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SeaGull ST-19 (Asian copy of Venus)

By-Tor

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This is the Seagull ST-19 hand wind movement (Asian copy of Venus movement). It's used in various replicas (for example in the hand wind rep version of Omega Moon Watch). Often mistakenly called as "Lemania", even by some dealers. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with real Lemania movement...except it's also wound by hand.

Reference picture:

venus2.jpg
 

kye_lin

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4/12/06
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Is it possible to get an original Lemania movement?? How difficult is that?? Expensive?? Thanks.

Kai
 

Up4anything

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14/5/06
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Would it be wrong to assume then that in a 3-register chrono, the "6" sub--dial continually rotates even when the chrono is stopped?
 

crick

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1/8/06
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here's the real lemania i found from a google search for comparison. I dont know what it is? Omega Cal 321? a lemania 1877???

moonwatch_back.jpg
 

horologie_unitas

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3/12/06
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i have a real one in my Heuer Monaco....from the late 60's i think....sorry but i wont rip it out for you.
it is a wonderful movement and i had mine serviced 2 years ago....to bad....its hidden under a solid case back...
goodluck finding one, should be not so easy.
 

Novesh

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I'm sure the fake lemania mvmt which is in our reps is still very awesome...and dependable.
 

Pix

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Hi,

just ordered a PATEK Classic Vintage Chrono with the Seagull movement.
How (un?)reliable ist it ? I must assert that I was afraid to purchase a Chrono with the 7750, so I went to the "Lemania" movement.
Thanks for your comments.

PP0022.JPG
 

crick

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i heard the asian copy is very reliable.

So now i'm confused...

a "seagull" movement is actually a copy of the "Venus" movement?

seagull is the company that copied venus? (asian company that copied venus movement) ?
 

Pix

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crick said:
a "seagull" movement is actually a copy of the "Venus" movement?
Hi Crick !
Yes, that's what I understood too. As inaccurate as a copy can be. I would be most pleased that this Chrono movement could last a bit longer than the 7750.... :oops:
 

Klink

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Sea-Gull Venus copy named by some dealers Lemania

is built like a tank..

excellent..

no matter what it is called, is good movement..

and, it looks just the same in pictures no matter what the name..

lol

sum people want to 'protect' people who do not now and are not

much likely to ever know the difference... but the pictures

tell the story.. only the names have changed here and there..

: )
 

hooligan

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Yep, what Klinky said.

The ST19 is a rock solid movement and is used in TONS of watches. Check the Chinese watch forum on watchuseek.com for more info.
 

Pix

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Hi,
thx for your answers, I must say I wished to hear this answer. :)
As its manual winding, is there a risk of overwinding ? How to behave for winding it ? 20-30-40 times ? Any expert opinion ?
Thx again for your great support here.

(I should get my watch this week !!!!) :D
 

lovepanerai

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28/7/06
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when winding it you can feel more resistance when it is almost fully wound, slow down your winding action until you feel a stop. Don't try to force it beyond that point since you can overwind it and would probably damage the movement. The same holds true for most manual wound movements such as the Unitas/ETA 6497, ect.
 

Pix

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Great !
Sorry for such a newbie question :)
But before starting buying reps, I was not aware that hand winding movements still existed, I was only used to Quartz. :oops:
 

cybee

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23/11/06
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lovepanerai said:
when winding it you can feel more resistance when it is almost fully wound, slow down your winding action until you feel a stop. Don't try to force it beyond that point since you can overwind it and would probably damage the movement. The same holds true for most manual wound movements such as the Unitas/ETA 6497, ect.

...Iv'e noticed too that the Asian movements I have when winding I do not feel any resistance compared to the ETA movements in my other watches...I have never been able to figure out why. One would think as the mainspring gets tighter it would naturally become tighter to wind.. :? I've never understood the "overwinding" thing. Isn't enery released at the same rate whether fully wound or half wound?....which part of the movement gets damaged when fully wound? I need enlightenment... :) :)
 

supermanx

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I'm totally talking out of my ass, but I believe "overwinding" can result in damage to the mainspring and winding gears. It's like putting too much torque on a bolt... something is going to get screwed up, maybe not the first time but eventually.
 

cybee

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supermanx said:
I'm totally talking out of my ass, but I believe "overwinding" can result in damage to the mainspring and winding gears. It's like putting too much torque on a bolt... something is going to get screwed up, maybe not the first time but eventually.

..well now I'm talking out of my a** too, but the mainspring stores all the energy. The gears do not speed up, they move at the same rate. Seems to me the pallet lever takes the most beating as is releases energy against the escape wheel. Oh well I'm obviously missing something...may be cause I have not had beakfast yet... :) :)
 

Olga

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2/4/06
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Overwinding depends on the way the mainspring is wound against the barrel. In automatics that I have personally looked at the mainspring has been like this one picture (Picture orginally posted by RBJ).
mainspringunwound.jpg


You can see at the end the spring forms a Y. This Y provides resistance against the side of the mainspring barrel so that the spring can be wound. At some point however, it can slip. So you would not be able to overwind this mainspring as it would just slip at some point. On the other hand some mainsprings have a small indent or puncture that attaches to a piece of metal on the barrel. On this type you will feel the winding stop when the spring is fully wound. If you continue to wind the movement by forcing it beyond this point, something has got to give. Most likely you will pull the mainspring off its attachment point, but something else in the winding mechanism could be damaged also.

As far as power goes. The mainspring has more energy when it is fully wound versus when it is close to it's unwound state. It is the job of the escapement to regulate this energy regardless of the diminshing power of the mainspring as it unwinds.
 

cybee

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..thanks Olga: Here is a pic of barrel from an old Semca watch grandpa cybee had. The watch was made in the 30's I believe and to my knowledge never cleaned...The spring was similar to the one you showed in the picture but the Y at the end of the spring not as long in my watch...also there is a notch in the barrel I am assuming to keep it from slipping when wound..notch is visible in upper right corner...funny thing too in Don de Carle's book he lists the 5 main reasons mainsprings break and in top 5 reasons not one of them is due to overwinding... :? thanks for the explanation though.. :)

barrelSmall.jpg