So, you want to find the best replica watch? Here are a few things that need to be said first.
Start here, and become familiar with lots of great information about the forum!
https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/replica-faq
Even Gen watches can come with defects.
Not all of them are perfect, which has been documented on various gen watch forums. If you're looking for perfection, this is the wrong hobby for you. If on the other hand you enjoy a challenge, then this could be the perfect hobby for you.
Vintage car restorers will often use "replica" parts to rebuild their dream car, some of us just start off with the replica parts and add gen to them. If going that route, doing your homework will be even more important as there are some reps that will accept gen parts without much work, where others will not.
No dealer and very few sellers if any are going to hand you a perfect replica.
Factories are in the business of producing products, dealers are in the business of selling them. That's how they make a profit, which enables them to continue to offer the service they do. The best way to make a profit is to offer several versions of the same popular watch, then reissue that watch in several more "updated" versions. It's rare that a V1 will be the best and most accurate version. Some very popular watches will have years worth of variations. This year, there are factories that are willing to go the extra mile and make an incredibly close 1:1 accurate version.
Replica watch factories are just that. Factories.
Their job is to produce a replica that passes for the real thing, not to re-create the real thing. This means that chances are real good that your watch will not be water proof, and may have some issues when you get it. Keep this in mind when you jump into this hobby. I highly recommend that you figure into your budget the cost of sending your watch to a watchsmith who can go through it for you to ensure all is well, and can give the seals the proper greasing they need to keep things safe. It's also a good idea to have them check the crystal to ensure it's pressed in properly and check your bracelet links to make sure they're nice and tight.
Choose your dealer, not the rep.
Building a relationship with a dealer is like having your favorite bookie. Find one you like and work with them. They can get any watch that any other dealer sells 99.99% of the time. Some are excellent about being able to find reps that some others either don't carry or couldn't be bothered to find. There's nothing wrong with finding a watch on one dealers site, and sending an email or PM to another to source it for you. There's also nothing wrong with shopping around. Many dealers use the same factory generated photos to post on their site, so you may see the same photos of the same watch on different dealer sites. Please keep in mind that if one dealer is a few bucks less than your favorite dealer, don't sweat it, and don't be a cheap skate. If you decide to go with some unknown dealer because you can save $10, don't start whining when things don't work out, or you're dissatisfied.
The RWI Team is your best friend!
Part of the reward for being a member of this forum and dealing with our trusted dealers is that you have a group of people who are here to give you assistance if you find yourself dissatisfied with a transaction. You should make an effort to resolve your issue directly with the trusted dealer, and work things out using common sense. One thing that will not be helpful is being a noob who thinks that starting a "Don't deal with so-n-so thread THEY SUCK!" thread will get you anywhere- it won't. If someone doesn't beat you over the head for doing things that way, I will. Contact a mod for assistance, you'll be very impressed at how things can be straightened out by taking that route.
This is a hobby.
If you take it too seriously or your expectations are too high, you will always be disappointed. If, on the other hand, you see this hobby as a challenge to achieve a watch that reaches near perfection, then let the hunt begin!
How to pick the right watch for you...
Asking others to decide which watch is right for you is like asking someone to pick out your underwear. Only you can really decide. Most people already have an idea what works for them and what doesn't. One of the best ways to find a watch you like- join a gen forum such as WatchUSeek and start going through the various sections. Read a little about what people are saying about their watches and take a look at their wrist shots.
Consider how you're going to use your watch. Many people purchase on because it looks pretty, but find out later that it really isn't practical for their needs. A watch is a tool for telling time. There's no need to go out and purchase a bulldozer when a leaf blower will do just fine.
Note: When joining gen forums, use a different username and avatar. You don't want to get a reputation as a rep owner on a gen forum, things will get unpleasant- especially on The Rolex Forum!
Still not sure? Plenty of forums have wrist shot of the day threads. Take a look through them and see if anything trips your trigger.
You've found the watch you want a rep of, now what?
Do your homework. Educate yourself. Start by researching your watch on the gen forum and doing a Google Image search. Since you've been on the gen forum already, let's talk about Google Image search.
If you don't use specific descriptions, you're going to get a lot of stuff you don't want. This is only good if you're looking for a bunch of options for the same model. The advantage of being vague is that you can easily find other styles that closely match something you're interested in.
This is where having a model number or defined description (or key words) will come in handy. On the left hand side, you'll notice there's an option to search for large images. This really comes in handy to shorten your searches but keep in mind that if you don't find the images you're looking for, go back to the regular image search.
Once you find that must have watch, start a folder on your computer. Start searching for images of the watch you want and save them in a sub-folder called Gen. Use Google Image search for large photos, and use various terms like lume, dial, crystal.. etc.
Another great source for finding reference information are eBay listings. These people are looking to sell something and many of them have taken the time to include information that goes with the product.
Franken Watches.
If you're serious about owning a perfect rep, then creating one using gen parts is the way to go. Let's assume that the watch you decide to go with will accept gen parts with no or some modification. eBay is a great place to see if the parts you need will be available, and give you an idea how much to expect to invest in your project.
Can't afford gen parts? You may be able to find replacement parts that are as good or nearly as good at a fraction of the price. Forum build threads are a great place to learn more about these things, as well as franken watch sales threads.
Two very important notes!
Look at the links the images are associated with. There are several sites that are set up to try to install virus scan software. This is true of many image searches you'll do, not just for watches.
The image search may also show results for replica watches, just make sure you know the difference. Again, be aware of the sites the images are hosted on, many of them will have replica watermarks on them anyway.
As you start doing this, you'll become very familiar with the rep you want to own. You will also begin learning more than most gen owners know about their own watches. When doing this though, keep in mind that the watch you may be looking for may have several different versions. As is the case with Rolex, many of the popular versions have undergone several slight and not so slight modifications.
Start comparing...
If you have Photoshop, great, if not, then just open the gen and rep folders separately and start comparing.
Many dealers often have more than one version of a popular watch. Do not be enticed by the watch description. Again, they are in the business of selling. They are not going to write descriptions like "This is kinda close, but could be better. The crown guards on this watch are way off, and we doubt that you'll ever find a genuine version with a dial like this!"
Ack! Saving images is disabled!
Some sites like Perfect Clones have code built into their sites to disable right clicks. Oh dear.... what to do?
Well, if you're using Firefox (as you should!), then you can bypass this using a plugin called RightToClick. Install this plugin and your problem is solved.
Searching the forum
RWI has been around for quite some time and is filled with valuable information and reviews. Sometimes finding that information isn't easy unless you know how to cut through the weeds. The first thing you don't want to do is use a search key word like Rolex or Submariner- these will dilute your search to the point where it's not worth bothering. Instead, use key words that focus in on your desired search topic. Model numbers like our example "16610LV" makes a big difference.
If you want to narrow your searches, go to the advanced feature in the search box...
and enter your keywords using a plus, like this: 16610LV+review
Still can't find the info I'm looking for...
There are a couple options. You can post your questions on the forum or search the other rep forums. If you're going to post a question on the forum, do yourself and others a favor and don't start a thread with a title like "Help!" or "Looking for the watch" or "Where can I find the best Submariner?" If someone doesn't beat you over the head, I will. One of the things that will be very helpful is to include as much information as you can about what you're looking for. Posting images, links to what you have found, etc. will make it much easier, interesting and helpful for others who have the same question.
The Franken/Modification Option.
While doing your research on the forum, keep an eye out for threads where people have posted modifications to their rep watches. Some reps have the ability to be modified, especially with gen parts. This is not always the case, but there may be things that can be done that the factories fall short on. These things include trimming crown guards, replacing date wheels (disks) with gen or improved versions, purchasing gen parts like bezel inserts or crystals... depending on the watch you've chosen, there may also be places where you can purchase replacement parts that are made to better match the gen parts. Gen bracelets and straps are more likely the easiest to find and replace of all the parts.
This is a tricky area though. Replica watches are made to be similar, but there's little to no guarantee that any parts will be interchangeable with gen parts. Another option that you may find yourself looking at is taking the best of a V2 version and swapping it into a V3. Once you have done your homework and sourced the parts you need, there are a number of watchsmiths who can do the necessary work for you. This includes reluming your watch for even better performance and appearance.
Regarding the Ownership of a Replica.
Some information that may be helpful in answering questions regarding the ownership of counterfeit items. As I interpret the information cited below, I see no urgency in government action to be taken with those who own counterfeit items as they relate to the focus of this forum. You are at greater risk of getting a ticket for J-Walking or spitting on a sidewalk than you are of being held accountable for wearing a replica watch.
"There is nothing to show that Congress intended § 1117(b) to protect individual purchasers of counterfeit trademarked goods from liability. The third element of counterfeit trademark infringement supports this interpretation. The statute provides for civil liability for intentional use of a counterfeit mark “in connection with the sale, offering for sale or distribution of goods or services.â€[xci]By including the language “in connection with the sale,†Congress did not expressly limit liability to only those defendants who sell or distribute counterfeit goods.[xcii]While the court system has seen the prosecution of manufacturers and traffickers of counterfeit trademarks, no case has yet been brought against an individual purchaser for either civil or criminal liability.[xciii]"
Keep in mind that laws and protections against counterfeit items will vary from country to country, particularly France and Italy. Prosecuting owners of counterfeit items is not quite the priority it is in America as it has become in France. While there is no penalty in the States for mere possession of fake goods, the stakes are significantly higher in France: owning a knockoff can be punished by fines of up to €300,000 (roughly $300,000 at current exchange) or a prison sentence of up to three years.
"Due to the overwhelming reach of the counterfeit trademark market and the difficulty of enforcement based on the trade’s underground status, there is a need to implement and enforce civil liability for end consumer purchases of these goods. Other countries have already put laws in place to attach liability to consumers, which through heavy fines also acts as a deterrent. The United States should follow the examples of France and Italy and interpret § 1117(b) to account for consumers who purchase luxury goods bearing a counterfeit trademark without the intention of reselling the goods."
http://www.natlawreview.com/article/trademark-counterfeiting-and-individual-purchaser-liability
Trusted Replica Watch Dealers
Do all the research you want, but if you're not using one of our tried and true trusted replica watch dealers, then you're walking out into traffic with a blindfold on. Good luck with that. Just keep in mind that you may not have the same luck as the guy who makes it across and tells you it's OK.
Edit:
I'm adding this new information posted today from Angus at PureTime. This is a great explanation from a dealer about how things work on the other side of our hobby.
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I wanted to take the time to write a detailed breakdown of how the replica watch industry works for all of you. Doing this will result in all of you having a greater understanding of what we, as a replica watch company go through when processing your orders.
The information provided in this thread is largely the case for every other replica watch dealer based within China, therefore most of the points in this thread can be applied to most of the dealers on the forums. So whether you decide to buy from us or not, this thread will be an informative read for you.
Who are we and what do we do?
PureTime is a replica watch dealer. We are NOT a replica watch manufacturer. However we do work closely with the Noob factory and some other makers, we have a degree of involvement in what gets produced and the QC of the prototypes before the watch is mass-produced. Other dealers may or may not have their own close relationships with various other manufacturers, and whilst we are close with many other manufacturers, we are the closest with Noob (A.K.A. Mr. Crème De La Crème).
Factory Refund Policies:
1. We do not have a factory; we are located within an office within Guangzhou.
2. We do not hold stock of a watch UNLESS it is a best-selling and current watch. This means if a watch used to be a best seller, we won’t hold it in the office. This is to reduce potential losses, as the minute we get the watch from the maker, we must pay for it and it is non-refundable on our end.
3. As we mentioned in point 2, once the watch is in our office, we cannot get a refund on it. The best we can do is get an exchange but ONLY if the new watch you want is from the same maker or if your watch doesn’t pass QC.
Why does it sometimes take a long time for me to get QC pics of my order?
Each maker has its own way of working, and this is something we have no control over. At best we have a very limited scope of control as to what we can ask a maker to do. Ultimately they provide us with our products, being fully transparent, they wear the trousers in the relationship.
Bearing this in mind, some makers take longer to either assemble our order (which we then pass onto you) or to deliver the order to our office (some makers will deliver to us, some will not). This affects the timeframe in which we can receive your watch. It also means (if they have delivered the watch to us) that if your watch has a defect it takes even longer for us to get you QC pics, as we have to wait for the maker to re-deliver the watch to our office. In all honesty, the makers produce many watches, with quite a few of them not being up to our standard (hence all dealers on the forums having to implement their own QC procedures).
We are not deliberately being slow, or lazy, or anything of the sort, but as I said, we have a limited scope as to how far we can push a maker to improve their own policies before they tell us to… f*ck off.
How come when I order a watch, I get informed that it is out of stock AFTER I have paid?
Within this industry it is near impossible to update the website to inform ahead of time whether a watch is out of stock or not. The makers produce what they want, when they want and it always depends on what are the best selling watches CURRENTLY.
If we would even attempt to keep a continuous update on our website of what is and isn’t in stock, it would be a full time job for a few people to do, not only on our end, but also on the makers end.
This isn’t to say that an old watch won’t be in stock, it most likely is, but there are times where it isn’t and it is beyond our control to mark it as out of stock on the website beforehand.
How come when I order a backordered watch, it is sometimes hard for the PureTime staff to tell me when I can expect QC pictures of my watch?
This is largely down to 2 things:
1. The makers seldom tell us when they will give us more stock, and when they do inform us, it is usually only a few days before they deliver it to us.
2. The makers seldom tell us how many they will give us upon our next batch.
This means that if you have ordered ______ ? insert watch name here, and it is on backorder, and let’s say you are no38 on the waiting list, it is hard for us to tell you exactly when you will get QC pics from us. For all we know, the maker will deliver in 2 weeks time 20 pieces, which means you would have to wait for the next cycle.
Preorder and Backorder, the full breakdown:
Preorder: This is where we have been informed before the launch date of a watch approximately when we will be receiving it. We also at this time either get pictures of the finished watch or the prototype (and if the prototype, we inform what additional improvements will be made by the maker before its official release) or pictures of the finished model.
Preorder & Backorder: This is where the pre-sales have exceeded the amount of watches that have been allocated to us by the maker. This means that even before the watch is officially released, we are already out of stock and orders are being put on backorder.
Backorder: The watch is currently sold out and your order has been placed in queue (on the waiting list) for when we receive more stock and can fulfill your order.
What you SHOULD do: The moral of the story is to purchase the watch immediately. DO NOT wait until we have it back in stock, as a lot of the times if a watch is on preorder, it will sell out and go into a status of backorder before we have even got it. Then when a watch is on backorder, it could perpetually be on backorder until the hype and/or desire has died down (which is an unknown amount of time).
What you SHOULDN’T do: As we state in the above paragraph, DO NOT wait until a watch is back in stock. If you want the watch, order it, pay for it, then exercise patience.
How come responses from PureTime are sometimes slow?
We have an average of 500 emails passing through PureTime PER DAY (including Sunday, which is our day off). This is a large amount of emails to answer whilst we also all fulfill our other functions (QC’ing, pictures, videos, descriptions, forum posting, repairs, working with Noob, etc., etc.).
I am placing a big order, how come you can’t offer me a wholesale price or a big discount?
There is an awful lot of work to be done to keep this machine running, and in all honesty one could say that we should employ more people, but one must remember this is a business also, and profit and customer service are the most important things with any business. This means we always need to weigh things up, on the one hand we must maintain good customer service, but also a fair amount of profit. We already employ 10+ people (more than any other dealer) + rent of the office + bills + our Merchant Account takes 10% in fees and PayPal fees and so on and so forth. We must maintain a balance always, because, despite popular belief the profit on a watch isn’t huge, it certainly isn’t 100% or 50% like some people have proclaimed or assumed in the past over the forums.
When we offer incentives to pay via Western Union or Bank Transfer, it is simply because we want to pass our savings onto you. We offer a 10% discount for WU or BT because we save 10% in Merchant account fees. But we still keep the same amount of profit.
To be frank, our prices are already wholesale. There are scores of companies out there that will charge you $1000+ for a watch that we will sell to you for $300. We personally know quite a few companies that will sell a Rolex for $1200 that we sell on our site for just over $200.
We are incredibly grateful for your business, and if there is any chance to reward you further for your patronage, we will do it, however we hope you understand that this isn’t the money making machine that some people state it is and to not think of us, or any other dealer, as mean or money grabbing or anything like that, quite the contrary, all dealers on this forum are in the business for the passion also, not just the profit and therefore we keep our profits as low as possible and give you, our valued customers, a bargain.
How the average Maker (or Factory) works:
Now I am sure most of you have varied ideas of how a Maker (or Factory works). Some of you I am sure have conjured up some very interesting mental pictures of the actual look of a Factory. Unfortunately I cannot show you pictures, and even if I could, Makers have their own setup depending on what they produce.
The most important thing to understand is the word MAKER is more apt to describe the Makers of our watches; because that is what they are, in the truest sense. Makers make the watch, and COMMISSION OTHER FACTORIES to make each individual part, with the final assembly of the various parts occurring at the Makers shop.
As an example, this is how the process would go:
1. Maker decides to make a new PAM.
2. A Gen PAM is bought and then dissected.
3. The Maker will then approach different Factories to produce each part, such as a factory specializing in cases, bezels, crystals, hands & dials, straps, movements, etc.
4. Once the maker has commissioned all the Factories needed to produce each part, each individual factory will make a prototype (if needed, if they have never repped that certain part before for that make/model).
5. The prototype pieces get QC’ed by the Maker, and if up to par, get approved for mass production.
6. The Factories send the maker the amount of pieces the Maker commissioned the Factory for.
7. The Maker then takes all the parts and assembles the watch, ready to be released.
An important point to raise on the whole procedure is there are minimum production quantities for different parts, like the case factories' minimum order is 1000 pcs, crystal factory is 500 pcs, strap factory is 3000 pieces, etc., and due to different production abilities of different parts, they may only pass the parts to the Makers in batches As an example the first batch the Maker received all cases of 1000 pcs, but only 300 dials/hands, 500 straps, 500 movements, so the first batch of the certain watch is only 300 pcs because there are only 300 sets of dial/hands.
The above points and paragraph lead onto a few things, which directly affect all of us:
1. Sometimes when we ask the Maker if he has a watch in stock, he might not have it assembled but will have all the pieces in order to assemble it. This is an occasional reason why sometimes it takes a while before the watch is given to us.
2. Because these are assembled largely by hand, not all watches are uniform in terms of quality. This is the reason why we have to do our own QC. If an employee working at the Maker’s company is tired/lazy/not well/etc., etc. mistakes happen (none of us are perfect, you know what it’s like). An example would be someone assembling a watch with a scratched caseback.
3. When we ask the Maker if a watch is in stock, someone at the Maker’s company might confirm, thinking that all of the pieces required are in stock, and upon assembly find out that 1 part is missing, and therefore get back to us and state the watch is out of stock.
4. When a watch is out of stock, it is because all of the Factories are still completing the Maker’s order of ___ <- (insert number here) crystals, or bezels, or cases etc., etc. This is why it is hard to estimate at times. There is a whole chain of Factories that need to fulfill their part of the watch before the Maker can start assembling it.
So as you can see, the creation of a watch lies with many different Factories, who have been commissioned by the Maker. The Maker is the ideas man, the man who assesses the desire of a watch and then communicates with the various factories to see if the watch can be made, and to what standard. At that point, if it seems that the watch can be reproduced well, then the Maker will front the money and get the project going and done.
The Maker’s and Spare Parts:
The breakdown laid out above pretty much explains the subject of spare parts, however, to make it very clear:
1. If the Maker has spare parts, he might not want to sell them off, in case he has pending orders for a new batch of other parts to fulfill backorders.
2. If a watch is no longer in production, the Maker might not have spare parts from when he was producing it, and due to the fact that the Factories that produce the parts have high MOQs (minimum order quantities), parts for that no longer produced watch might be impossible to get ever again.
Usually we can get spare parts, but in the event that we can’t, I hope this explains why.
Summary:
We hope you have all found this helpful. Here at PureTime we felt the need to step up to the plate and invest the time in being fully transparent with you. We know and understand that the replica watch industry can sometimes be frustrating, and that almost all of you at one point have had a rocky time (whether with us or other dealers), but we hope this thread will serve its purpose in informing you as much as possible as to the mechanics of this industry, in the hopes that a greater understanding will lead to a more harmonious relationship between you and your China based dealer.
Thanks for reading!
Angus & The PureTime Team
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My own personal note, PureTime is one of the outstanding dealers we have available to us.
Hopefully this helps you to get started in finding the best replica watch you can find. Once you've found your watch, SHARE! Pics, a little info about the watch, your experience with the seller, and any links that might be helpful for others.
:cheers:
Start here, and become familiar with lots of great information about the forum!
https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/replica-faq
Even Gen watches can come with defects.
Not all of them are perfect, which has been documented on various gen watch forums. If you're looking for perfection, this is the wrong hobby for you. If on the other hand you enjoy a challenge, then this could be the perfect hobby for you.
Vintage car restorers will often use "replica" parts to rebuild their dream car, some of us just start off with the replica parts and add gen to them. If going that route, doing your homework will be even more important as there are some reps that will accept gen parts without much work, where others will not.
No dealer and very few sellers if any are going to hand you a perfect replica.
Factories are in the business of producing products, dealers are in the business of selling them. That's how they make a profit, which enables them to continue to offer the service they do. The best way to make a profit is to offer several versions of the same popular watch, then reissue that watch in several more "updated" versions. It's rare that a V1 will be the best and most accurate version. Some very popular watches will have years worth of variations. This year, there are factories that are willing to go the extra mile and make an incredibly close 1:1 accurate version.
Replica watch factories are just that. Factories.
Their job is to produce a replica that passes for the real thing, not to re-create the real thing. This means that chances are real good that your watch will not be water proof, and may have some issues when you get it. Keep this in mind when you jump into this hobby. I highly recommend that you figure into your budget the cost of sending your watch to a watchsmith who can go through it for you to ensure all is well, and can give the seals the proper greasing they need to keep things safe. It's also a good idea to have them check the crystal to ensure it's pressed in properly and check your bracelet links to make sure they're nice and tight.
Choose your dealer, not the rep.
Building a relationship with a dealer is like having your favorite bookie. Find one you like and work with them. They can get any watch that any other dealer sells 99.99% of the time. Some are excellent about being able to find reps that some others either don't carry or couldn't be bothered to find. There's nothing wrong with finding a watch on one dealers site, and sending an email or PM to another to source it for you. There's also nothing wrong with shopping around. Many dealers use the same factory generated photos to post on their site, so you may see the same photos of the same watch on different dealer sites. Please keep in mind that if one dealer is a few bucks less than your favorite dealer, don't sweat it, and don't be a cheap skate. If you decide to go with some unknown dealer because you can save $10, don't start whining when things don't work out, or you're dissatisfied.
The RWI Team is your best friend!
Part of the reward for being a member of this forum and dealing with our trusted dealers is that you have a group of people who are here to give you assistance if you find yourself dissatisfied with a transaction. You should make an effort to resolve your issue directly with the trusted dealer, and work things out using common sense. One thing that will not be helpful is being a noob who thinks that starting a "Don't deal with so-n-so thread THEY SUCK!" thread will get you anywhere- it won't. If someone doesn't beat you over the head for doing things that way, I will. Contact a mod for assistance, you'll be very impressed at how things can be straightened out by taking that route.
This is a hobby.
If you take it too seriously or your expectations are too high, you will always be disappointed. If, on the other hand, you see this hobby as a challenge to achieve a watch that reaches near perfection, then let the hunt begin!
How to pick the right watch for you...
Asking others to decide which watch is right for you is like asking someone to pick out your underwear. Only you can really decide. Most people already have an idea what works for them and what doesn't. One of the best ways to find a watch you like- join a gen forum such as WatchUSeek and start going through the various sections. Read a little about what people are saying about their watches and take a look at their wrist shots.
Consider how you're going to use your watch. Many people purchase on because it looks pretty, but find out later that it really isn't practical for their needs. A watch is a tool for telling time. There's no need to go out and purchase a bulldozer when a leaf blower will do just fine.
Note: When joining gen forums, use a different username and avatar. You don't want to get a reputation as a rep owner on a gen forum, things will get unpleasant- especially on The Rolex Forum!
Still not sure? Plenty of forums have wrist shot of the day threads. Take a look through them and see if anything trips your trigger.
You've found the watch you want a rep of, now what?
Do your homework. Educate yourself. Start by researching your watch on the gen forum and doing a Google Image search. Since you've been on the gen forum already, let's talk about Google Image search.
If you don't use specific descriptions, you're going to get a lot of stuff you don't want. This is only good if you're looking for a bunch of options for the same model. The advantage of being vague is that you can easily find other styles that closely match something you're interested in.
This is where having a model number or defined description (or key words) will come in handy. On the left hand side, you'll notice there's an option to search for large images. This really comes in handy to shorten your searches but keep in mind that if you don't find the images you're looking for, go back to the regular image search.
Once you find that must have watch, start a folder on your computer. Start searching for images of the watch you want and save them in a sub-folder called Gen. Use Google Image search for large photos, and use various terms like lume, dial, crystal.. etc.
Another great source for finding reference information are eBay listings. These people are looking to sell something and many of them have taken the time to include information that goes with the product.
Franken Watches.
If you're serious about owning a perfect rep, then creating one using gen parts is the way to go. Let's assume that the watch you decide to go with will accept gen parts with no or some modification. eBay is a great place to see if the parts you need will be available, and give you an idea how much to expect to invest in your project.
Can't afford gen parts? You may be able to find replacement parts that are as good or nearly as good at a fraction of the price. Forum build threads are a great place to learn more about these things, as well as franken watch sales threads.
Two very important notes!
Look at the links the images are associated with. There are several sites that are set up to try to install virus scan software. This is true of many image searches you'll do, not just for watches.
The image search may also show results for replica watches, just make sure you know the difference. Again, be aware of the sites the images are hosted on, many of them will have replica watermarks on them anyway.
As you start doing this, you'll become very familiar with the rep you want to own. You will also begin learning more than most gen owners know about their own watches. When doing this though, keep in mind that the watch you may be looking for may have several different versions. As is the case with Rolex, many of the popular versions have undergone several slight and not so slight modifications.
Start comparing...
If you have Photoshop, great, if not, then just open the gen and rep folders separately and start comparing.
Many dealers often have more than one version of a popular watch. Do not be enticed by the watch description. Again, they are in the business of selling. They are not going to write descriptions like "This is kinda close, but could be better. The crown guards on this watch are way off, and we doubt that you'll ever find a genuine version with a dial like this!"
Ack! Saving images is disabled!
Some sites like Perfect Clones have code built into their sites to disable right clicks. Oh dear.... what to do?
Well, if you're using Firefox (as you should!), then you can bypass this using a plugin called RightToClick. Install this plugin and your problem is solved.
Searching the forum
RWI has been around for quite some time and is filled with valuable information and reviews. Sometimes finding that information isn't easy unless you know how to cut through the weeds. The first thing you don't want to do is use a search key word like Rolex or Submariner- these will dilute your search to the point where it's not worth bothering. Instead, use key words that focus in on your desired search topic. Model numbers like our example "16610LV" makes a big difference.
If you want to narrow your searches, go to the advanced feature in the search box...
and enter your keywords using a plus, like this: 16610LV+review
Still can't find the info I'm looking for...
There are a couple options. You can post your questions on the forum or search the other rep forums. If you're going to post a question on the forum, do yourself and others a favor and don't start a thread with a title like "Help!" or "Looking for the watch" or "Where can I find the best Submariner?" If someone doesn't beat you over the head, I will. One of the things that will be very helpful is to include as much information as you can about what you're looking for. Posting images, links to what you have found, etc. will make it much easier, interesting and helpful for others who have the same question.
The Franken/Modification Option.
While doing your research on the forum, keep an eye out for threads where people have posted modifications to their rep watches. Some reps have the ability to be modified, especially with gen parts. This is not always the case, but there may be things that can be done that the factories fall short on. These things include trimming crown guards, replacing date wheels (disks) with gen or improved versions, purchasing gen parts like bezel inserts or crystals... depending on the watch you've chosen, there may also be places where you can purchase replacement parts that are made to better match the gen parts. Gen bracelets and straps are more likely the easiest to find and replace of all the parts.
This is a tricky area though. Replica watches are made to be similar, but there's little to no guarantee that any parts will be interchangeable with gen parts. Another option that you may find yourself looking at is taking the best of a V2 version and swapping it into a V3. Once you have done your homework and sourced the parts you need, there are a number of watchsmiths who can do the necessary work for you. This includes reluming your watch for even better performance and appearance.
Regarding the Ownership of a Replica.
Some information that may be helpful in answering questions regarding the ownership of counterfeit items. As I interpret the information cited below, I see no urgency in government action to be taken with those who own counterfeit items as they relate to the focus of this forum. You are at greater risk of getting a ticket for J-Walking or spitting on a sidewalk than you are of being held accountable for wearing a replica watch.
"There is nothing to show that Congress intended § 1117(b) to protect individual purchasers of counterfeit trademarked goods from liability. The third element of counterfeit trademark infringement supports this interpretation. The statute provides for civil liability for intentional use of a counterfeit mark “in connection with the sale, offering for sale or distribution of goods or services.â€[xci]By including the language “in connection with the sale,†Congress did not expressly limit liability to only those defendants who sell or distribute counterfeit goods.[xcii]While the court system has seen the prosecution of manufacturers and traffickers of counterfeit trademarks, no case has yet been brought against an individual purchaser for either civil or criminal liability.[xciii]"
Keep in mind that laws and protections against counterfeit items will vary from country to country, particularly France and Italy. Prosecuting owners of counterfeit items is not quite the priority it is in America as it has become in France. While there is no penalty in the States for mere possession of fake goods, the stakes are significantly higher in France: owning a knockoff can be punished by fines of up to €300,000 (roughly $300,000 at current exchange) or a prison sentence of up to three years.
"Due to the overwhelming reach of the counterfeit trademark market and the difficulty of enforcement based on the trade’s underground status, there is a need to implement and enforce civil liability for end consumer purchases of these goods. Other countries have already put laws in place to attach liability to consumers, which through heavy fines also acts as a deterrent. The United States should follow the examples of France and Italy and interpret § 1117(b) to account for consumers who purchase luxury goods bearing a counterfeit trademark without the intention of reselling the goods."
http://www.natlawreview.com/article/trademark-counterfeiting-and-individual-purchaser-liability
Trusted Replica Watch Dealers
Do all the research you want, but if you're not using one of our tried and true trusted replica watch dealers, then you're walking out into traffic with a blindfold on. Good luck with that. Just keep in mind that you may not have the same luck as the guy who makes it across and tells you it's OK.
Edit:
I'm adding this new information posted today from Angus at PureTime. This is a great explanation from a dealer about how things work on the other side of our hobby.
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I wanted to take the time to write a detailed breakdown of how the replica watch industry works for all of you. Doing this will result in all of you having a greater understanding of what we, as a replica watch company go through when processing your orders.
The information provided in this thread is largely the case for every other replica watch dealer based within China, therefore most of the points in this thread can be applied to most of the dealers on the forums. So whether you decide to buy from us or not, this thread will be an informative read for you.
Who are we and what do we do?
PureTime is a replica watch dealer. We are NOT a replica watch manufacturer. However we do work closely with the Noob factory and some other makers, we have a degree of involvement in what gets produced and the QC of the prototypes before the watch is mass-produced. Other dealers may or may not have their own close relationships with various other manufacturers, and whilst we are close with many other manufacturers, we are the closest with Noob (A.K.A. Mr. Crème De La Crème).
Bearing the above paragraph in mind, this means a few things…
Factory Refund Policies:
1. We do not have a factory; we are located within an office within Guangzhou.
2. We do not hold stock of a watch UNLESS it is a best-selling and current watch. This means if a watch used to be a best seller, we won’t hold it in the office. This is to reduce potential losses, as the minute we get the watch from the maker, we must pay for it and it is non-refundable on our end.
3. As we mentioned in point 2, once the watch is in our office, we cannot get a refund on it. The best we can do is get an exchange but ONLY if the new watch you want is from the same maker or if your watch doesn’t pass QC.
Why does it sometimes take a long time for me to get QC pics of my order?
Each maker has its own way of working, and this is something we have no control over. At best we have a very limited scope of control as to what we can ask a maker to do. Ultimately they provide us with our products, being fully transparent, they wear the trousers in the relationship.
Bearing this in mind, some makers take longer to either assemble our order (which we then pass onto you) or to deliver the order to our office (some makers will deliver to us, some will not). This affects the timeframe in which we can receive your watch. It also means (if they have delivered the watch to us) that if your watch has a defect it takes even longer for us to get you QC pics, as we have to wait for the maker to re-deliver the watch to our office. In all honesty, the makers produce many watches, with quite a few of them not being up to our standard (hence all dealers on the forums having to implement their own QC procedures).
We are not deliberately being slow, or lazy, or anything of the sort, but as I said, we have a limited scope as to how far we can push a maker to improve their own policies before they tell us to… f*ck off.
How come when I order a watch, I get informed that it is out of stock AFTER I have paid?
Within this industry it is near impossible to update the website to inform ahead of time whether a watch is out of stock or not. The makers produce what they want, when they want and it always depends on what are the best selling watches CURRENTLY.
If we would even attempt to keep a continuous update on our website of what is and isn’t in stock, it would be a full time job for a few people to do, not only on our end, but also on the makers end.
This isn’t to say that an old watch won’t be in stock, it most likely is, but there are times where it isn’t and it is beyond our control to mark it as out of stock on the website beforehand.
How come when I order a backordered watch, it is sometimes hard for the PureTime staff to tell me when I can expect QC pictures of my watch?
This is largely down to 2 things:
1. The makers seldom tell us when they will give us more stock, and when they do inform us, it is usually only a few days before they deliver it to us.
2. The makers seldom tell us how many they will give us upon our next batch.
This means that if you have ordered ______ ? insert watch name here, and it is on backorder, and let’s say you are no38 on the waiting list, it is hard for us to tell you exactly when you will get QC pics from us. For all we know, the maker will deliver in 2 weeks time 20 pieces, which means you would have to wait for the next cycle.
Preorder and Backorder, the full breakdown:
Preorder: This is where we have been informed before the launch date of a watch approximately when we will be receiving it. We also at this time either get pictures of the finished watch or the prototype (and if the prototype, we inform what additional improvements will be made by the maker before its official release) or pictures of the finished model.
Preorder & Backorder: This is where the pre-sales have exceeded the amount of watches that have been allocated to us by the maker. This means that even before the watch is officially released, we are already out of stock and orders are being put on backorder.
Backorder: The watch is currently sold out and your order has been placed in queue (on the waiting list) for when we receive more stock and can fulfill your order.
What you SHOULD do: The moral of the story is to purchase the watch immediately. DO NOT wait until we have it back in stock, as a lot of the times if a watch is on preorder, it will sell out and go into a status of backorder before we have even got it. Then when a watch is on backorder, it could perpetually be on backorder until the hype and/or desire has died down (which is an unknown amount of time).
What you SHOULDN’T do: As we state in the above paragraph, DO NOT wait until a watch is back in stock. If you want the watch, order it, pay for it, then exercise patience.
How come responses from PureTime are sometimes slow?
We have an average of 500 emails passing through PureTime PER DAY (including Sunday, which is our day off). This is a large amount of emails to answer whilst we also all fulfill our other functions (QC’ing, pictures, videos, descriptions, forum posting, repairs, working with Noob, etc., etc.).
I am placing a big order, how come you can’t offer me a wholesale price or a big discount?
There is an awful lot of work to be done to keep this machine running, and in all honesty one could say that we should employ more people, but one must remember this is a business also, and profit and customer service are the most important things with any business. This means we always need to weigh things up, on the one hand we must maintain good customer service, but also a fair amount of profit. We already employ 10+ people (more than any other dealer) + rent of the office + bills + our Merchant Account takes 10% in fees and PayPal fees and so on and so forth. We must maintain a balance always, because, despite popular belief the profit on a watch isn’t huge, it certainly isn’t 100% or 50% like some people have proclaimed or assumed in the past over the forums.
When we offer incentives to pay via Western Union or Bank Transfer, it is simply because we want to pass our savings onto you. We offer a 10% discount for WU or BT because we save 10% in Merchant account fees. But we still keep the same amount of profit.
To be frank, our prices are already wholesale. There are scores of companies out there that will charge you $1000+ for a watch that we will sell to you for $300. We personally know quite a few companies that will sell a Rolex for $1200 that we sell on our site for just over $200.
We are incredibly grateful for your business, and if there is any chance to reward you further for your patronage, we will do it, however we hope you understand that this isn’t the money making machine that some people state it is and to not think of us, or any other dealer, as mean or money grabbing or anything like that, quite the contrary, all dealers on this forum are in the business for the passion also, not just the profit and therefore we keep our profits as low as possible and give you, our valued customers, a bargain.
How the average Maker (or Factory) works:
Now I am sure most of you have varied ideas of how a Maker (or Factory works). Some of you I am sure have conjured up some very interesting mental pictures of the actual look of a Factory. Unfortunately I cannot show you pictures, and even if I could, Makers have their own setup depending on what they produce.
The most important thing to understand is the word MAKER is more apt to describe the Makers of our watches; because that is what they are, in the truest sense. Makers make the watch, and COMMISSION OTHER FACTORIES to make each individual part, with the final assembly of the various parts occurring at the Makers shop.
As an example, this is how the process would go:
1. Maker decides to make a new PAM.
2. A Gen PAM is bought and then dissected.
3. The Maker will then approach different Factories to produce each part, such as a factory specializing in cases, bezels, crystals, hands & dials, straps, movements, etc.
4. Once the maker has commissioned all the Factories needed to produce each part, each individual factory will make a prototype (if needed, if they have never repped that certain part before for that make/model).
5. The prototype pieces get QC’ed by the Maker, and if up to par, get approved for mass production.
6. The Factories send the maker the amount of pieces the Maker commissioned the Factory for.
7. The Maker then takes all the parts and assembles the watch, ready to be released.
An important point to raise on the whole procedure is there are minimum production quantities for different parts, like the case factories' minimum order is 1000 pcs, crystal factory is 500 pcs, strap factory is 3000 pieces, etc., and due to different production abilities of different parts, they may only pass the parts to the Makers in batches As an example the first batch the Maker received all cases of 1000 pcs, but only 300 dials/hands, 500 straps, 500 movements, so the first batch of the certain watch is only 300 pcs because there are only 300 sets of dial/hands.
The above points and paragraph lead onto a few things, which directly affect all of us:
1. Sometimes when we ask the Maker if he has a watch in stock, he might not have it assembled but will have all the pieces in order to assemble it. This is an occasional reason why sometimes it takes a while before the watch is given to us.
2. Because these are assembled largely by hand, not all watches are uniform in terms of quality. This is the reason why we have to do our own QC. If an employee working at the Maker’s company is tired/lazy/not well/etc., etc. mistakes happen (none of us are perfect, you know what it’s like). An example would be someone assembling a watch with a scratched caseback.
3. When we ask the Maker if a watch is in stock, someone at the Maker’s company might confirm, thinking that all of the pieces required are in stock, and upon assembly find out that 1 part is missing, and therefore get back to us and state the watch is out of stock.
4. When a watch is out of stock, it is because all of the Factories are still completing the Maker’s order of ___ <- (insert number here) crystals, or bezels, or cases etc., etc. This is why it is hard to estimate at times. There is a whole chain of Factories that need to fulfill their part of the watch before the Maker can start assembling it.
So as you can see, the creation of a watch lies with many different Factories, who have been commissioned by the Maker. The Maker is the ideas man, the man who assesses the desire of a watch and then communicates with the various factories to see if the watch can be made, and to what standard. At that point, if it seems that the watch can be reproduced well, then the Maker will front the money and get the project going and done.
The Maker’s and Spare Parts:
The breakdown laid out above pretty much explains the subject of spare parts, however, to make it very clear:
1. If the Maker has spare parts, he might not want to sell them off, in case he has pending orders for a new batch of other parts to fulfill backorders.
2. If a watch is no longer in production, the Maker might not have spare parts from when he was producing it, and due to the fact that the Factories that produce the parts have high MOQs (minimum order quantities), parts for that no longer produced watch might be impossible to get ever again.
Usually we can get spare parts, but in the event that we can’t, I hope this explains why.
Summary:
We hope you have all found this helpful. Here at PureTime we felt the need to step up to the plate and invest the time in being fully transparent with you. We know and understand that the replica watch industry can sometimes be frustrating, and that almost all of you at one point have had a rocky time (whether with us or other dealers), but we hope this thread will serve its purpose in informing you as much as possible as to the mechanics of this industry, in the hopes that a greater understanding will lead to a more harmonious relationship between you and your China based dealer.
Thanks for reading!
Angus & The PureTime Team
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My own personal note, PureTime is one of the outstanding dealers we have available to us.
Hopefully this helps you to get started in finding the best replica watch you can find. Once you've found your watch, SHARE! Pics, a little info about the watch, your experience with the seller, and any links that might be helpful for others.
:cheers:
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