Automatic Movements Reliability........Who knows??

[Oakley]

Hi

I am considering my first Panerai Rep and must confess I know absolutely nothing about the movements the various factories are using. I would prefer an automatic movement over a manual wind.
I am sure we have some Panerai Gurus here that can help by sharing their knowledge. Basically I am trying to establish what would be considered the most reliable automatic movement/easiest to fix if it goes wrong and are any interchangeable with any Swiss ETA movements. I have noticed Trusty promote the P.9010 movement as being tested for 1 year but then that doesn't always mean too much.
Any help would be immensely appreciated so thanks in advance.

 

[KOT1917]

Hello!

There are a lot of Panerai with AW, and different models have different movts throughout the time.

If we talk about what can be bought new from TD, then all AW panerai from VSF will have a P.9000 / P.9001 clone (in case of GMT 12 hours function).
They will simply be labeled P.9010, P.9011, P.900, or OP.XXXIV depending on which one uses the GEN model.

This is a well-known clone, noisy in places, but not nearly worse and not better than any other AW clone, there are no special problems with it.
But this is a specially designed movement that shares some details with the existing Asian movts, but in general it is independent, therefore, spare parts are always additional complexity.
RWI specialists know how to maintain it, but at the local level this can be a problem.
It is NOT interchangeable with SWISS movts, apart from the in-house movements panerai, which are unlikely to be available.

If we consider old models, then there are many private examples, but the main option for you is models using OP.II it is a machine with date and small second, used for models such as PAM104, PAM299, PAM064, for example, which, in fact, are А7750 without a chronograph, and are interchangeable with swiss, but also quite working, reliable and maintainable on their own.
Also these are models of chronographs on OP.XII such as PAM224, PAM250, PAM187,etc.,they are, in fact, models with the A7753, which are interchangeable with SWISS with minimal modifications on some hands.

Otherwise, models that should have an in-house P.9000 may work, but the reps are made with the A7750 and the decorative plate. In these cases, you will not get the functions of gen caliber, and the appearance suffers if this is a model with a transparent caseback, because the position of the balance wheel is not correct, but it is possible to put a swiss 7750 there, for example, in PAM389 or PAM364 from V6F.

The same models can be equipped with the ST2555, which is cheap and easily changed in the event of a breakdown, but it will not be possible to replace it with a swiss.

Well, very old reps in some cases could have A / SWISS movements, like PAM027, PAM028, PAM057, PAM029, PAM023, PAM063 and some others. But if you get involved with their search, then the first PAM, you may not get this year.

To summarize:
- Do you want a new one? Buy any, it will be with a P.9000 clone, there is nowhere to go, but that's okay.
- Do you want m2m? Buy any with movt. Derived from 7750/7753, but in GMT and Power reserve cases (OP.VIII and OP.IX) you won't swiss swap.

The rep panerai have no frankly weak and bad movement.

 

[Oakley]

Hello!

There are a lot of Panerai with AW, and different models have different movts throughout the time.

If we talk about what can be bought new from TD, then all AW panerai from VSF will have a P.9000 / P.9001 clone (in case of GMT 12 hours function).
They will simply be labeled P.9010, P.9011, P.900, or OP.XXXIV depending on which one uses the GEN model.

This is a well-known clone, noisy in places, but not nearly worse and not better than any other AW clone, there are no special problems with it.
But this is a specially designed movement that shares some details with the existing Asian movts, but in general it is independent, therefore, spare parts are always additional complexity.
RWI specialists know how to maintain it, but at the local level this can be a problem.
It is NOT interchangeable with SWISS movts, apart from the in-house movements panerai, which are unlikely to be available.

If we consider old models, then there are many private examples, but the main option for you is models using OP.II it is a machine with date and small second, used for models such as PAM104, PAM299, PAM064, for example, which, in fact, are А7750 without a chronograph, and are interchangeable with swiss, but also quite working, reliable and maintainable on their own.
Also these are models of chronographs on OP.XII such as PAM224, PAM250, PAM187,etc.,they are, in fact, models with the A7753, which are interchangeable with SWISS with minimal modifications on some hands.

Otherwise, models that should have an in-house P.9000 may work, but the reps are made with the A7750 and the decorative plate. In these cases, you will not get the functions of gen caliber, and the appearance suffers if this is a model with a transparent caseback, because the position of the balance wheel is not correct, but it is possible to put a swiss 7750 there, for example, in PAM389 or PAM364 from V6F.

The same models can be equipped with the ST2555, which is cheap and easily changed in the event of a breakdown, but it will not be possible to replace it with a swiss.

Well, very old reps in some cases could have A / SWISS movements, like PAM027, PAM028, PAM057, PAM029, PAM023, PAM063 and some others. But if you get involved with their search, then the first PAM, you may not get this year.

To summarize:
- Do you want a new one? Buy any, it will be with a P.9000 clone, there is nowhere to go, but that's okay.
- Do you want m2m? Buy any with movt. Derived from 7750/7753, but in GMT and Power reserve cases (OP.VIII and OP.IX) you won't swiss swap.

The rep panerai have no frankly weak and bad movement.

Hi

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. This is exactly the information I was hoping for.
So basically to summarise:

P.9000 clones are fairly stable but if they break repair is an issue due to unavailability of Gen parts?
7750/7753 are also fairly stable but if they break Swiss ETA parts can be used?

Final question: Are there any independent manufacturers of Generic parts for the P.9000 movements?

Thanks again for your help and best regards

 

[KOT1917]

You're welcome.

The points:
- Yes, the p.9000 VSF clone is quite reliable, like any other Asian movement, he has no constructive problems.
- Repairs can be complicated by missing REP parts. The gen details are not useful here, and you can hardly get them.
- 7750/7753 are stable, and do not require intervention on their own, except when they are in the hands of the person who carries out the prevention of any movt., Upon receipt, for peace of mind. I've had 7750 models that have never been serviced for 10+ years, and everything is fine with them.
- Which parts of the 7750/7753 are interchangeable with swiss, you better check in the technical section. Like any other ETA clone, everything is the same, but no details may vary. If you want to be calm, put the whole 7750/77523 swiss. It is perceptible, but not very expensive.
- No, I've never heard of independent manufacturers. Gen only does panerai, rep does only VSF.

In general, you got it right, just throw out everything about gen movement and gen movement spare parts from the equation.

 

[Oakley]

You're welcome.

The points:
- Yes, the p.9000 VSF clone is quite reliable, like any other Asian movement, he has no constructive problems.
- Repairs can be complicated by missing REP parts. The gen details are not useful here, and you can hardly get them.
- 7750/7753 are stable, and do not require intervention on their own, except when they are in the hands of the person who carries out the prevention of any movt., Upon receipt, for peace of mind. I've had 7750 models that have never been serviced for 10+ years, and everything is fine with them.
- Which parts of the 7750/7753 are interchangeable with swiss, you better check in the technical section. Like any other ETA clone, everything is the same, but no details may vary. If you want to be calm, put the whole 7750/77523 swiss. It is perceptible, but not very expensive.
- No, I've never heard of independent manufacturers. Gen only does panerai, rep does only VSF.

In general, you got it right, just throw out everything about gen movement and gen movement spare parts from the equation.

OK thank you again, you have been a great help so much appreciated.

:thumbup:

 

[KOT1917]

You are welcome.
I wish you an easy choice and good pams!