Are Free-Sprung Balances in Roger Dubuis Excalibur RDDBEX0393 and Sports Tourbillon Replicated? Visible via Sapphire Case Back?

[TT1000]

Hi RWI community,
I'm diving into the details of two Roger Dubuis Excalibur models: the RDDBEX0393 (Excalibur 42 Skeleton Flying Tourbillon) and the Excalibur Sports Tourbillon (e.g., models like the Spider Pirelli). I understand both feature a free-sprung balance in their movements (RD505SQ and RD508SQ, respectively), which is a hallmark of their high-end craftsmanship. Additionally, both seem to have skeletonized dials and sapphire case backs, making the movement visible.
I’m curious about the replica scene for these models and have two specific questions for the experts here:
Do high-end replicas of these Excalibur models attempt to replicate the free-sprung balance in their movements? Or do they typically use simpler movements that lack this feature, making it a giveaway for spotting fakes?

Since these models have sapphire case backs, can the free-sprung balance (or lack thereof in reps) be easily observed through the case back? Are there specific visual cues to differentiate a genuine free-sprung balance from a replica’s imitation?

Any insights, experiences, or side-by-side comparisons with these models would be greatly appreciated! I’m trying to understand how accurate replicas are in mimicking this technical detail and whether the sapphire case back makes it easier to spot fakes. Thanks in advance for your expertise!

 

[Horace_Derwent]

Wow, this is really a specific question...im interested to know myself.

 

[Reaps]

No out of the box replicas have free sprungs, all regulator arms. Some expectations have to be set when buying a $700 complicated skeleton rep mimicking a $80,000 gen.

 

[Rx4Time]

Doesn't one of the patek superclone movements have a real free sprung balance? I think it's like $3k for the rep....let me look. Beyond this one instance, none have anything beyond the regulator arm, and honestly for simplicity, I prefer that. Easier to regulate if needed.


yes, here is the exception:

Cal. 324 free spring balance

Amazing developments, crazy how far the rep game has come.

forum.replica-watch.info

 

[Reaps]

Doesn't one of the patek superclone movements have a real free sprung balance? I think it's like $3k for the rep....let me look. Beyond this one instance, none have anything beyond the regulator arm, and honestly for simplicity, I prefer that. Easier to regulate if needed.

Yes, there's always nuance if you look deeper. I think I just talk about general OOTB replicas

ACE 240 and 324. But I don't consider that really out of the box. It's a 3k+ modded after market rep that requires modders to work on the watch. There's also the ACE 4130 with similar but that's also a modded movement, this also runs 2-3k+.

You can also have RM Vaucher Clones and varying level of RM movement with free sprung the run $3-$20k depending on the level.

Not to mention gen balance swaps on Rolex VS movements.

But otherwise 99.99% of standard reps use regulator arms.

 

[Rx4Time]

Yes, there's always nuance if you look deeper. I think I just talk about general OOTB replicas

ACE 240 and 324. But I don't consider that really out of the box. It's a 3k+ modded after market rep that requires modders to work on the watch. There's also the ACE 4130 with similar but that's also a modded movement, this also runs 2-3k+.

You can also have RM Vaucher Clones and varying level of RM movement with free sprung the run $3-$20k depending on the level.

Not to mention gen balance swaps on Rolex VS movements.

But otherwise 99.99% of standard reps use regulator arms.

Agreed. Your statement is dead on. I just wanted to push the one most commonly discussed oddball into the light but off to the side.

 

[TT1000]

No out of the box replicas have free sprungs, all regulator arms. Some expectations have to be set when buying a $700 complicated skeleton rep mimicking a $80,000 gen.

yes, I understand what you mean and agree. I would not expect the same mechanism in a replica. I Just wanted to make sure that as I am looking for a good replica with low chances of being called out, I should avoid transparent cases in mechanisms with free-sprungs, or at least, if there is a free-sprung involved i need to look at a closed back case as the RM035-01. Thanks to everyone

 

[Reaps]

yes, I understand what you mean and agree. I would not expect the same mechanism in a replica. I Just wanted to make sure that as I am looking for a good replica with low chances of being called out, I should avoid transparent cases in mechanisms with free-sprungs, or at least, if there is a free-sprung involved i need to look at a closed back case as the RM035-01. Thanks to everyone

My honest opinion : this kind of thing shouldnt matter. These watches you highlight are 80k to 300k. People will not look at the watch for authenticity, they look at you, your social status, income.... unless you're raking in multi millions a year in income or something, those who know watches will know it's fake. Those who don't know will not have the capacity to even fathom free sprung vs regulator arm.

 

[Rx4Time]

If you are worried about being called out, you should shift your interest to a rep of a more reasonably priced genuine, one which has been much better repped. The combination of a top tier rep and a more accessable genuine price will significantly reduce your concern of a call out. Think like Rolex, Tudor, Omega, Panerai, Breitling. Then again, I've never seen a genuine Rodger Dubuis in the wild so there's that....

 

[Horace_Derwent]

@Reaps is 100 % correct as always, anyway i do like the @TT1000 attitude towards RD watches !

Infact, look at this Curatedition thread regarding the RD Spider Pirelli

Roger Dubuis: Petrolheads | Curatedition

Roger Dubuis Excalibur Spider Pirelli Automatic Skeleton evokes the adrenaline of the motorsport pitstop with a patented one-click Quick Release System.

curatedition.com

The free-sprung balance wheel is not even mentioned !

Watchesl ike this are more like a statement, they're bold . strange....yes,
Roger Dubuis is one of the few Swiss watch companies that produces most of its caliber components in-house. aswell as one of the few maisons who bear the Poinçon de Genève, or Geneva Hallmark, certifying a watchmaking quality specific to Geneva.

But you know, we are speaking of Reps So let's take all of this Hobby with a grain of salt !

 

[Dr Fun Socks]

At least the regulator arm is kind of hidden on the rd reps, under the little black pointer. Wouldnt bother looking through the case back for it though its literally right on the dial at 7 oclock… pretty sure there are only like 28 of each model made in the world for some of the tourbillons so chances are you will never see one in the wild or ever meet someone who has one.

 

[TT1000]

Thanks very much for the above responses. I agree its very hard to cross with another guy wearing a similar watch, or that someone would ask to doublecheck it. I just feel better knowing the watch has no way to be called out unless opened it or by a professional.

 

[Dr Fun Socks]

Maybe look at the NWBIG list. Pretty sure there is nothing in the $100k+ range on there but i could be wrong.

 

[Reaps]

Rolex, Omega, Tag, Tudor, there are multitude of watches that are far more suited for this. $300k RM35 and $80k Roger Dubois is not subtle nor NWBIG

 

[Horace_Derwent]

. I just feel better knowing the watch has no way to be called out unless opened it or by a professional.

And you should feel better already wearing the Rep

If you like, buy It...i think you will not regret It !

 

[Horace_Derwent]

I would like to update this thread, with 3 mainteinance videos of various Roger Dubuis.

First is this awesome Excalibur 42 Skeleton Tourbillon , it should be the RDDBEX0393 @TT1000 cited before

The already mentioned free sprung is clearly visible, but with the watch completely disassembled.
It is a great technical feature, yet a negligible one, especially in a Rep of such a rare and particular watch !

Then we have this incredible restoration and recalibration of a RD Double Tourbillon

Incredible precision and skills...yet someone in the comments pointed out : 'this is not the Gen RD Double Tourbillon, it is a Fake'...
I cannot say 100 % if it is a Gen or a Rep, anyway it is such a rare,particular, 'you will never see another oen again' kind of Watch, that it is not SO important if it is a Gen or a Rep !

I mean, we shoudl be glad that Reps like these exists altogether...it is pretty obvious that a Rep cannot be THE SAME of a > 100.000 $ , with such technical sophistication, right ?

Oterwise every Rep would be indentical ìto every other Gen, so why buying Gens ?
It is pretty normal and understatavle that brands like Roger Dubuis, Breguet, Jacob & Co, will be never be identical to their Gen counterpart.

The NWBIG Game can be played with a Submariner or a Black Bay or a PAM Luminor, not with such complex kind of watches,,,

And finally, the Restoration of a rusty Excalibur RDDBEX0388 (which is still one of my favourite RD designs)

Please look at that poor micro-rotor brushing at 1.00 minutes mark

In the end, buy this RD if you like it....nobody (and i assure you NOBODY) is going to call you out for a free sprung balance which is not even visible with the naked eye in a normal situation !

 

[CF_Stan]

And you should feel better already wearing the Rep

If you like, buy It...i think you will not regret It !

This 100%. If you after a tourbillon on a skeleton dial you won't be disappointed. A few of the details are off like the case size of some of the models but the build quality is very good. Once you see that tourbillon spinning you'll be in love.

If you do pull the trigger ask your TD to do a power reserve test.

 

[Dr Fun Socks]

I would like to update this thread, with 3 mainteinance videos of various Roger Dubuis.

First is this awesome Excalibur 42 Skeleton Tourbillon , it should be the RDDBEX0393 @TT1000 cited before

The already mentioned free sprung is clearly visible, but with the watch completely disassembled.
It is a great technical feature, yet a negligible one, especially in a Rep of such a rare and particular watch !

Then we have this incredible restoration and recalibration of a RD Double Tourbillon

Incredible precision and skills...yet someone in the comments pointed out : 'this is not the Gen RD Double Tourbillon, it is a Fake'...
I cannot say 100 % if it is a Gen or a Rep, anyway it is such a rare,particular, 'you will never see another oen again' kind of Watch, that it is not SO important if it is a Gen or a Rep !

I mean, we shoudl be glad that Reps like these exists altogether...it is pretty obvious that a Rep cannot be THE SAME of a > 100.000 $ , with such technical sophistication, right ?

Oterwise every Rep would be indentical ìto every other Gen, so why buying Gens ?
It is pretty normal and understatavle that brands like Roger Dubuis, Breguet, Jacob & Co, will be never be identical to their Gen counterpart.

The NWBIG Game can be played with a Submariner or a Black Bay or a PAM Luminor, not with such complex kind of watches,,,

And finally, the Restoration of a rusty Excalibur RDDBEX0388 (which is still one of my favourite RD designs)

Please look at that poor micro-rotor brushing at 1.00 minutes mark

In the end, buy this RD if you like it....nobody (and i assure you NOBODY) is going to call you out for a free sprung balance which is not even visible with the naked eye in a normal situation !

Thats some great watch porn man! That guy in the third video really fucked that rotor up though! Must of used acetone or some form of solvent. Terrible choice. Should of used what he did on the date wheel. Probably just isopropyl alcohol. Id be pissed if my watch came back from a service like that!

 

[Horace_Derwent]

Thats some great watch porn man! That guy in the third video really fucked that rotor up though! Must of used acetone or some form of solvent. Terrible choice. Should of used what he did on the date wheel. Probably just isopropyl alcohol. Id be pissed if my watch came back from a service like that!

Eheeh, It is the same Youtube channel and the same guy !
Yes, the same guy who made that incredibly complex repair on one of the 2 Tourbillons, has deleted the RD from the Microrotor

Anyway, i think @TT1000 can read these excellent reviews you make dear @Dr Fun Socks !! What a great work !

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A lot of knowledge and details there, A LOT !