Well, this has been a long time in the works. I just received today the counterpart to my SeaDweller, the 1680 vintage sub. I'm very pleased with it...it came from another member, and any time I've dealt with a long-time member of this community it has been a pleasure.
I wasn't initially taken with the vintage rollies. I thought they were very expensive replicas for the money. And they are expensive- but their ability to accept genuine parts is awesome. I've been eyeing the DW Daytonas, but those are in a whole other league- and I'm not sure I'm going to go there for a while, if ever. It's interesting- I've been collecting for over a year, but now that I finally got my collection down to what I want it to be for the long-term, I was surprised to realize that out of the 5 watches I'm keeping, three are from MBK.
Before I got the vintage sub/SD, I thought that the Chinese rep makers were crazy not to have tried to rep the 1680/1665 case. I thought it would be as simple as doing a 'perfect rep' version of these watches.
The reality is much different. There is an entire spectrum of aftermarket parts that vary in quality, and this is a market that is long established. The rep-maker to take on this project would not only be venturing into a lucrative area of the rep world, but would in parallel be a new source of aftermarket parts in the much broader rolex market. No matter how good an aftermarket part can be, there's just no way to get it perfect, no matter what you try to do, and that's what makes them reps.
These watches have the ability to become almost genuine, with the exception of the movement and case...and of course you can always install a gen movement, if you should please. If I were a genuine vintage rolex collector, I would move over to creating an almost-gen watch without the hassle of servicing the expensive rolex movement or the huge $$ to have the serial # on your case.
I believe that with Rolex, it's better to try to leave as little doubt, if you're going to go for the "replica rolex", if only due to the mystique of the genuines in the shadow of the zillions of reps out there. I feel they require the gen parts on the basis that you have some confidence of knowing what is on your wrist, not to say that the 'fact' they're genuine in itself has anything to do with it, in terms of 'branding'- I'd never lose sight of the ultimate purpose or value of reps...but rather, some key parts make a disproportionate impact on the appearance of the watch. Not only that the stock MBW's are wrong...but I wouldn't want my gen sub to have an aftermarket crystal or insert, even if it is 'acceptable' within genuine Rolex collector circles.
I've still got to get the crown guards shaved down on the 1680, and a bracelet- don't think I'll go gen for that, as the older bracelets are often loose and not a great value, IMO. I have to intall an Ubi datewheel, and then she's good to go. The 1665 needs the gen 580 endlinks I've got for it installed, it was a little more touchy a process to remove the rep ones than I'd realized, and I don't want to destroy them unless necessary.
There's no getting around the advantage that gen parts make. Especially in the most 'aesthetically significant' places, a few modifications can make these watches look amazing. It doesn't necessarily have to be that expensive- if you're able to swap the crystal, the insert for a good aftermarket, and lume the dial- the reality is that you're going to be 95% of the way there. The vintage lume work done by Ziggy and others is unreal. I'm thinking about getting my SD lume touched up a bit, just because I love his lume work on these vintage dials so much.
Ah the dial. I feel that the dial is the most important feature on Rolex watches. And ironically enough, I feel they're a weak point of the MBW's. The red ones especially, but that's just obvious flaws like font and colour, etc.. not the actual quality of the dial. The vintage lume application can help, and no one's really going to call you out anyways, but I challenge those that have seen a genuine dial or even a really good re-dial to say that there isn't a significant difference. Note the coronet's, the 'X' in the name 'Rolex', and the fonts, etc...you will be tested on this information later!! :lol:
The problem is the cost involved in buying one of these dials separately, and then having it shaved down for install. I've been investigating the idea of finding a source of cheap, good re-dials, but after speaking with Oli about it (who has done much more thorough investigation) I've realized that it's probably not going to be a realistic option any time soon. That's my rant about dials... :lol:
As I just received the modded white 1680, I want to ask members: Are the dials genuine, standard MBW, or a good re-dial? :huh:
*THIS IS THE TEST*
Also, if someone knowledgable about inserts could tell me if the one on the sub is genuine, I would grateful. I think it is, but these inserts are tough sometimes...I can't remember whether it was advertised as genuine off the top of my head...
One of the easier, better mods, is to swap out the crystals for gen tropics. In this case, a T-127 and a T-39 flat-top. Gotta go with the gen crown and tube, I haven't seen a rep crown yet that quite comes up to standards- although I've been shocked at how close. The sub has a slow-beat ETA 2846 movement and is significantly less smooth than my 'stock' movement SeaDweller.
There really does come a point where you start questioning your sanity with some of these expensive pieces. I could've got lightly used gen SFSO or PO, if my understanding of their value is correct. So is this beyond the point of rationality? That's an open ended question...I basically decided to try out some of the newer watches that I was intrigued by, ended up with a larger collection than I'd really have liked, and also realized that I was not going to want to have to sell the watches I was going to end up with. If you decide to go full boat, and go for a gen insert, ubi datewheel, gen springbars, endlinks, etc.. it's venturing in the domain of diminishing returns.
I decided to re-focus my collection to higher quality 'watches' that are evaluated and kept on the basis of their fit in my collection relative to the other pieces. The modded rollies are damn near indistinguishable from the gens in appearance, if done well....and I have come to love the comfort they offer- none of my other watches, nor any of the watches that I've owned, come close to the comfort of the vintage rollies, because most of my collection before this has been dominated by modern chronographs and other large modern watches...
I always want to see wrist-shots in reviews, although I'm even worse at taking those than the still shots!
I wasn't initially taken with the vintage rollies. I thought they were very expensive replicas for the money. And they are expensive- but their ability to accept genuine parts is awesome. I've been eyeing the DW Daytonas, but those are in a whole other league- and I'm not sure I'm going to go there for a while, if ever. It's interesting- I've been collecting for over a year, but now that I finally got my collection down to what I want it to be for the long-term, I was surprised to realize that out of the 5 watches I'm keeping, three are from MBK.
Before I got the vintage sub/SD, I thought that the Chinese rep makers were crazy not to have tried to rep the 1680/1665 case. I thought it would be as simple as doing a 'perfect rep' version of these watches.
The reality is much different. There is an entire spectrum of aftermarket parts that vary in quality, and this is a market that is long established. The rep-maker to take on this project would not only be venturing into a lucrative area of the rep world, but would in parallel be a new source of aftermarket parts in the much broader rolex market. No matter how good an aftermarket part can be, there's just no way to get it perfect, no matter what you try to do, and that's what makes them reps.
These watches have the ability to become almost genuine, with the exception of the movement and case...and of course you can always install a gen movement, if you should please. If I were a genuine vintage rolex collector, I would move over to creating an almost-gen watch without the hassle of servicing the expensive rolex movement or the huge $$ to have the serial # on your case.
I believe that with Rolex, it's better to try to leave as little doubt, if you're going to go for the "replica rolex", if only due to the mystique of the genuines in the shadow of the zillions of reps out there. I feel they require the gen parts on the basis that you have some confidence of knowing what is on your wrist, not to say that the 'fact' they're genuine in itself has anything to do with it, in terms of 'branding'- I'd never lose sight of the ultimate purpose or value of reps...but rather, some key parts make a disproportionate impact on the appearance of the watch. Not only that the stock MBW's are wrong...but I wouldn't want my gen sub to have an aftermarket crystal or insert, even if it is 'acceptable' within genuine Rolex collector circles.
I've still got to get the crown guards shaved down on the 1680, and a bracelet- don't think I'll go gen for that, as the older bracelets are often loose and not a great value, IMO. I have to intall an Ubi datewheel, and then she's good to go. The 1665 needs the gen 580 endlinks I've got for it installed, it was a little more touchy a process to remove the rep ones than I'd realized, and I don't want to destroy them unless necessary.
There's no getting around the advantage that gen parts make. Especially in the most 'aesthetically significant' places, a few modifications can make these watches look amazing. It doesn't necessarily have to be that expensive- if you're able to swap the crystal, the insert for a good aftermarket, and lume the dial- the reality is that you're going to be 95% of the way there. The vintage lume work done by Ziggy and others is unreal. I'm thinking about getting my SD lume touched up a bit, just because I love his lume work on these vintage dials so much.
Ah the dial. I feel that the dial is the most important feature on Rolex watches. And ironically enough, I feel they're a weak point of the MBW's. The red ones especially, but that's just obvious flaws like font and colour, etc.. not the actual quality of the dial. The vintage lume application can help, and no one's really going to call you out anyways, but I challenge those that have seen a genuine dial or even a really good re-dial to say that there isn't a significant difference. Note the coronet's, the 'X' in the name 'Rolex', and the fonts, etc...you will be tested on this information later!! :lol:
The problem is the cost involved in buying one of these dials separately, and then having it shaved down for install. I've been investigating the idea of finding a source of cheap, good re-dials, but after speaking with Oli about it (who has done much more thorough investigation) I've realized that it's probably not going to be a realistic option any time soon. That's my rant about dials... :lol:
As I just received the modded white 1680, I want to ask members: Are the dials genuine, standard MBW, or a good re-dial? :huh:
*THIS IS THE TEST*Also, if someone knowledgable about inserts could tell me if the one on the sub is genuine, I would grateful. I think it is, but these inserts are tough sometimes...I can't remember whether it was advertised as genuine off the top of my head...
One of the easier, better mods, is to swap out the crystals for gen tropics. In this case, a T-127 and a T-39 flat-top. Gotta go with the gen crown and tube, I haven't seen a rep crown yet that quite comes up to standards- although I've been shocked at how close. The sub has a slow-beat ETA 2846 movement and is significantly less smooth than my 'stock' movement SeaDweller.
There really does come a point where you start questioning your sanity with some of these expensive pieces. I could've got lightly used gen SFSO or PO, if my understanding of their value is correct. So is this beyond the point of rationality? That's an open ended question...I basically decided to try out some of the newer watches that I was intrigued by, ended up with a larger collection than I'd really have liked, and also realized that I was not going to want to have to sell the watches I was going to end up with. If you decide to go full boat, and go for a gen insert, ubi datewheel, gen springbars, endlinks, etc.. it's venturing in the domain of diminishing returns.
I decided to re-focus my collection to higher quality 'watches' that are evaluated and kept on the basis of their fit in my collection relative to the other pieces. The modded rollies are damn near indistinguishable from the gens in appearance, if done well....and I have come to love the comfort they offer- none of my other watches, nor any of the watches that I've owned, come close to the comfort of the vintage rollies, because most of my collection before this has been dominated by modern chronographs and other large modern watches...
I always want to see wrist-shots in reviews, although I'm even worse at taking those than the still shots!