approaches I know of, when it comes to fixing the recessed or convex CG pin.
First is simple and requires a very little skill and time. You simply push a pin slightly with a bracelet resizing-tol or pin pusher, to stick out of the CG a bit. Then you "attack" the CG with a 400-600 grit sand paper of sanding block until you make the pin sit flush with the CG surface. Finish up with teh 800-1000 grit for that smooth satin look and feel. I don't personaly prefer this method as it leaves both the CG and the pin with brush/satin finish, and it can't be used with Pams with polished CGs unless you re-polish the whole CG...very tedious and time consuming process. I prefer the pin with polished finish like gen CG pins.
Second, my prefered method, requires pin removal, flattening and polishing on its own. I use small (micro) pliers and try to keep a steady hand when moving on top of the sand paper. Also, do not forget to use a loupe for this, although it seems a trivial job, it's easy to take a bit much at the wrong angle. After this, I polish it with the Cape Cod cloth, or sometimes a thin cloth soaked in Brasso for S/S.
Then I simply re-insert it into the CG and position it carefuly so it sits flush with the rest of the CG surface. This is much nicer mod, and also closer to genuine CG/pin config if you really care about that - I don't but the finish as I said, is much nicer.
hope this helps,
babola
Babola Thanks a lot for your answer. You're truely a PAM expert.
One more questions. Will your method remove or reduce the surrounding gap between the pin and the crown guard?
One more questions. Will your method remove or reduce the surrounding gap between the pin and the crown guard?
babola
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optimis9 said:
I believe you're referring to an usightly gap on the edges of the lever pin hole on top side of the CG, I've seen some pretty bad ones in the past, indeed.
The methods I mention don't do much to reduce the extent of CG pin hole damage, really. The only method I can think of would be to "shave" or sand off some of the metal from top of the CG until you minimise the appearance of the large hole. This however will unavoidably create thinner looking CG side profile. Some Pam rep CGs are thicker than the others and taking some "meat" of those wouldn't affact the whole CG look and feel, some already come very thin from the factory and those should probably be left alone in this respect.
How badly affected is your CG...can you post a pic?
cheers,
babola
Forgiveness asked from those of you who know all this already but I thought maybe some might find a little production theory of interest.
I know that making a pin that fits right seems simple, and 'in theory' it should be, but you are dealing with engineering an item 1.5mm across with a zero tolerance fit, and working with small sizes is much harder than larger items. Not only do you need precision equipment and tooling (read 'expensive') but even the foundation they sit on becomes critical. For example I would love to install a better, heavier milling machine in my workshop but it would be pointless without reinforcing the flooring where it sits with a deeper concrete slab to remove residual vibration and movement. That's the kind of tolerance requirements we're talking about for production.
Even making a one-off isn't simple. You need to drill a 1.5mm (exactly) hole perfectly vertical and square in both the guard and a 1.505 hole in the lever (it needs to rotate, without play) and the hole on the lever needs to perfectly align with the hole on the guard. Then you heat the crown guard to expand it enough to permit a tight interference fit when you press in your 1.5mm pin, again pressing it in exactly vertical and square.
If a single element of all that is out, you won't get that perfect fit, so most will drill the lever hole slightly oversize and fit a pin that's very slightly undersize to allow a 'production' tolerance and easy assembly, then trust that the sanding flat will fill most of the gap and accept the rattly loose lever as inevitable.
Now ask why the Rep factories aren't copying the ball insert in the lever. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Edit: Just read the info Babola posted while i was typing this. My comments are purely relating to the manufacturing issues and why we get the problems we do on the finished items. For modding an existing watch, read Babola's excellent advice. If you have a crown guard with significant distortion around the entry hole, you're really looking at fitting an oversize pin.
I know that making a pin that fits right seems simple, and 'in theory' it should be, but you are dealing with engineering an item 1.5mm across with a zero tolerance fit, and working with small sizes is much harder than larger items. Not only do you need precision equipment and tooling (read 'expensive') but even the foundation they sit on becomes critical. For example I would love to install a better, heavier milling machine in my workshop but it would be pointless without reinforcing the flooring where it sits with a deeper concrete slab to remove residual vibration and movement. That's the kind of tolerance requirements we're talking about for production.
Even making a one-off isn't simple. You need to drill a 1.5mm (exactly) hole perfectly vertical and square in both the guard and a 1.505 hole in the lever (it needs to rotate, without play) and the hole on the lever needs to perfectly align with the hole on the guard. Then you heat the crown guard to expand it enough to permit a tight interference fit when you press in your 1.5mm pin, again pressing it in exactly vertical and square.
If a single element of all that is out, you won't get that perfect fit, so most will drill the lever hole slightly oversize and fit a pin that's very slightly undersize to allow a 'production' tolerance and easy assembly, then trust that the sanding flat will fill most of the gap and accept the rattly loose lever as inevitable.
Now ask why the Rep factories aren't copying the ball insert in the lever. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Edit: Just read the info Babola posted while i was typing this. My comments are purely relating to the manufacturing issues and why we get the problems we do on the finished items. For modding an existing watch, read Babola's excellent advice. If you have a crown guard with significant distortion around the entry hole, you're really looking at fitting an oversize pin.
Thanks a lot Babola. Actually my CG pin is not worst than your Avatar, except I'm quite obsess with a perfect CG pin right now. Probably from seeing too much gen.babola said:
Might this work? I've had a little metal work class in my days as a high school student. I remember when we want to install a pin on a plate and make a perfect look, we would insert the pin (the pin being a little longer than needed) than mash its head into a mushroom like shape, pushing down, to cover the hole. Then we would file until completely flat.
optimis9 said:
Just make sure the pin is a softer metal than the CG or CG lever. This would, of course, require a re-polishing of the top of your CG, if it's a model that needs a polished CG.
babola
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optimis9 said:Thanks a lot Babola. Actually my CG pin is not worst than your Avatar, except I'm quite obsess with a perfect CG pin right now. Probably from seeing too much gen.
My avatar pic shows a gen PAM 27 - LOL! :lol:
What does that tell you, eh ?
optimis9 said:
Sorry but you're asking for trouble, the tolerances are very small here...so no hammers, mashing, mushrooms etc. please ! :wink:
babola said:
Thanks man. I know the gen have inconsistency too. But the recent one I see are all perfect, no gap.
Thanks Hoo for your answer too.
This is a great forum.. Thanks for all the answer.