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Need advice

vilius69

Active Member
24/9/09
361
0
0
Hi there!

Can comebody tell me whether it is worth spending $1.000 for R.X.W. MM20 47mm or just opt for DSN's "super Fiddy" PAM127? I am thinking of getting one of these and do not know whether is it worth spending a fortune.
And the second question, if you don't mind, are DSN's RXW MM20 and "super Fiddy" od the same quality, i.e. case, bezel, glass, dial, hands etc...?

Thanks in advance,
Vilius69
 

hooligan

Mythical Poster
Advisor
24/6/06
8,332
1
38
I haven't seen a gen MM20 in the flesh, but I'd suspect it's not twice as good as DSN's version.

Yes, I would say that DSN's MM20 and Fiddy are of equivalent quality. There are differences, though. The MM20 has a solid steel case back and a much less domed sapphire crystal when compared against the Fiddy.

Good luck.
 

unregistered

Active Member
13/1/08
416
10
18
Personally, I would say that a gen MM20 is worth double a DSN version, cause I own one :)

P1050481.jpg


P1050486.jpg


P1050492.jpg


Its a brilliant watch and one which I love greatly out of all my gens. I say, if you can get it for $1000, go for it and you won't have any regrets.
 

unregistered

Active Member
13/1/08
416
10
18
But to each their own. The MM20 has an amazing history behind it, a lot of controversy, but a watch that all who have owned can attest to the amazing quality of and great wearability.

I've got more pictures in this thread if you're keen over at RG.

This is the text from the now defunct Ken Trading website about the MM20

Original P company and present P brand

What follows is a simple explanation of the difference between the P watch, which is just a modern name brand, and the original P Company which existed since its founding in Firenze in 1860 to 1993.

The company was founded in 1860 in Firenze with the name “Giovanni P Watch Shop”. In its second era it was renamed “Swiss Watch Shop” and became an agent for companies like Rolex and Patek. The family of third era Guido’s wife was in the equipment making business and was also involved in making military equipment. With an epoch making invention he created the P Company. The invention was a torpedo sighting device that made use of radium. Rolex used the dual construction system from equipment like sighting devices, depth meters, and compasses in their dials in 1939. After that, in 1956 the model that was officially sold to the Italian navy (and the Egypt navy as well) was the P Company’s completely original revolving bevel attached round type (same type as the P Company depth meters and compasses). 30 years later, in 1986, the new prototype (round) passed the army test, but recent international stability and reduction in military spending resulted in no official orders being filed. The prototype was thus put on the civilian market as a diver’s watch.

In 1993, the same year that Maria P. (strangely, the last descendant of the P family line) passed away, P Company reduced the size of the 1939 large type 47 mm diameter cushion case to 44 mm in diameter and made a model that simplified the case that had been made from curved planes consisting of complex three dimensional and flowing lines into a straight edge dominated shape (to make mass production possible at a low cost with simple manufacturing). P Company then sold this model to the army as well as risking the fate of the company by branching out into civil sales. However, it did not sell as well as expected on the civilian market, and the company’s financial situation grew worse with reductions in military spending. However, in the world of watch lovers, the value of the Rolex made military model combat diver’s watch (a rarity collection of only 250) has always been such that even if another company’s gears are inside a smaller version of the watch, many people are of the opinion that the legend of the P Company will still have more than enough name value as a “brand”.

In 1997 the group currently known as the Richemont Group (Cartier’s group) bought out the P Company, which was suffering from a broken family line and a mortal blow to its financial reserves. This new P Brand (without the superior technique that the old P Company had developed) in 1997 made a model with Rolex “Caliber 618” movement (They said, “we found this movement in P Company’s attic,” but the real facts are unknown. Doubt is cast upon this because a technician from the old P Company said that this particular Rolex movement was limited to 250 pieces. Even this was not enough pieces, so they had to use movements from Angelus. Thus, I would say that this tale of finding 60 some odd pieces lying around is a little bit odd. The “618” is a pocket watch movement, so if you collect pocket watches with the same movements in them, you can use those. And then all you have to do is rebuild them and you have a new product). For the shape, they decreased the size of the 1938 Rolex wire leg case Ref.3646 from 47 mm in diameter to 45 mm in diameter.

The watch released at the Basel Fair by P Brand, which had not been known outside the boundaries of the world of watch fans, was a strategic model designed to gather the attention of the watch industry (as well as the new watch mania) that, in order to become known outside watch fan circles intentionally used Rolex movement and rode upon the Rolex name.

1998 saw the release of a model with the exact same design as the model which the old P Company had staked its future upon (1993 44 mm diameter simplified case). The movement was a Unitus 6497. Unfortunately, instead of a dual construction dial, the illumination was simply applied on the index by standard printing. After this the new P Brand produced a variety of different watches (chrono and limited models), but to this day have yet to produce a model that has the equivalent functionality as the original (old P Company’s technology and policies). Their basic line of thought is given to precious metal type watches, so the watches stand out only as decorative pieces.

Reported last year at the Basel Fair was a model with only a few pieces received though regular channels within Japan, and case shape and the original size of 47 mm in diameter were the same as the Rolex model. But the essential antimagnetic inner case was not inserted (just a skeleton again!).

The dial was a duel construction system dial, but the base dial didn’t use antimagnetic material. The most depressing element was the dial index. The 12, 3, 6, and 9 characters were incredibly small for such a large dial face, throwing off the balance and spoiling what could have been a good design. It was unthinkable that a sensitive Italian designer could have created this layout. Also, the needle shape was different from the original. All this came to a fixed Japanese price of \880,000, next to premiere attached items of over \1,000,000. I calculated this to have a base production cost of maybe 5% (1/20) of the price. The remaining 95% would probably go towards profit and the brand name.

* Shiny models with diamonds and such have quite the mark up. They easily get in the range of at least 1/30. What a get rich scheme.

Thank you for reading such a long passage. Making the “Marina Militare” at its original size has been my dream since I started my own original watch brand, R.X.W. (formerly PRO-LEX). This project has been 5 years in the planning and has taken 1 year to produce. I can say with confidence that the splendor of this model makes having only one piece available for the 20th anniversary of R.X.W. a unique pleasure.



May 25, 2003
Ginza KEN TRADING Co., Ltd.
President/ Takeshi Sato
 

vilius69

Active Member
24/9/09
361
0
0
Thanks for your prompt answers!
Well, as Hooligan has writtent "it's not twice as good as DSN's version". On the other hand the gen costs $ 20.000. Hence, the price difference is 40 times comparing to DSN... Is it worth?...
 

unregistered

Active Member
13/1/08
416
10
18
I'm sorry but I'm having a little trouble following you

If you're asking if the gen RXW MM20 is worth the extra money versus DSN's MM20, the answer is yes.

If you're asking if the Gen PAM127 is worth the extra money versus DSN's PAM 127, then the answer is hell no IMHO. Its a beautiful watch, but no 6497 is worth that sorta cash.

If you're asking if DSN's MM20 is better than his PAM127, then it boils down to what you want.

Do you want to see the watch movement? Yes, then the 127. Do you want amazing lume, then the MM20 is more impressive. Do you want something most people won't call out, then the MM20 too would be slightly more accurate because of the closed caseback.
 

vilius69

Active Member
24/9/09
361
0
0
Unregistered,

Sorry for my blunt mind :)
Actually, my quetion is the DSN PAM127 worth extra money versus RXW MM20?
Thanks !