A2824 to SW200 : cannon pinion?

[mrsullivan]

Hi there,

I try to swap a dead A2824 to a SW200-1 I had for spare.
Once in place on the CP, the hour hand is loose, the minute hand is ok, and for the second hand it seems the center wheel is'nt high enough.

Is this cannon pinion & height difference specific to SW200, meaning : would an ETA 2824 be more of a direct swap?
Can I take the cannon pinion from the old A2824 to put it on the SW200?

Pictures here for reference (sorry for the dust on the Tudor dial, I've been on it for 2 hours!)

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[YellowFin]

The two movements should have the same pinion configuration, see screenshots below from technical documentation. Note that there are different pinion heights available from both ETA and Sellita, but your SW200 looks like standard (line 2 in the table). Can you lift off the small plate on the 2824's second hand pinion?

 

[mrsullivan]

.

 

[mrsullivan]

(sorry, editing from Tapatalk doubled my post)

Thank you for your input. So maybe it's the asian 2824 that is not in a common "western" configuration is it? As they often rename decorated movements, maybe the one supplied by the factory is like that.

That's the watch we're talking about here : https://puretimewatch.io/black-bay-36-krf-1-1-best-edition-black-dial-on-ss-bracelet-a2824-v2.html

By the way these multilingual tech sketches are more than welcome too.
I'll take pictures tonight and post yes.

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[YellowFin]

Thank you for your input. So maybe it's the asian 2824 that is not in a common "western" configuration is it? As they often rename decorated movements, maybe the one supplied by the factory is like that.

That's the watch we're talking about here : https://puretimewatch.io/black-bay-36-krf-1-1-best-edition-black-dial-on-ss-bracelet-a2824-v2.html

By the way these multilingual tech sketches are more than welcome too.
I'll take pictures tonight and post yes.

That's exactly how a 2824/SW200 baseplate should look like, see technical drawing from Sellita.
You can find the full document here: http://sellita.ch/scripts/calibres/images/Brochure_technique-SW200-1_39.pdf





What's that small disc on top of your second pinion, was this used for a second hand with larger diameter hole?

 

[mrsullivan]

I have no idea about the plate's purpose, but the second hand definitely has a larger hole.
Here is this A2824 cannon pinion. Is it a long shot to put it on the SW200, so the hands simply fit?

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[mrsullivan]

Ok I tried to transplant the center wheel + cannon pinnion from the A2824 to the SW200, but 1rst : the cannon pinnion can't be removed, so the center wheel can't either, and 2nd : I'm afraid I don't have the skills yet to rebuild the movement if ever I get the parts anyway.

So, if I want to get this beautiful brand new Tudor to work I guess I need a new movement, with the right cannon pinion so the hands fit.
Anyone has an idea for this? Will ETA be the right connon pinion specs? Or do I have to stick to a basic chinese A2824 replacement movement?

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[Ex-ki]

The cannon pinion is friction mounted on the central shaft, which means that you have to remove it with a specific tool (like the Bergeon 4854 cannon pinion remover).
But you can try to pull it with some other techniques. Take a look here: https://www.welwynwatches.co.uk/canon-pinion-removal-tools.html

Note that it's a risky operation, true. Be very careful if you decide to try for yourself.

 

[tsyeo4]

It does look like there is something blocking the canon pinion from coming off. I suspect that might be the feet from the second hand. Usually in sw200 or 2824 movement the second wheel does remove easily unless there is still a pinion stuck at it which can only be the second hand feet.

 

[mrsullivan]

Thank you both for your inputs.
The mission does seem too tricky for my skills here. I don't care to ruin the dead A2824, but I'm afraid to not be able the replace the part properly on the SW200.

I think the best solution here is to invest in a new movement. I'm ok with it, it's part of the game, but I want to be sure about the cannon pinion sizes when buying it.

Maybe the safest would be to contact a TD selling those KRF and ask for a similar movement? I'm afraid to buy a wrong one if I go on Ebay or such.

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[Dr Fun Socks]

It looks like the pinion from the seconds hand is stuck on your center wheel. If you can get that off, your center wheel will just pull through. Even on a new movement you will need that part or your seconds hand will just be loose. Ive had that problem before with a yacht master. Might be easier to press the seconds hand back on then remove it all as one part or pressing that tiny bit back on will be a pain in the arse.

 

[Ex-ki]

It looks like you're right. I did not see this detail.
May be he can simply pull the second hand pinion off with a presto tool or a super fine tweezers?
But he will have to put it back on the hand anyway after removing it and this would not be easy.

 

[mrsullivan]

It looks like you're right. I did not see this detail.
May be he can simply pull the second hand pinion off with a presto tool or a super fine tweezers?
But he will have to put it back on the hand anyway after removing it and this would not be easy.

That's the thing : I'm afraid to ruin a well functioning SW200 doing that. I'd rather keep it for another need and try to find an indentical replacement A2824 from TDs instead.

In the meantime, I'll still try to remove the second hand pinion from this dead A2824, just to find out how it's built. I'll update once done as it may help other people in the same situation.

Cheers

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[Ex-ki]

You can purchase a new A2824 from CousinsUK. Fast delivery (3 to 4 days for France) and controlled quality, but a little bit more expensive than from TD:

Here: https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/chinese-movement-list?code=TY2130GM

 

[Dr Fun Socks]

You can purchase a new A2824 from CousinsUK. Fast delivery (3 to 4 days for France) and controlled quality, but a little bit more expensive than from TD:

Here: https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/chinese-movement-list?code=TY2130GM

I always find the pricing a bit strange on cousins.
2824 asian: gold £60 silver £70
2836 asisn: gold £110 silver £80

no real difference between the gold or silver, just buy whats cheaper?

 

[Ex-ki]

I don't know the reason either.

 

[mrsullivan]

I was thinking about opening an account at Cousins anyway, will do that.
Regarding the movement, I think I'll ask a TD such as Li to source one, to make sure I get one a with proper cannon pinion for this model's hands.

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[mrsullivan]

Little update : a TD (not Li) gave me quite a high price for a new movement (180$ + shipping for asian 2824, no thank you) so I chose to dig in another way. I just ordered an aftermarket Tudor BB36 rep handset to give it a try on the SW200. To be continued...

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[mrsullivan]

Here's some good news. I received the 12€ aftermarket hand set from the bay, and it fit perfectly on the SW200.

Case closed, the cute little KRF BB36 is back on tracks, with a good Sellita inside

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[Ex-ki]

Great!