-
Tired of adverts on RWI? - Subscribe by clicking HERE and PMing Trailboss for instructions and they will magically go away!
Any comments concerning the new z factory 359?
- Thread starter Perry
- Start date
I was just thinking about it yesterday and went to puretime site to see if I can see some differences. All I found was a bit thinner engravings on movement from ZF than on KW. But lets see what experts says. 
I've been wondering about the "in-hand" quality of the Z Factory offerings as well -- any sage, picture-heavy advice out there?
I think the same thing can be said that was mentioned when comparing the
KW and ZF (Then Unknown) 312.
The KW movement does have a better decorated plate. This is what was posted by Ale back on 6/6/13 (We now know that the Puretime version is the ZF version if I am not mistaken:
As above said they are standard A7750 decorated like Panerai Manifattura P.9000
There are two versions:
- Less eleborated and less accurate from a factory working with Puretime
- Elaborated, more accurate and nice finish from KW
Please see the layout of the movement is completely inverted in both versions, since they are from a A7750 standard
PURETIME VERSION
KUVARSIT VERSION
Main flaws, leaving aside inverted layout:
KW Version: Searching for accuracy it features a false escapement wheel (teethed chromed wheel) which, obviously, is not working. The edges of circular bridge are golden.
Puretime version: Inaccurate decoration in Balance cock (part covering the Incablock system). Bad quality engraving and finish in general. Inscription MADE SWISS instead of SWISS MADE. This decoration has not escapement Wheel.
I have just seen a version of this decoration from Timeshops with a escapement wheel included, but it actually is the same as Puretime version.
This decoration is an approach in accuracy to the gen P.9000.
But it is not at all an approach to the real Clone P.9000
Models:
PAM 312 and 359 are already released by KW
PAM 386 released only for Puretime
PAM 441 released only for Puretime although the gen has P.9001 instead of 9000
Comming soon:
PAM 386 KW
PAM 388
PAM 505
And, most likely, more PAM watches fitted with P.9000 and 9001
I hope this helps you
ALE
__________________
KW and ZF (Then Unknown) 312.
The KW movement does have a better decorated plate. This is what was posted by Ale back on 6/6/13 (We now know that the Puretime version is the ZF version if I am not mistaken:
As above said they are standard A7750 decorated like Panerai Manifattura P.9000
There are two versions:
- Less eleborated and less accurate from a factory working with Puretime
- Elaborated, more accurate and nice finish from KW
Please see the layout of the movement is completely inverted in both versions, since they are from a A7750 standard
PURETIME VERSION
KUVARSIT VERSION
Main flaws, leaving aside inverted layout:
KW Version: Searching for accuracy it features a false escapement wheel (teethed chromed wheel) which, obviously, is not working. The edges of circular bridge are golden.
Puretime version: Inaccurate decoration in Balance cock (part covering the Incablock system). Bad quality engraving and finish in general. Inscription MADE SWISS instead of SWISS MADE. This decoration has not escapement Wheel.
I have just seen a version of this decoration from Timeshops with a escapement wheel included, but it actually is the same as Puretime version.
This decoration is an approach in accuracy to the gen P.9000.
But it is not at all an approach to the real Clone P.9000
Models:
PAM 312 and 359 are already released by KW
PAM 386 released only for Puretime
PAM 441 released only for Puretime although the gen has P.9001 instead of 9000
Comming soon:
PAM 386 KW
PAM 388
PAM 505
And, most likely, more PAM watches fitted with P.9000 and 9001
I hope this helps you
ALE
__________________
Although, as a rebuttal, here is a pic from Puretimes page for the new ZF 359:
The movement looks more like the kw version now, with what i believe to be the balance cock having better decorations now.
The movement looks more like the kw version now, with what i believe to be the balance cock having better decorations now.
- 18/1/11
- 19,846
- 423
- 83
Be careful !!
ZFac decoration is not the same as old Puretime version
ZFac decoration is very similar and almost equivalent to KW version in quality
ALE
EDITED: THE MAIN DIFFERENCE IS ZFac VERSION HAS DECORATION "JEWELS" PAINTED INSTEAD OF "REAL JEWELS" LIKE KW
ZFac decoration is not the same as old Puretime version
ZFac decoration is very similar and almost equivalent to KW version in quality
ALE
EDITED: THE MAIN DIFFERENCE IS ZFac VERSION HAS DECORATION "JEWELS" PAINTED INSTEAD OF "REAL JEWELS" LIKE KW
Ale...I sent you a PM on repgeek. Can you check it out? I'm having a dealer issue for the first time after 10 years collecting reps.
- 18/1/11
- 19,846
- 423
- 83
Proof is in the pudding on the look -- having seen no posts or photos regarding actual specimens in the hands of consumers, I'm a tad skeptical in assuming the ZFac pieces look better than their pictures. Although it could be Freudian, you may have given us the answer ALE with the term "almost" ...
Thats what i realized when looking at the pictures that you posted a while back from the old Puretime version. I see that ZF now has decorated the balance cock and is quite similar to KW. Have you had a moment or opportunity to determine which one has better decorations yet? I dont think i have seen anyone post anything about this topic yet.
I was also under the impression that ZF is the same factory that made the initial Puretime versions. Either they are and then changed their design slightly or the old puretime version was not from ZF at all but yet another maker
- 18/1/11
- 19,846
- 423
- 83
Overall quality seems very similar. Yes engravings seems thinner in ZFac
But ZFac false jewels are painted instead of similar to "real" jewels. This is a bad solution IMO
ALE
Please do. I'm about to pull the trigger on my very first rep and I've decided on the PAM 312. I just read all of the guides and comparisons on this forum too.
Just saw that today too.
Pam312 O Luminor 1950 3 Days SS/LT kw V ($298)
PAM312 P V2 Z Factory Blk SS LT P.9000 1:1 Best ($348)
- 18/1/11
- 19,846
- 423
- 83
any updates on this.?
havent fully decided on which to go for but i'd really like a 359
Regarding movement decoration I think KW with "real" jewels is superior. Because the rest is very similar
Regardins case accuracy and finish, I honesty think KW is superior from several info from owners
But we have no clue about dial appearance finish and accuracy
I know KW little numerals are a bit bolder than gen, as usually happens in reps. But I think ZFac is the same
Anyway, I own KW PAM 359 and can say it is awesome with a strong gen-like appearance, just like KW PAM 388, 417, 312, 505
BTW: I have just received one of my preferred PAMs: PAM 351, from KW.
I thought with Titanium KW would have more problems for a good finish, but now I can see I went wrong. Just WOW !!
ALE
For me the biggest differnce in the KW and Zf is the lume...
I understand that Zf will be upgrading this detail but for me it is the biggest and most visible difference... the movement have never been an issue for me on any of these newer reps as none of them are close enough no matter how good at replicating the IH movement....however one thing I have noticed is how smooth and quiet the Zf movemnts have been passing through my hands..at first I thought it was one of those 'you got lucky' parts of this gme but it has been consistent between them all..
Apart from the more obvious differences such as CP, Hands, Cutouts (in terms of depth) plus inscriptions, CG body and lever (including pin and RB etc) etc I always feel that lume is what seperates them when making a choice..
Barring the lume on these I genuinely believe that any choice made is very subjective rather than being based on whats better or the best ..if that makes sense... by that I mean that they are both generally (in terms of the 300 series model range made by both makers) very good OTB reps and the differences on both are equal to the flaws... as in they are equally as good as they are bad but in different ways...I aint saying either is bad..but hopefully you get what I mean...
I am not trying to initiate any sense of competition..that is certainly not what we as hobbyist's are about I like them both as OTB reps and would wear either happily... but my choice is based on what flaws I hate more on one than on the other (generally speaking that is)
With the 359 on the Zf it is the lume that blows it for me..so I dont go any further as that is such an important flaw to me... where as to others it may be the dial itself or the crystal etc etc..we all have a list of what is important in a pAM rep to us on the wrist...
I think in the most part of these makers and models that it is much like 2 guys discussing which world cup winning teams were the best in thier particular final... both were world cup winners they just did it in different ways on the day..
I understand that Zf will be upgrading this detail but for me it is the biggest and most visible difference... the movement have never been an issue for me on any of these newer reps as none of them are close enough no matter how good at replicating the IH movement....however one thing I have noticed is how smooth and quiet the Zf movemnts have been passing through my hands..at first I thought it was one of those 'you got lucky' parts of this gme but it has been consistent between them all..
Apart from the more obvious differences such as CP, Hands, Cutouts (in terms of depth) plus inscriptions, CG body and lever (including pin and RB etc) etc I always feel that lume is what seperates them when making a choice..
Barring the lume on these I genuinely believe that any choice made is very subjective rather than being based on whats better or the best ..if that makes sense
... by that I mean that they are both generally (in terms of the 300 series model range made by both makers) very good OTB reps and the differences on both are equal to the flaws... as in they are equally as good as they are bad but in different ways...I aint saying either is bad..but hopefully you get what I mean...I am not trying to initiate any sense of competition..that is certainly not what we as hobbyist's are about
I like them both as OTB reps and would wear either happily... but my choice is based on what flaws I hate more on one than on the other (generally speaking that is)With the 359 on the Zf it is the lume that blows it for me..so I dont go any further as that is such an important flaw to me... where as to others it may be the dial itself or the crystal etc etc..we all have a list of what is important in a pAM rep to us on the wrist...
I think in the most part of these makers and models that it is much like 2 guys discussing which world cup winning teams were the best in thier particular final... both were world cup winners they just did it in different ways on the day..
Kind of you to say mate... but as I say its just my HO mate nothing more..
I am fortunate to have some gen lume... and varnish which I intended to use on the 372 but now I have the dial I was thinking of using it on the 359...though i am still undecided which to get...and if Zf do improve anything then maybe the lume I have can go on something else...
In a perfect world (as in where I have the money!! ) I would like to get both and do a hybrid..
I am fortunate to have some gen lume... and varnish which I intended to use on the 372 but now I have the dial I was thinking of using it on the 359...though i am still undecided which to get...and if Zf do improve anything then maybe the lume I have can go on something else...
In a perfect world (as in where I have the money!!
) I would like to get both and do a hybrid..