Link to the sales post:
forum.replica-watch.info
Who is this about: @c_hall100
Summary: I just had a very unfortunate experience with member @c_hall100, who effectively just robbed me off 300£. This is what happened in details.
October 4th 2023: I need a watchbox and have been eyeing for some time now the Hillwood watchbox shown in the linked sales thread, made of lacquered wood and weighing approx. 5kg, from seller @c_hall100. I pull the trigger on October 4th, 2023, as for UPS express as per my usual procedure, and get a quote a couple of minutes in amounting to 38.24£. Fine by me of course, so I transfer the funds 5 minutes after, and get confirmation that all is good and the box is mine. Wonderful, now I can store my watches in a nice box. Or so I told myself.
October 7th 2023: I get the following message from seller, quote on quote: "hello, i need to get a bigger box to ship the box safely, as the one I have would not be sturdy enough, so please bear with me on timings, it may be a couple of days before I can get it sorted. Also do you have an email address and mobile number for UPS". OK fine, no problem at all.
October 9th 2023: seller is annoyed because he needs to print 3 invoices to send the box outside UK, quote on quote "Jesus what a pain in the arse !!
I’ll do it tonight and drop it a ups tomorrow". Then "Well the box I got isn’t big enough so you’ll really need to bear with me as with my job as well I don’t have much time. I’ll get a bigger box tomorrow".
> took 5 days to figure that out. OK, no problem take your time, I can wait, so I answer "No worries mate
"
October 12th 2023: seller actually took three days, but OK I did not want to put unnecessary pressure on him. So he gets back to me: "Ok, quick update I now have a sturdy box big enough to ship, I have a day off tomorrow so will sort it all then and get it underway to you. Thanks for your patience"
October 13th 2023: the watchbox is finally sent by the seller and on its way. Now it's all well and fine, or so I tell myself, eager to finally get the stuff. Wait until the rest.
October 25th, 2023:
THE PICK UP. Upon pick-up, I become a bit circumspect: the parcel's cardboard is a bit loose, not "sturdy" as promised, and limps/slumps a bit on itself. I feel that the watchbox inside is moving, and to secure it in my hands, I have to press with my fingers from the outside, which then causes the sides of the box to sink a bit. Fuck. I hope the box is fine... Maybe it has been mishandled by UPS, but cardbox parcel definitely was not looking particularly sturdy from the outside. I was baffled that the cardboard parcel was not completely surrounded and packed in tape; at least that's the kind of protection I expected when he used the word "sturdy" - that's one of my "bombproof" process steps, but whatever.
THE OPENING. So I arrive home and try to open the parcel. One of the sides actually rips open easily:
The box was inside the thin pink wrapper that you can see on the image; it's so thin that it's see through. I am not kidding, you can see that on the image. The bubble wrapper under it.
In the cardboard box, at the bottom of the watchbox, a sheet of bubble wrapper folded in two. On top of the watchbox, some cardboard stuff that you get sometimes when ordering from amazon. Both I photographed here:
And that's all. I am not kidding, that's all.
The cover material that had been ripped off:
Video (you can even see the hinge is loose as well): https://imgur.com/s2mgv6s
The loose cover:
The crushed corners (all 4 !!):
The cover hinge cracked open:
Missing screw and loose screw video:
Video: https://imgur.com/XDDjoAW
So I immediately report the same to @c_hall100, who immediately create a claim against UPS. So he tells me that he is sorting things out with UPS, and when I ask him about what I should do with the wreck, and if he wants it back, he asks me to keep the box and all wrappings etc as evidence. Very well.
For me at this point, I don't want an open conflict with the seller, let's see if UPS first recognize any responsibility in the matter.
October 27th 2023: no news, so I ask "So what’s the status on this one now ? It has been two days already. Shall I open a ticket or ?" Actually, I know too well that the "non watch items" trade section is unmoderated, so I start to understand that I will be the f*cked one in the story. But ok let's wait and see and give the benefit of the doubt.
He answers "I don’t know how long it takes for UPS to review the claim to be honest with you, but why would you want to open a ticket?" and "When I spoke to them, they said that they will apparently come inspect the parcel like your address, so please hang onto it until they’ve done that".
OK, so UPS wants to perform a forensic analysis. Fair.
Seller then says "I’ve never had anything but perfect transactions on here, so please understand I’m trying to sort it for you, but I can’t be held 100% responsible for a parcel that was well packed in a sturdy box that has been chucked around obviously en route"
Oh the cheek to say something like this ! So I make my reserves known to the seller about the lack of adequate protection to the watchbox inside the parcel as well as the supposed "sturdiness" of the cardboard parcel itself: "I have objections to the part regarding sturdy box and well packed, and respectfully disagree, as well as regarding being held responsible (for sure UPS chucked the parcel around, but it’s not like there was a lot of protection inside, and transport was anyway to be expected), because after all the only thing that I expected was to receive a good in the exact same state than described, but let’s wait with that until the UPS recourse is exhausted"
I decide to park those reserves until we hear more from UPS.
Seller then proceeds to tell me that he called them for an update, they will apparently collect the parcel from me (what ?? I opened it, and it actually ripped itself apart). He tells exactly this "they are going to collect the parcel in the packaging", not sure wtf that is supposed to mean, so I ask him about that and he answers "I’m only telling you what the guy on the end of the phone said is that they have arranged to collect the box in the packaging take it back to wherever is they do the inspection and then process the claim I guess". Dude come on, I bought an item from you, don't get why I have to get salt. But OK. He then says "just put everything back in the box and tape it up they will collect thanks".
The parcel was literally falling apart on itself, so I taped it around completely. I swear I must have used at least 10 times the tape that @c_hall100 used.
October 30th 2023: still waiting for a phone call or email from UPS, nothing, but apparently I missed them or that's what the app is saying. No news whatsoever otherwise. So I actually took my car, drove to the UPS center directly, and handed over the parcel directly to the claim manager, he says he will take charge from there no worries. OK, fine, so I inform the seller.
In the meantime - summary of the situation: 1) seller declines responsibility and says it is UPS parcel mishandling, 2) I disagree and say that the watchbox was not adequately protected and therefore the seller actually lacked in his duty of diligence - after all the forum standard of shipping is "bombproof packaging" and this clearly failed on that part, and 3) we are awaiting the result of UPS forensic analysis.
November 10th, 2023: on Friday last week, I check on UPS website for status update. Claim is declined, UPS will contact sender for full details, and the watchbox is destroyed and must be binned:
So I am out of 338.24£, no watchbox, and I write to @c_hall100 that I want 300£ refunded. If he thinks that all that is UPS fault, it's up to him to take that fight with them, but I shall not be a part of that.
Well, the guy actually has the nerves to write me back this: "Well, I can’t quite understand why they would reject the claim. It was quite clear that the mishandling of the box caused the damage."
Like, literally UPS just rejected any responsiblity in the matter, good sir.
From there, the debate continues:
Opinion is given, "packaging is shocking" is the term used. I further ask two forum members I am doing business with, both tell me the same thing.
So now, @c_hall100 has unduly enriched himself, washed his hands off all responsibility, and I am out of pocket of roughly 340 GBP, and still need a watchbox.
U.K - Hillwood 24 Watch Collectors Box with Glass Top
Up for sale today is this very fine Hillwood 24 watch box in Laminated Makah Burlwood This large 24 watch collectors box has been meticulously crafted from the finest laminated makah burlwood veneer. Natural wood tones shine through the high gloss polished lacquer to enhance the overall look...
forum.replica-watch.info
Summary: I just had a very unfortunate experience with member @c_hall100, who effectively just robbed me off 300£. This is what happened in details.
October 4th 2023: I need a watchbox and have been eyeing for some time now the Hillwood watchbox shown in the linked sales thread, made of lacquered wood and weighing approx. 5kg, from seller @c_hall100. I pull the trigger on October 4th, 2023, as for UPS express as per my usual procedure, and get a quote a couple of minutes in amounting to 38.24£. Fine by me of course, so I transfer the funds 5 minutes after, and get confirmation that all is good and the box is mine. Wonderful, now I can store my watches in a nice box. Or so I told myself.
October 7th 2023: I get the following message from seller, quote on quote: "hello, i need to get a bigger box to ship the box safely, as the one I have would not be sturdy enough, so please bear with me on timings, it may be a couple of days before I can get it sorted. Also do you have an email address and mobile number for UPS". OK fine, no problem at all.
October 9th 2023: seller is annoyed because he needs to print 3 invoices to send the box outside UK, quote on quote "Jesus what a pain in the arse !!
I’ll do it tonight and drop it a ups tomorrow". Then "Well the box I got isn’t big enough so you’ll really need to bear with me as with my job as well I don’t have much time. I’ll get a bigger box tomorrow".> took 5 days to figure that out. OK, no problem take your time, I can wait, so I answer "No worries mate
"October 12th 2023: seller actually took three days, but OK I did not want to put unnecessary pressure on him. So he gets back to me: "Ok, quick update I now have a sturdy box big enough to ship, I have a day off tomorrow so will sort it all then and get it underway to you. Thanks for your patience"
October 13th 2023: the watchbox is finally sent by the seller and on its way. Now it's all well and fine, or so I tell myself, eager to finally get the stuff. Wait until the rest.
October 25th, 2023:
THE PICK UP. Upon pick-up, I become a bit circumspect: the parcel's cardboard is a bit loose, not "sturdy" as promised, and limps/slumps a bit on itself. I feel that the watchbox inside is moving, and to secure it in my hands, I have to press with my fingers from the outside, which then causes the sides of the box to sink a bit. Fuck. I hope the box is fine... Maybe it has been mishandled by UPS, but cardbox parcel definitely was not looking particularly sturdy from the outside. I was baffled that the cardboard parcel was not completely surrounded and packed in tape; at least that's the kind of protection I expected when he used the word "sturdy" - that's one of my "bombproof" process steps, but whatever.
THE OPENING. So I arrive home and try to open the parcel. One of the sides actually rips open easily:
The box was inside the thin pink wrapper that you can see on the image; it's so thin that it's see through. I am not kidding, you can see that on the image. The bubble wrapper under it.
In the cardboard box, at the bottom of the watchbox, a sheet of bubble wrapper folded in two. On top of the watchbox, some cardboard stuff that you get sometimes when ordering from amazon. Both I photographed here:
And that's all. I am not kidding, that's all.
- Nothing on the sides to cushion except empty air.
- No protection to the corners of the box (remember the material of the watchbox: it's lacquer !!).
- the box was not closed (at least seller could have stuffed the inside with cushions and tape the box close... no he did not do that).
- Nothing inside the box to cushion and prevent shocks. Since the box was not taped close, the cover (with a huge glass piece as see through cover !!!!!) of course repetitively flapped open/close during the air transport and handling.
The cover material that had been ripped off:
Video (you can even see the hinge is loose as well): https://imgur.com/s2mgv6s
The loose cover:
The crushed corners (all 4 !!):
The cover hinge cracked open:
Missing screw and loose screw video:
Video: https://imgur.com/XDDjoAW
So I immediately report the same to @c_hall100, who immediately create a claim against UPS. So he tells me that he is sorting things out with UPS, and when I ask him about what I should do with the wreck, and if he wants it back, he asks me to keep the box and all wrappings etc as evidence. Very well.
For me at this point, I don't want an open conflict with the seller, let's see if UPS first recognize any responsibility in the matter.
October 27th 2023: no news, so I ask "So what’s the status on this one now ? It has been two days already. Shall I open a ticket or ?" Actually, I know too well that the "non watch items" trade section is unmoderated, so I start to understand that I will be the f*cked one in the story. But ok let's wait and see and give the benefit of the doubt.
He answers "I don’t know how long it takes for UPS to review the claim to be honest with you, but why would you want to open a ticket?" and "When I spoke to them, they said that they will apparently come inspect the parcel like your address, so please hang onto it until they’ve done that".
OK, so UPS wants to perform a forensic analysis. Fair.
Seller then says "I’ve never had anything but perfect transactions on here, so please understand I’m trying to sort it for you, but I can’t be held 100% responsible for a parcel that was well packed in a sturdy box that has been chucked around obviously en route"
Oh the cheek to say something like this ! So I make my reserves known to the seller about the lack of adequate protection to the watchbox inside the parcel as well as the supposed "sturdiness" of the cardboard parcel itself: "I have objections to the part regarding sturdy box and well packed, and respectfully disagree, as well as regarding being held responsible (for sure UPS chucked the parcel around, but it’s not like there was a lot of protection inside, and transport was anyway to be expected), because after all the only thing that I expected was to receive a good in the exact same state than described, but let’s wait with that until the UPS recourse is exhausted"
I decide to park those reserves until we hear more from UPS.
Seller then proceeds to tell me that he called them for an update, they will apparently collect the parcel from me (what ?? I opened it, and it actually ripped itself apart). He tells exactly this "they are going to collect the parcel in the packaging", not sure wtf that is supposed to mean, so I ask him about that and he answers "I’m only telling you what the guy on the end of the phone said is that they have arranged to collect the box in the packaging take it back to wherever is they do the inspection and then process the claim I guess". Dude come on, I bought an item from you, don't get why I have to get salt. But OK. He then says "just put everything back in the box and tape it up they will collect thanks".
The parcel was literally falling apart on itself, so I taped it around completely. I swear I must have used at least 10 times the tape that @c_hall100 used.
October 30th 2023: still waiting for a phone call or email from UPS, nothing, but apparently I missed them or that's what the app is saying. No news whatsoever otherwise. So I actually took my car, drove to the UPS center directly, and handed over the parcel directly to the claim manager, he says he will take charge from there no worries. OK, fine, so I inform the seller.
In the meantime - summary of the situation: 1) seller declines responsibility and says it is UPS parcel mishandling, 2) I disagree and say that the watchbox was not adequately protected and therefore the seller actually lacked in his duty of diligence - after all the forum standard of shipping is "bombproof packaging" and this clearly failed on that part, and 3) we are awaiting the result of UPS forensic analysis.
November 10th, 2023: on Friday last week, I check on UPS website for status update. Claim is declined, UPS will contact sender for full details, and the watchbox is destroyed and must be binned:
So I am out of 338.24£, no watchbox, and I write to @c_hall100 that I want 300£ refunded. If he thinks that all that is UPS fault, it's up to him to take that fight with them, but I shall not be a part of that.
Well, the guy actually has the nerves to write me back this: "Well, I can’t quite understand why they would reject the claim. It was quite clear that the mishandling of the box caused the damage."
Like, literally UPS just rejected any responsiblity in the matter, good sir.
From there, the debate continues:
- Me: "Mishandling and absence of adequate protection of the box; for something this big and heavy, around 5kg, with lacquer being a very brittle material, no cushion was in place at the corners, the box was only wrapped in a thin paper bubble surrounding it, with some folded paper on top and at the bottom. Also the box itself was opened, and no wrapper was inside either to protect it from opening and closing violently during transport. There was basically no damper and the box had to take any blunt with full force with minimal to no protection. Final result being an absolute wreck, me down 300£, and no box. So no, definitely I am seeing that money back is due".
- Him: "I disagree with you entirely I think there was adequate protection and risks were perfectly clear to you when you asked me to send it abroad. Im not 100% sure of the forum rules surrounding this so I have contacted a sales mod for advice. I will revert back with a response and if liability does indeed lie with me then you will have your money back or we decide amicably to take a 50/50. As you can probably tell im certainly not here to cause any issues and I have had 3 years and many hundreds of perfect transaction but at this stage I ask you to Temper your tone as well".
- Me: "Well, apparently that’s not UPS opinion, since they rejected the claim, and that was not mine either from the start (ref. to all my reserves that I made clear in my message on October 27); the wrapping inside the box was very far from the "bombproof" standard commonly used in the forum, otherwise clearly all of that mess would not have happened. I captured the entirety of the wrappings in the picture that I shared with you on October 25. Not sure which risks you are talking about were "perfectly clear", what is perfectly clear was that the box weighs 5 kg, corners and cover were left unprotected, and empty space within the box allowed it to be displaced more or less freely within the containment, which certainly fragilized the box from the inside as well. What is perfectly clear is that I expected was to receive a matchbox in the same state as advertised in your announcement, I expected a "bombproof" packing appropriate to the nature of the material constituting the box; corners were crushed, and cover was crushed as well, so I don't see how you can say that the protection was enough while it clearly was not. Please add me in copy when you contact mods, I do not see that the discussion with them takes place without the buyer ? Thanks"
Opinion is given, "packaging is shocking" is the term used. I further ask two forum members I am doing business with, both tell me the same thing.
So now, @c_hall100 has unduly enriched himself, washed his hands off all responsibility, and I am out of pocket of roughly 340 GBP, and still need a watchbox.
