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AP 5402 Project Deep Dive

W47chl0v3r

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Posting a detailed look into how my 5402 project was created for those who are curious about it.

The idea first popped into my head when I thought to myself how cool it would be to make a 5402 franken without the usual problems (thickness, separate casebacks like all other frankens built so far, not to mention the clasp and hands which are different than gen 15202 hands). At this point I had a 15202 franken with gen white dial and hands with an XF case. For financial reasons I sold the dial and hands to aqcuire other parts for other builds so I created a void where my gen dial and hands went. I then bought and installed a custom salmon dial and datedisk thinking that would satisfy me and fill that void but the thought was in the back of my mind to get a gen 15202 or 5402 dial. Some time later, I asked my contact completely out of the blue if he could make a 5402 custom case since he's made dozens of custom 15202 cases and projects. The conversation to buy it went like this:

After aqcuiring the case I never thought would exist in this hobby let alone when I asked for it out of the blue, the first of the problems arose. The XF bracelet when attached to the case created an unpleasant gap so much so that I even tried selling the case because I thought it would be impossible to adjust the lug holes and also to buy a gen dial. I installed my salmon dial in the watch case, called it a day and never took it out because of the large gap I thought was terrible. About 1 year passed from this point before I thought of how to address this problem. Using a diamond wire saw, I removed enough material to enlarge the holes and to also move them down 2mm so the case would fit perfectly with the bracelet. I used jb weld epoxy to fill the space where the old lug holes were and used a tungsten carbide drillbit to even out the new holes. Now I had the case and bracelet issue fixed, but still no gen dial.

Some time passed and more doubt enterred my mind about finishing the build, but I was still not happy with the salmon dial and wanted that blue hue and old looking font of the 5402 dial. One morning I browsed online and saw one and bought it without hesitation. It wasn't until I paid that I realized this dial didnt have markers. I was happy with this as I could add them later as markers have been sold before in the past. The important thing was the dial itself. The dial I bought was obtained from a watchmaker in Switzerland a long time ago per the seller. For being over 50 years old the wear is almost non-existant. On the back it is signed 60021 00010. I thought I had just won the lottery.

Back to the problems I mentioned above. Little did I know, when I removed the canon pinion and swapped it for another, I accidentally widened it so it now slipped when spinning on the center wheel. This caused the hands to never move and basically killed the watch for me, and my hopes. I didnt have the tools or people around me to fix it. There it sat for a week until I gathered the courage to address it and risked ruining the movement even more. Even when fully wound, the minute hand wouldnt move a smidge for hours. In addition, upon further inspection I realized that I used the wrong setting wheel when installing the watch. Big oops.

When my contact who sold me the case learned of this problem he then said I should take it to a professional to fix it. I agreed and then even consulted my local watchmaker about it. However, after spotting and tackling the setting wheel issue, I had a lot of confidence I could do it. I got the very loose canon pinion out, a set of small pliers and went to town on it. The tightening wasn't as hard as I imagined, but it was getting it back on that worried me. It didnt even budge when trying to press it back down, but I forced it on with a good amount of pressure and hoped for the best. It is supposed to be extremely tight to prevent it from slipping and I thought that I had done it. When it came time to case it back up, I spilled all 16 bezel screw pieces on my floor and thought "what the hell did I just do." Sure enough, I was able to find them all. After addressing all the problems with the case and bracelet lining up, acquiring a good enough gen dial, and troubleshooting and fixing my movement by myself like MacGyver everything was set for assembly.

So voila! My respectable 5402 franken was born. The hands now move properly, date disk flips over how it should, and no further issues require immediate attention to be able to wear this watch out in public. If anyone asked I'll say it's a gen 5402 A series number 666 after the devil. Just kidding, but this project sure was the project from hell...
 

el_assamite

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Just wanted to take a moment to congratulate you on assembling that stunning watch! Your skills are truly impressive, and I can tell a lot of passion and precision went into every detail. You’ve really outdone yourself—it’s a piece anyone would be proud to wear!

Well done, my friend!
 
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pam63C

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This is definitely more exciting and memorable than just buying a watch.

Where do you source the period correct hands ?
 

j21

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Just perfect...
Congratulations
 

W47chl0v3r

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This is definitely more exciting and memorable than just buying a watch.

Where do you source the period correct hands ?
Since XF hands don’t fit I bought a pair of custom hands. they’re not made to be for a 5402 but they look close enough, not to mention they’re made for the 2121 movement.
 

tosoboso

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@W47chl0v3r I enjoyed so very much reading your story, thanks for sharing. Well done on not giving up and kudos for your perseverance. Well your 5402 in good health, it’s a unique piece in so many ways
 
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Erinoush

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You've made THE watch. Congrats Sir !!!
it is very personal of course, but to me, it is one if not the most beautiful watch ever produced which imo plays in its own league....
On the wrist, there is the Jumbo and there is the rest to my eyes, all the other Gentas made after this piece are not at this level even the 5711 is boring in comparison... i was lucky to get allocated a 15202 few years ago, but the 5402 is even a step upward imo !

Just one note about the bracelet, unlike the 15202 post 2012, previews jumbo models including the 5402 A/B/C are carrying the same very thin, and subbtle (even weak somehow) bracelet. It shouldn't cost that much, and i am sure you can find some in reasonable good shape on the web for a correct price. You'll enjoy your watch even more with the touch and feel of a real AP vintage...
 
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daft772

Getting To Know The Place
28/5/19
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wow, very impressive build.
I'm working on a build that has a similar problem with the bracelet gap... thanks for the idea!
Do you have left over bracelet parts for sale?
 

W47chl0v3r

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wow, very impressive build.
I'm working on a build that has a similar problem with the bracelet gap... thanks for the idea!
Do you have left over bracelet parts for sale?
The diamond wire I used is 1mm and Amazon sells it with the saw included. Just need the right size drill bit to enlarge the hole made by the saw. Glad I could help! I have no other spare parts besides a 15202 modern clasp and two links.
 
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W47chl0v3r

Franken AP Enthusiast
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You've made THE watch. Congrats Sir !!!
it is very personal of course, but to me, it is one if not the most beautiful watch ever produced which imo plays in its own league....
On the wrist, there is the Jumbo and there is the rest to my eyes, all the other Gentas made after this piece are not at this level even the 5711 is boring in comparison... i was lucky to get allocated a 15202 few years ago, but the 5402 is even a step upward imo !

Just one note about the bracelet, unlike the 15202 post 2012, previews jumbo models including the 5402 A/B/C are carrying the same very thin, and subbtle (even weak somehow) bracelet. It shouldn't cost that much, and i am sure you can find some in reasonable good shape on the web for a correct price. You'll enjoy your watch even more with the touch and feel of a real AP vintage...
Couldn't agree more. It's like nothing is ever as good as the original, and that applies to the jumbo model.

A 5402 bracelet has been on sale once before and I think it sold for $10k at Sothebys so I went the "we have a gen clasp at home" path.

Agree 1000%, even now, before the markers are installed, it looks unreal!
 
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love_in_jumbo

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This is Epic…….!

Thank you so much for this. I am following your path here :) I currently have 15202 gen dial with miyota movement.

I am not happy with current visual regarding the the hand base. So… if you would share your knowledge it would really help me a lot. :)

I have few questions.

1. Is the custom hands, SW hands? If not what custom hands is this?

2. Are you using K2121 movement?

3. Do you know if k2121 stem will work with ZF crown?

thank you so much
 
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W47chl0v3r

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@love_in_jumbo Gen hands or Gen-spec hands are recommended for 15202 projects because of the clear difference in finishing and size of the base compared to factory hands. Yes this is a K2121 movement. I believe my hands I used here are cheap no name ones and are still not even close to Gen ones but satisfactory for me. More important are case, dial, and movement because if I used a miyota movement I’d have to cut the dial feet off a one of a kind dial and ruin it.

Any stem can be made to fit any crown using stem adapters and cutting to fit.

ZF case isn’t ideal for 15202 frankens because the k2121 movement wasn’t made for it. Better for buy a true Gen spec CNC case for the 15202 because then it’s constructed to hold the 2121 movement without modification and modified ZF cases aren’t correct either with a separate caseback. I have a supplier who sells them not those fake CNC cases but actual ones. Like how my 5402 case has a monoblock case and caseback.
 
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love_in_jumbo

Active Member
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@love_in_jumbo Gen hands or Gen-spec hands are recommended for 15202 projects because of the clear difference in finishing and size of the base compared to factory hands. Yes this is a K2121 movement. I believe my hands I used here are cheap no name ones and are still not even close to Gen ones but satisfactory for me. More important are case, dial, and movement because if I used a miyota movement I’d have to cut the dial feet off a one of a kind dial and ruin it.

Any stem can be made to fit any crown using stem adapters and cutting to fit.

ZF case isn’t ideal for 15202 frankens because the k2121 movement wasn’t made for it. Better for buy a true Gen spec CNC case for the 15202 because then it’s constructed to hold the 2121 movement without modification and modified ZF cases aren’t correct either with a separate caseback. I have a supplier who sells them not those fake CNC cases but actual ones. Like how my 5402 case has a monoblock case and caseback.
Thank you so much for the info. Sadly the my gen dial’s leg has been already cut off my first build.

Regarding the hands, So is the ones you are using, is it literrally no name factory? I would also like buy one of those but - if they dont have the names, i will be lost :)