witch hunt

[pete2528ca]

Hey guys and gals...

I hope I don't piss anyone off by saying this, but this witch hunt going on with the dealers is going to come back and kick us in the ass.

Most of us have had good experiences, and many of us have had bad experiences. I have dealt with a non forum dealer for eight watches and have had six good and two bad experiences. Henry, the dealer I have ordered from has always done what he could to rectify the situation. Honestly I wish he would listen a bit more but fuck, I wish my wife would listen more too.

I recently ordered a planet ocean and a vintage panny from Andrew, which incedently was my first order with a forum dealer. In some respects I feel bad that I didn't order from my usual source, but Andrew had the watch I wanted. I am waiting for the watches to arrive, and will post what they are like, but I know the PO is in Canada, and the Panny which was sent a five days later just left Singapore. I will be honest and say I am a bit pissed that he didn't ship together, and even more pissed that he shipped my panny by regular air mail which will certainly take a week longer to arrive, BUT communication has been good, and I am sure I will be happy with the outcome.

Lately all this talk about dealers that are liars, how anal we are with reps, etc etc is getting a bit silly now. We are playing a dangerous game here. There are no guarantees that the product we recieve we will like, and there is no guarantee it will work forever.

I was mad that my 111H had a minor defect on the dial, (a tiny spot visible only in certain light). I was going to send it back, but then thought would the next one be better or worse? Of the eight watches I have bought for myself and my friends, this one had the BEST fit and finish. My 127 I got from Henry, while it looks great, and has the sapphire crystal, the bezel isnt installed perfect and is raised a half a hair on the crown guard side, and the tube that the crown rests on is crooked and when closed the crown sits a bit crooked. again nothing major, but obviously quality control issues.

What to do, What to do.

Honestly, if we are mad at the dealers, don't order, me personally, whatever...if it costs a bit more at least we can get it.

Lets give these guys a break.

Just my two cents worth.

Pietro

 

[caravaggio]

OK.

The threads are becoming more and more rampid on the "bad dealer" topic...

All these threads will certainly mutate the mood and create a certain point in time of anger, disgust and redefinition of terms and expectations....

But I feel we need one or two master minds, two people with strong leadership and insight, that will monitor this so that this wave of disenchantment does not get out of hand, because it can.

Yes, we have the buying power, yes we can walk the protest and hurt the dealers' wallet but we must be careful that these militant approaches do not backfire on the well menaing people who wish to keep buying reps....


Now, these watches are illegal, fakes, knockoffs.... we need to remember that this is a hardly a business and more a money making "operation".... real legitimate businesses hold business licences, follow professional business practices, some businesses answer to outside agencies for accountability and customer service (Better Business Bureau) and some even require operating ethics and mission statements: the rep "operation" is not obliged to adhere to any of the above mentions.... they ought not to because of their clandestine nature.

So, for us to expect utmost professional business conduct from shady unkown Makers and distant "unlicensed" untrained" dealers is a tad unrealistic.

Simple honesty? HHMMM...can you regulate that like we do in governments and larger retail businesses? NOPE
Simple moral conduct and integrity? WHY? They are in this sneaky illegal gig to make money, not because they love every one of us... They dont have to answer to us like we answer to our wives or parents or bosses..

Simple courtesy?? Maybe...but again, they seem to be in the advantage here because they have the watches we crave and therefore they feel they should be able to dictate how their business should be run and what terms need to be in place, not us the eager watch geeks with open wallets.

Little white lies? Sure, why not? There are very few businesses in this world that absolutely will not lie at all: most will tell a cute little white lie to boost their sales or entice you to buy their second grade junk. It happens every day, on all four corners of the world. And from my own experience, little white lies are super common in aall business areas in ASIA...it is almost part of many Asian cultures: a little white lie.

i actually believe that we are not a huge protion of those dealers' market. I am sure we are significant but does any of us truly know how vital we are to their business?

It is a good idea to speak out and unite and form some kind of coalition or front but we must do it carefully, wisely and with a foresight enough so the odds of success are on our side and not theirs.

My small two cents

 

[Hambone]

Pete, thank you for your post. "Witch Hunt" about sums it up. For the life of me I cannot understand how so many people are getting worked up about sellers of counterfeit watches making a very small number of mis-representations. I expect them to lie from time to time. If you set such high standards for counterfeit watch merchants them you are gonna get the wind kicked out of your sails. By and large these guys offer a wide range of high quality replicas that are priced most fairly, especially when compared to the scam sites infesting the net. People need to get a grip and take a look at the reality of the situation. We are not dealing with nuns in a convent.

 

[pete2528ca]

Lies, lies, lies.

Lets sum this up.

I work for the government, I collect taxes, I hear lies every day.

I have a four year old daughter, she lies too (daddy, I didnt break your model car, it just fell out of the glass case).

i have a wife, she NEVER lies (oh, my old dirty torn up rugby shorts that i keep in MY closet just dissapeard).

we here lies every day, what makes this different.

Lets just grow up and move on.

pietro

 

[drhydro]

We are not dealing with nuns in a convent.

Nor are we monks in a monastery!

I agree with you folks; even with the best of intentions, this stuff goes right up the chain to the manufacturers- take a look at last week's New Yorker article on counterfeits.

New or old 7750? 21.6 or 28.8 kbph? Can't tell the difference without careful examination, and even standard sampling techniques don't yield 100% good product, especially in this untraceable chain.

This subject needs careful reflection and cool heads.

 

[drfcfighter]

I mean... although none of our beloved dealers are violent druglord pimp assholes, they are still, in the business of counterfeit goods no matter how good the counterfeit is.

We do from time to time expect them to hold up QC as if we'd bought goods from AD's, which I think is unfair given the price of the watches; we get what we pay for. I still reserve the right to bitch and moan if my goods got messed with, but I still can't escape the fact that it would be analogous to bitching and moaning if my weed dealer sold me a bad dime bag. Only thing I can do is try to get another bag but if that falls through, who am I gonna complain to? Cops?

My 2 cents.

 

[BurgerFlaggen]

Anyone here ever purchase an automobile from a dealership?
Naw, you've never been lied to.

Worked in the industry for a brief period, until I had trouble looking at myself in the mirror in the morning before my shift.
I guess I found that I have a soul after all. I cannot even begin to enumerate the volume of lies I witnessed, some of them spiteful and intended to do harm - especially if the customer made the sales manager angry. Don't even get me started on the service department.

Yes lies occur in our hobby, whether from dealers or manufacturers, or both.
There is nothing you can do about it, unless it is to rally and raise such a stink that you drive them elsewhere to calmer waters. <I know this will be quoted out of context lol :roll:
This is not to say that we should handle them with kid gloves, but merely to treat them with an even hand and employ reasonable expectations.

And, Don't Email Them 5 Minutes After Your Order To Check Status.
Remember in some cases your item is traveling thousands of miles and making a trip through customs.

 

[cybee]

It's nice to see some views from the other side of the fence...I'm not sure where it will all end up but one thing is for sure, it makes us talk about something other than watches... who would ever think the rep world would have so much drama lol..agendas and crusades lol... maybe the ghost of Banwash wielding his wrath upon us all.

Hambone wrote: We are not dealing with nuns in a convent. :lol:

Where is Klink? "life is good"

 

[caravaggio]

Good question.

Where is Klink?

 

[CISO1969]

...and now the "hey these guys aren't that bad, maybe if I post something nice, at least MY order will be handled well" kinda posts start appearing.

Yep, guys, everyone here has had there "great experience" with the 4 --myself included. The point is, they are getting greedy and not treating people very well when they make a mistake, and heck--even outright lied about quality.

So is it ok that they F over other people, just as long as you get your cool watch and are considered one of the cool people they deal with?

How many pieces of flair will you wear to get that next cool watch

CISO

 

[caravaggio]

...and now the "hey these guys aren't that bad, maybe if I post something nice, at least MY order will be handled well" kinda posts start appearing.

Yep, guys, everyone here has had there "great experience" with the 4 --myself included. The point is, they are getting greedy and not treating people very well when they make a mistake, and heck--even outright lied about quality.

So is it ok that they F over other people, just as long as you get your cool watch and are considered one of the cool people they deal with?

How many pieces of flair will you wear to get that next cool watch

CISO

Actually i am done owning reps.

i have a gen Tag and one rep and I dont need to suck off any dealer on this forum or elsewhere. I will post what I feel, you will post what you feel. If you want to make this a duel of wits, of reason of brutal force, you can skip me.

 

[CISO1969]

Nope just exercising my freedom to post and be heard as are you....

"everything is beautiful, in it's own way...."

Fade, birds, sunset.............

 

[cybee]

...and now the "hey these guys aren't that bad, maybe if I post something nice, at least MY order will be handled well" kinda posts start appearing.

Yep, guys, everyone here has had there "great experience" with the 4 --myself included. The point is, they are getting greedy and not treating people very well when they make a mistake, and heck--even outright lied about quality.

So is it ok that they F over other people, just as long as you get your cool watch and are considered one of the cool people they deal with?

How many pieces of flair will you wear to get that next cool watch

CISO

no it is not OK to F over people...but no matter what changes occur, people will still be F'd...forgive me I'm still trying to reconcile all the differences of opinions because I still don't think we have all the facts yet...for me there are arguments on both sides, guess I'm just not smart enough to see it all.
...cybee gang of one...

 

[caravaggio]

...and now the "hey these guys aren't that bad, maybe if I post something nice, at least MY order will be handled well" kinda posts start appearing.

Yep, guys, everyone here has had there "great experience" with the 4 --myself included. The point is, they are getting greedy and not treating people very well when they make a mistake, and heck--even outright lied about quality.

So is it ok that they F over other people, just as long as you get your cool watch and are considered one of the cool people they deal with?

How many pieces of flair will you wear to get that next cool watch

CISO

no it is not OK to F over people...but no matter what changes occur, people will still be F'd...forgive me I'm still trying to reconcile all the differences of opinions because I still don't think we have all the facts yet...for me there are arguments on both sides, guess I'm just not smart enough to see it all.
...cybee gang of one...

Come on, dont say that about yourself...
Only smart people would know how to effectively express an opinion and you did that.

:wink:

 

[drfcfighter]

@ paneraifreak:

not to get off the topic, but I really can't get my eyes off your avatar... very sexy.

mmmmm....

 

[CISO1969]

wait there is something above it's breasts.........aaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[caravaggio]

@ paneraifreak:

not to get off the topic, but I really can't get my eyes off your avatar... very sexy.

mmmmm....

You like it....dont ya???

HHHMMMM

What ur doin Friday nite, BIG boy.

:wink:

 

[d4m.test]

Is someone taking toll of how many posts are on this forum about this subject?

yes it is wrong for anyone to lie about a product.

yes its ok for them to make the prices the same across the board (thats business)

yes they are going to lie.. directly or indirectly, kinda hard to tell eh?

yes.. thats my million dollar answer.. if you bought something and it wasn't right.. contact the seller, see what happens.. its a gamble any way you look at it. if you didn't have the few bills to spend on a watch, then you shouldn't have bought it.. if you wanted perfection, you should have gotten a gen. its that simple.

only post I haven't seen is from the guy(s) that bought the br with the bad movement, and what the dealers response was to him, maybe I missed it, but my guess is something was done to fix it.. but, atm thats just a guess.


---------------------

My opinions in ANY of my posts no way reflect this forum or anyone else. They are my opinions and no one else's. If you wish to make a complaint about my opinions, please feel free to write it down on the courtesy card that is offered at the door, and place it in that 50 gallon circular filing cabinet sitting right outside.

 

[inconsistent]

Even though I'm still pretty new around here, I thought I'd chime in with my perception regarding this "cartel".

First off, outright lying is wrong. Twisting or crafting facts is...well, marketing. Not defending a misrepresentation of the truth here, just an observation. Like when the cigarette companies said, "more doctors recommend Camels than any other brand". The implication was, "hey, these must be good for you", (or at least harmless). The truth was, (maybe) more doctors smoke Camels.

It isn't surprising to me that a manufacturer who makes a product that is intended to replicate the original, might in fact do the same with the movement.

As to the "Gang of Four" banding together, it could be a positive move for us. I have read that manufacturers are reluctant to update or change a particular model if it is selling well. By banding together and offering the factory volume, said factory might consider updateing/improving an existing model to satisfy the increased demand of the end user to have better QC and nearer "perfect" pieces.

If I were one of those dealers who took the initiative to do this and made the investment, you can be damn sure I would want to protect both the distribution and price of these items. Let's not forget that at worst, even these high end models are about 1/10th the cost of a gen. Add to that fact that you have a network of dealers who will actually deliver a product and in most cases, take care of any problems. That to me has a high value. We all know of sites that will sell you a cheap Canal Street quality product, call it Swiss and charge a Grand for it. RWI is a great resourse.

As for me, I doubt I will ever buy from an overseas dealer for obvious reasons.

Caveot Emptor!

 

[wilson34]

I'm still waiting

...and now the "hey these guys aren't that bad, maybe if I post something nice, at least MY order will be handled well" kinda posts start appearing.

Yep, guys, everyone here has had there "great experience" with the 4 --myself included. The point is, they are getting greedy and not treating people very well when they make a mistake, and heck--even outright lied about quality.

So is it ok that they F over other people, just as long as you get your cool watch and are considered one of the cool people they deal with?

How many pieces of flair will you wear to get that next cool watch

CISO

I agree with not treating people very well.....I posted my problem with a watchI received on Saturday and I am still waiting for a return shipping instructions. I recentely asked the dealer--in a round about way- if I could upgrade my watch from the asian movment to the swiss eta and split the differance for the inconvience. He tells me the charge will be $140.00 to upgrade to the swiss steelfish, because both the crystal and the movement will need to be switched out.
you would think the dealer would offer something for the inconvience?????? This will most likely be the last rep i buy