Broken mainspring?

[Raddave]

To all the movment gurus......Got one of those new Black Bays, its got a seagull 2824 clone in it .When i got it, it wound smooth
Then after a bit when i hand wound it, the rotor started spinning. The gears on the autowind were jamming. so i pulled the auto wind module and stripped it , cleaned in lighter fluid, oiled it and reassembled it.
The autowinder now worked good but it felt stiff to wind, so im thinking the mainbarrel isnt greased properly, so i went to pull it to see.
When i went to remove the screw for the gear attached to the main barrel arbor, it would come out about 3 turns then it would not unthread any further and as i kept unscrewing it would like ratchet, like its now turning the arbor back wards..click , click, click.

Unable to remove the gear, i put it back together, as its still running.

A couple weeks later.....


Then while regulating it, it just stops.
I touch the balance wheel and its free, and swings, but acts like there is no power.
So I go to pull the main bridge, after i let down the main spring, and it does let down so i know it was charged.
I take the screws out of the main bridge and cant lift the whole assembly out. So I try to unscrew the screw in the mainbarrel again and this time it comes out with no problem. i cant lift the main barrel out to inspect it. And now its late so i put it back together to work on it at a later date. I screw the screw into the mainbarrel, after putting the bridge back on and the watch starts running again
???
I try to remove the screw from the mainbarrel again and it does the ratchet thing again.
I try to wind it, and it winds butter smooth.
So now here comes the question....

What do you think is up?
Broken mainspring?

Im planning on replacing it with one of the TC 2824s anyway as i cant regulate this thing worth a damn, but id like to have this movement intact incase i sell this watch, as its got the engraved movement.

 

[xmartin86x]

Hi there, I was searching for a similar issue for this watch. I had the same problem when I'm hand winding it, the rotor spins together. It had wound smoothly on day 1, but then the issue of the rotor spinning together when hand wounding occurs.

What causes it? Is there any parts need to be replaced?

 

[ado213]

the screw in the arbor is a common issue, if it's ok now it should be fine. The ratcheting noise you hear on undoing the screw is the outer mainspring end slipping over the location posts in the barrel, they only lock in one direction, the winding direction.

The rotor spinning on winding is also a fairly common issue, TC covered this recently in a post about his superclone winding issues, it's the same issues with yours, which you've resolved now.

as you've had to clean and oil the autowind mech, I suggest that this may need doing to the rest of the watch. As you are aware the power train has to be flawlessly smoth in operation and power transmission before you can attempt to regulate your hairspring.

Best giveaway on performance is "amplitude" if you have a timegrapher it will answer a lot of your questions for you and at least point you in the right direction.

 

[crwilsn]

Mainspring for a 2824 is pretty cheap and easy to get on ebay. May worth changing.

 

[Raddave]

Hi there, I was searching for a similar issue for this watch. I had the same problem when I'm hand winding it, the rotor spins together. It had wound smoothly on day 1, but then the issue of the rotor spinning together when hand wounding occurs.

What causes it? Is there any parts need to be replaced?

Just try cleaning and relubing the autowind module.

 

[KBH]

I would change both the autowind gears and the mainspring to an ETA if I was planning on keeping the watch for a while. It's simple and relatively inexpensive.

 

[Raddave]

To Adrian and crwilsn....I have since replaced the movement, with a gen ETA 2824 elabore movement that i had sitting around.

Even though the stock movement was running fine, the screw problem with the main spring barrel bothered me in the back of my mind. Silly i know, but what ever

Upon dissasembly of the black bay, i found that it did not have the H4 setup, that the watch had hands with really long tubes on it, so i was able to swap a stock movement into it. I did not need the TC movement with H4 setup after all.

Adrian was able to coach me through the swap through PM (big thanks Adrian !!!)
With the stock movement, and the domed dial and no datewheel on the movement, to get the proper hand spacing i had to assemble the movement with no dial spacer. But it all worked out perfect.....good hand spacing and stem alignment.
Plus it running like a dream !

I ve still got the stock movement with all the Tudor engraving for if i ever sell the watch, but im happy with the way it turned out.


EDIT: And KBH, you put that up while i was composing this reply, Im a slow typer (two finger master). But thanks for the tip buddy

 

[xmartin86x]

Just try cleaning and relubing the autowind module.

Thanks Raddave! Will try it and update~

 

[xmartin86x]

i was actually reading through the forums and found out abt TC 2824-2 with the #4 canon pinion.

In a worst case scenario if cleaning n relubing the autowind module, I wonder if it would fit the ZF Tudor Black Bay Heritage V3 just by swapping the movt even thought this has datewheel on?

 

[Raddave]

i was actually reading through the forums and found out abt TC 2824-2 with the #4 canon pinion.

In a worst case scenario if cleaning n relubing the autowind module, I wonder if it would fit the ZF Tudor Black Bay Heritage V3 just by swapping the movt even thought this has datewheel on?

Um NO. if you are referring to swap the TC unit with the seagull(ZF) unit it wont work on a straight up swap.
The TC unit would bolt in fine, but the tc unit also has H4 wheels and pinions, The ZF unit used regular wheels and pinions. ZF used longer tubes on the hands to lift them up to the correct height. If one were to use the ZF hands with the H4 pinions and wheels it would lift the hand off the dial a rediculious amount. Possibly draging on the crystal.
So in order to use the TC unit with H4 wheels and pinions, you would also need to procure some tudor gold snowflake hands with regular tube lengths. They are available through WSO, but the lume sucks and gold color is not the same

 

[xmartin86x]

ohrighty then, tc2824 would be not an option. THank you Raddave!

 

[crwilsn]

I just refurbed a tc 2824 and I have to say I was not impressed. More trouble with that movement than anything else I have overhauled.

Good call on the gen ETA.

 

[Raddave]

If you are looking for a replacement movement, Adrian could probably hook you up. Hes a great guy and hes got connections.

 

[Raddave]

I just refurbed a tc 2824 and I have to say I was not impressed. More trouble with that movement than anything else I have overhauled.

Good call on the gen ETA.

What problems did you see with the TC unit?

 

[xmartin86x]

Raddave: Adrian is ado213?

 

[Raddave]

Raddave: Adrian is ado213?

correct