Any chronograph issues on the PAM356 "Dirty Daylight"?

[Silvire]

Hey ya'll.

I'm just about the pull the plug on a PAM356 from one of the TDs here, TS Watch Limited.

Just wanted to check, I know about the famous wobble on the "3" sub-dial, I'm not worried about that.

However, I've seen at least one account of a person's PAM356 whereby the "3" sub-dial is permanently at the 10 o'clock position.

Now the thing is, I regularly use the chronograph on my watch 2-5 times a day.

Usually it's timing my coffee brewing, sometimes for other stuff.

Any accounts of frequent chronograph usage causing any long term damage?
I will not be running the chronograph all the time, usually 2-5 times a day, for between 3minutes to 30minutes each time.

 

[flyr]

If it is an unserviced A7750/7753,it will fail with use.
The more you use it, the faster this will happen.
If you expect to use the chrono function in a watch regularly you should buy quartz or a st19 powered model.
Unfortunately the 356 is most likely not available with either one of the reliable movements.
http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=6930&view=findpost&p=113006

 

[ALE7575]

I wouldn't use a rep chrono like an habitual chrono
Rep chrono movements are not made to be used several times daily without problems
Many rep chrono owners don't use the chrono function ever (myself included)
If you want a chrono buy a cheap and reliable Cassio quartz

BTW, PAM 356 Noob is one of the best chrono replicas ever made

Just my thoughts
ALE

 

[matthew90]

No issues aside from the Wobbly hand. It's one of the most beautiful and well made / pure gen like Chrono rep I have ever had. Definitely buy it to rock it but if you want functional chronograph without any hiccups, go with a quartz for sure. really not worth messing with a7753. I never use my chrono functions on my chrono reps and so should you. The replicas are meant to be literally replicas of how they look rather than how they function

 

[Silvire]

If it is an unserviced A7750/7753,it will fail with use.
The more you use it, the faster this will happen.
If you expect to use the chrono function in a watch regularly you should buy quartz or a st19 powered model.
Unfortunately the 356 is most likely not available with either one of the reliable movements.
http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=6930&view=findpost&p=113006

Hey Flyr, thank you very much for your reply!
I think it would help for me to provide more information:

1.) The watch will be in a daily rotation. So it'll get worn between 1-3 times a week at most.
2.) I had initially wanted to use the chronograph approximately 2-5 times a day, measuring 4min to 30min at most. This would work out to the chronograph being used 2-15 times a week, for periods of 4min to 30min.
3.) It's a brand new replica I'm buying from TS Watch Ltd.
4.) I don't mind sending it for regular servicing, whether in the UK or back to TS Watch for servicing. However, if I persist in using it as mentioned earlier, how regularly would I need to get it serviced?
5.) In your opinion, is there any Panerai chronograph that has a reliable movement for chronograph?
6.) Will the date function on the Asian 7750 still work properly, or is that for show too?

I wouldn't use a rep chrono like an habitual chrono
Rep chrono movements are not made to be used several times daily without problems
Many rep chrono owners don't use the chrono function ever (myself included)
If you want a chrono buy a cheap and reliable Cassio quartz

BTW, PAM 356 Noob is one of the best chrono replicas ever made

Just my thoughts
ALE

Hey Ale, thanks for your reply.
I don't want to buy a Casio Quartz, I've got a gen Tag Heuer CAP2112 chronograph that I use regularly.
Thing is, I'd like to buy a nice Panerai, and a nice Omega replica that I can use the chronograph regularly, as mentioned above.
Do you think this is possible? Flyr mentioned only those with the ST19 movement, or I'm assuming those with a Quartz movement but fake simulated smooth sweeping hands.

No issues aside from the Wobbly hand. It's one of the most beautiful and well made / pure gen like Chrono rep I have ever had. Definitely buy it to rock it but if you want functional chronograph without any hiccups, go with a quartz for sure. really not worth messing with a7753. I never use my chrono functions on my chrono reps and so should you. The replicas are meant to be literally replicas of how they look rather than how they function

Hey Matthew, thanks for the reply! =)

If I'm looking for a Panerai, and an Omega replica with a chronograph that can be used regularly... Any advice?

 

[flyr]

You will not find a A7750/7753 powered chrono that will be reliable.(and it doesn't matter if it's brand new)
Some owners have been lucky but the majority that have used the chrono function regularly have run into problems.
Servicing is expensive($200) and it is hard to find someone to work on them.(you don't want to send it back to China)
The date mech works fine if you set the date correctly.
Good luck.

 

[Silvire]

You will not find a A7750/7753 powered chrono that will be reliable.(and it doesn't matter if it's brand new)
Some owners have been lucky but the majority that have used the chrono function regularly have run into problems.
Servicing is expensive($200) and it is hard to find someone to work on them.(you don't want to send it back to China)
The date mech works fine if you set the date correctly.
Good luck.

Hey Flyr,

Thanks for the very quick reply.
At $200 for servicing, I guess I'd be better off just buying a brand new chrono.

Looks like my choices are either to never use the chrono, or to use it and hope I fall into the minority.

One more question, if you don't mind: If I use the chrono, and the movement fails on me, do you think I could send it to a local (UK) watch specialist who can just "freeze" the chronograph hands?
That means I'll just use the chrono until it fails, then have it frozen permanently to look perfect.

Or is it a case of, if I use the chrono until it fails, the entire movement fails and the watch cannot keep time anymore?

 

[airking]

the asian 7750 and 7753 parts arent as robust as the swiss counterparts. so even if you service them, i dont think they will be "workhorse" quality which is what i think you need if you want to use the chrono daily.

ive had the reset hammer break after pressing the reset button and then had to replace it with the swiss part. when i compared the parts, it was clear that that the swiss part was much more solid. similarly, i also have issues with the oscillating pinion where the teeth was not perfect or was easily damaged. that caused the chronograph function to stutter or freeze.

if the watch is a keeper, id recommend upgrading to swiss 7753. you might need to mod the hands or get gen hands (chrono seconds and sub dials might not work) but you'll have piece of mind. you can find decent deals on the 7753 on ebay or on these forums. i sourced a 7753 from a forum (repgeek/rwi) a few yrs back. been waiting for a pam 356 or cartier to come up for sale cheap so that i can transplant it in lol.

 

[Silvire]

the asian 7750 and 7753 parts arent as robust as the swiss counterparts. so even if you service them, i dont think they will be "workhorse" quality which is what i think you need if you want to use the chrono daily.

ive had the reset hammer break after pressing the reset button and then had to replace it with the swiss part. when i compared the parts, it was clear that that the swiss part was much more solid. similarly, i also have issues with the oscillating pinion where the teeth was not perfect or was easily damaged. that caused the chronograph function to stutter or freeze.

if the watch is a keeper, id recommend upgrading to swiss 7753. you might need to mod the hands or get gen hands (chrono seconds and sub dials might not work) but you'll have piece of mind. you can find decent deals on the 7753 on ebay or on these forums. i sourced a 7753 from a forum (repgeek/rwi) a few yrs back. been waiting for a pam 356 or cartier to come up for sale cheap so that i can transplant it in lol.

Sounds like a plan. Is it hard to open up watches and do replacements of parts yourself?
I consider myself a hands on person, I built my own computer, and I repair and restore fountain pens, but I honestly would rather pay say, $50 to $100 to send the watch to someone who knows what they're doing, than to experiment myself, at least, at this point of time.

 

[steppen]

+1 what Airking said.

I remember Ziggy (when he was active) did a great breakdown of the a7750. He commented how the components were softer and not as durable as their Swiss counterparts.

You can use the a7750/7753 unserviced until it craps out, get it serviced and have some relative piece of mind or get a Swiss movement and have total piece of mind.
..... Or use your phone to time whatever it is you're timing!


Sent from my iP6+

 

[mettmett]

....i read the Asian 7753 cant be replaced because I is a modified 7750...

 

[airking]

Sounds like a plan. Is it hard to open up watches and do replacements of parts yourself?
I consider myself a hands on person, I built my own computer, and I repair and restore fountain pens, but I honestly would rather pay say, $50 to $100 to send the watch to someone who knows what they're doing, than to experiment myself, at least, at this point of time.

If you're hands on, watch making would be cool to get into but be aware that you will ruin a lot of watches before you get comfortable with it. I've been casually modding for years and there's some watches that I won't even trust myself with. Also, the 7750/3 is pretty complicated so i wouldn't start off with that.


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[airking]

....i read the Asian 7753 cant be replaced because I is a modified 7750...

The 7753 is indeed a modified 7750 but you can definitely replace an Asian 7753 with a Swiss 7753. The only issue would be fitting the chronograph hand and sub dial hands.

The other thing to keep in mind though is to make sure the rep you are replacing is actually using a 7753 vs a modified 7750. Example: cheaper Pam day lights use modified 7750s. As a result, the case might not be a perfect fit and there might not be a working date pusher button at 10 which is essential for date changing. So when looking for a donor watch, you have to make sure that the rep is using an a7753 and not a modified a7750.


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[Silvire]

The 7753 is indeed a modified 7750 but you can definitely replace an Asian 7753 with a Swiss 7753. The only issue would be fitting the chronograph hand and sub dial hands.

The other thing to keep in mind though is to make sure the rep you are replacing is actually using a 7753 vs a modified 7750. Example: cheaper Pam day lights use modified 7750s. As a result, the case might not be a perfect fit and there might not be a working date pusher button at 10 which is essential for date changing. So when looking for a donor watch, you have to make sure that the rep is using an a7753 and not a modified a7750.


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Good point on that, I'm buying my Omega OM3030, and the PAM356, from the TDs here.
TS Watch Ltd (OM3030) and In Time (PAM356).
I will check that the date pusher at the "10" works, but I'm pretty sure it does.

Anyway, yes, that's the main reason why I'd rather not learn the craft of watch modding and servicing, at least right now. Similar to fountain pens, I damaged/broke quite a few fountain pens before I became reasonably confident of repairing and restoring them. Only difference is that rep watches are far more expensive - I can get 10-20 cheap vintage fountain pens for USD50, whereas one rep or one movement will cost upwards of USD150.

I guess I'll start looking for recommendations of skilled rep watch servicers in the UK!

 

[ALE7575]

Seagull ST-19 is more reliable as chrono, but it is manual
Good reps with ST-19 you have PAM 518 and PAM 520

ALE

 

[Z3k0]

Guys, if you want to install Swiss 7753 on 356 you need to get gen dial and datewheel at minimum. A7753 dials and DWs are NOT compatible with ETA 7753. So, please do some research before getting people to spend few hundred bucks on movement they will not be able to use ...
As for chrono reliability on A7750/53 it is really not that good. Running of chrono is not a problem, but every start and stop action is. Chrono operating lever on Asian movement is so poorly made that it fals apart easily if used often, and then causes all kinds of problems to the movement, apart from rendering chrono unusable. I think I have replaced 10 of these in last few years on A7750 movements. Other cams, springs and levers involved in chrono operation are also not up to swiss standards, so they can also fail sometimes, but operating lever is usually main culprit. Also, service will not help with this problems, they are not caused by lack of oil or dirt, parts are simply not made up to standards.

regards

 

[airking]

Guys, if you want to install Swiss 7753 on 356 you need to get gen dial and datewheel at minimum. A7753 dials and DWs ae NOT compatible with ETA 7753. So, please to some research before getting people to spend few hundred bucks on movement they will not be able to use ...
As for chrono reliability on A7750/53 it is really not that good. Running of chrono is not a problem, but every start and stop action is. Chrono operating lever on Asian movement is so poorly made that it fals apart easily if used often, and then causes all kinds of problems to the movement, apart from rendering chrono unusable. I think I have replaced 10 of these in last few years on A7750 movements. Other cams, springs and levers involved in chrono operation are also not up to swiss standards, so they can also fail sometimes, but operating lever is usually main culprit. Also, service will not help with this problems, they are not caused by lack of oil or dirt, parts are simply not made up to standards.

regards

interesting. so you're saying the dial feet for the a7753 is different from the swiss 7753 or that the subdial spacing is incorrect? and transplanting the dw from an a7753 to a swiss 7753 is not possible? they're not direct clones of each other like the 7750s are? i have seen people post about doing this mod successfully so i assumed the movements were true clones.

ive handled both swiss and a7753's and to me they looked idential but i havent had the opportunity to transplant a swiss 7753 to an a7753 so i could be wrong. you're not confusing a modified 3-6-9 7750 with a swiss 7753 are you?

 

[vanquish0000]

My first pam is also a 356 that I bought 2 years ago, it is indeed one of the BEST pam ever made, I later bought many other models like 382, 312, 243, but to me, none of them gave me the same satisfaction level as 356, maybe is because I'm into the chrono look, but it is very well and accurately made.

As for the movement, it died on me about 6 months into wearing it, I had it serviced from the trusted modder G(16610 watch repair) and switching to a swiss 7753 was my first thought given how much I LOVE this watch, but he told me that the layout of a7753 and swiss 7752 are different or something like that, therefore it's not interchangeable. After the service, the watch has been running for about a year and the half, but my wobble second hand @3 has gone loose, it is moving around the circle as I shake it, doesn't bother me much as long as the watch is running. What a pity because I would really love to swap a swiss movement into this if I could!!!!

 

[Z3k0]

interesting. so you're saying the dial feet for the a7753 is different from the swiss 7753 or that the subdial spacing is incorrect? and transplanting the dw from an a7753 to a swiss 7753 is not possible? they're not direct clones of each other like the 7750s are? i have seen people post about doing this mod successfully so i assumed the movements were true clones.

ive handled both swiss and a7753's and to me they looked idential but i havent had the opportunity to transplant a swiss 7753 to an a7753 so i could be wrong. you're not confusing a modified 3-6-9 7750 with a swiss 7753 are you?

Dial feet and subdial spacing are not the problem, date window position is. For some unknown reason, datewheel is made differently on A7753, inner diameter is different and teeth positions are different. Consequently date window position on the dial is different.
Here is comparison picture A7753 vs. ETA7753(borrowed from Vac):

I have actually built 2 Daylights with ETA 7753, but these were 196 and 250 for which it was possible to obtain ETA 7753 compatible dials and hands (from DSN, and from "cartel"). Also ETA 7753 datewheels were produced by some moders/members (I think Taka and Leo were making those).

regards

 

[d4m.test]

Hi Guys

Looking at using a Hamilton Euro Chrono as a donor to mod the 356.
I have a few questions
1. Can the two register H-31 be used in the 3 register case?
2. What are the other component s required for the mod?
3. Where can I source the hand set?

George