“Typical” eBay offering...

[Parabuteo]

I like probably most of us have a love/hate deal going on with eBay...it remains a huge venue and there are good deals in there, but man, do you have to work at it to suss ‘em out.
I have an itch for a semi-vintage, somewhat scarce/out of the ordinary Sub with full papers,that might still be obtainable reasonably- (unlike the 1680’s and so forth) so have been scouting around, this comes up and at first glance looks alright....Hess’ involvement notwithstanding...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Modern-Hol...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Take a look. If you know 168000’s you will see the dial discrepancy right quick...@smoke via PM upon my query in his own inimitable manner enlightened me on what it actually was- I was stumped, knew it was late model 5 digit but had never seen that exact configuration.

And this is what you run into over and over on the ‘bay, if not outright deception, then sketchy descriptions, omissions of info, etc. needing you to pick up a machete to hack through to the truth.

Once in a while you find something decent and occasionally even great, and fun to look for sure...educational too..I would have not known about this dial variant if not for this listing.

Of course the watch is totally devalued, oh well. Continuing the hunt. Meantime have fun figuring out exactly the dial variant and no cheating and PM’ing smoke like I did LOL!

 

[Tucker]

I like probably most of us have a love/hate deal going on with eBay...it remains a huge venue and there are good deals in there, but man, do you have to work at it to suss ‘em out.
I have an itch for a semi-vintage, somewhat scarce/out of the ordinary Sub with full papers,that might still be obtainable reasonably- (unlike the 1680’s and so forth) so have been scouting around, this comes up and at first glance looks alright....Hess’ involvement notwithstanding...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Modern-Holy-Grail-Rolex-Submariner-168000-Watch-Box-Paper-Tag-Full-Kit/391928135151?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Take a look. If you know 168000’s you will see the dial discrepancy right quick...@smoke via PM upon my query in his own inimitable manner enlightened me on what it actually was- I was stumped, knew it was late model 5 digit but had never seen that exact configuration.

And this is what you run into over and over on the ‘bay, if not outright deception, then sketchy descriptions, omissions of info, etc. needing you to pick up a machete to hack through to the truth.

Once in a while you find something decent and occasionally even great, and fun to look for sure...educational too..I would have not known about this dial variant if not for this listing.

Of course the watch is totally devalued, oh well. Continuing the hunt. Meantime have fun figuring out exactly the dial variant and no cheating and PM’ing smoke like I did LOL!

Ok. So what is the discrepancy?

 

[bill33]

Later 16610 dial for sure. Odd spacing though. Stumped also.

 

[Parabuteo]

Later 16610 dial for sure. Odd spacing though. Stumped also.

Yes. Depth line spacing unusual.... @smoke knew instantly....’09 -‘10 16610’s sometimes shared this with the the incoming 6 digit, maxi marker dial’s spacing. Not always though...I looked at dozens of pics before I found one. Random serial # was key to finding one.
View attachment 99401

View attachment 99400

 

[Parabuteo]

Ok. So what is the discrepancy?

168000 dial:
View attachment 99403
Coronet/Swiss-T<25...this is what it SHOULD have. Had a later 16610. But not a typically seen one.

 

[tripdog]

I wouldn't consider this to be a dishonest sale - except possibly by omission - if you dabble in vintage watches then it's up to you to know what your buying.
The watch has been serviced, that's all - service hands, dial, insert and that looks like a 704 crown, so replaced at service time.
The case is in good condition, and as they say in the ad, a full set for one of these watches is rare - that alone may add $1000 to it's value. The watch could be returned to it's original condition - which is what he buyer will undoubtedly do - by putting in a period correct 16800 /168000 dial, a flat 4 insert and a 703 crown - cost would be around $700 - $800 for items in very good to excellent condition.

 

[Parabuteo]

I wouldn't consider this to be a dishonest sale - except possibly by omission - if you dabble in vintage watches then it's up to you to know what your buying.
The watch has been serviced, that's all - service hands, dial, insert and that looks like a 704 crown, so replaced at service time.
The case is in good condition, and as they say in the ad, a full set for one of these watches is rare - that alone may add $1000 to it's value. The watch could be returned to it's original condition - which is what he buyer will undoubtedly do - by putting in a period correct 16800 /168000 dial, a flat 4 insert and a 703 crown - cost would be around $700 - $800 for items in very good to excellent condition.

The “possibly by omission” part is extremely common to Hess’ listings if you listen to TRF’s take on them.

I politely enquired re the dial swap, when it took place, whether done by Rolex or a Jeweler, et al -and got a QUITE stuffy initial reply- they in particular take grave exception to the term “period correct”....according to them this is a made-up thing by self-proclaimed Rolex internet experts. They held forth that a service dial is just as “period correct” as any as long as installed by Rolex at some point.

After switching my terminology to “all original” I made some progress, pulled some nails, and they disclosed more of the watches history. I agree it could be still a OK deal (depending on where ultimately it ends up $ wise) but I am ...well...cheap. I have the crown and insert...would only need a dial. It is still on my radar, but I am convinced a genuine, well priced, “period corr.....err....all-original” and fully papered watch exists in the eBay forest somewhere-having fun looking.

 

[Keylog74]

well if you looking for you
Modern Holy Grail! look no further