Rotor not rotating, no self winding on Noob Omega CrPo A2836

[orm]

Hello friends, i recently received a beutiful Omega CrPo with Asian 2836 movement. Couldnt be happier with this watch.

Slight problem tho, i need to manually wind it as the rotor is barely moving when swirling or moving the clock.
I am aware that this is sometimes to be expected in the rep game and accept it.

A pic to visualise and make sure i use the right words:

I am somewhat handy and can read and follow a tutorial, but also a complete beginner with this so a few pointers would be very appreciated.

I have read and watched and have three suggestions of my own:

Clean the complete movement in alcohol and lube it with some mineral oil
Clean the ball bearing connecting the rotor to the rest of the movement and lube with mineral oil
Replace the ball bearing

Im not 100% sure on how to do the first two suggestions.

All input and help greatly appreciated.

vbr
Daniel

 

[KBH]

My first suggestion is to not even consider trying to clean and lube the movement. You apparently don't have a clue on how to do that properly. Second, the ball bearing is probably not the problem. Even lubing the rotor should only be done with the proper watch oils and most amateurs would have a tendency to way over-oil it.

At best, you should open the case back and see if you can tell why the rotor is not freely moving. It's quite possible that it could just be loose and needs the screw tightened. If other than that, you can't find any screws loose or any apparent reason why it's not winding I would suggest you let a watch smith take a look at it.

 

[orm]

Thank you for your reply.

As soon as my friction ball arrives i will have a careful look at it.

As for handing it to a watch smith, the ones i would trust don't deal with replicas and the kiosks that do handle them are butchers. Id rather have a stab at it myself. It's not the end of the world if i ruin it.

With that said, the TD that sold the watch to me has offered to repair it but i really dont want to go through the hassle with shipping. But i will if that is the only option left.

 

[Raddave]

Mineral oil and alcohol? YIKES !


Why would you clean the whole movement when the auto wind wasnt working ?


Please be very careful

(I have visions of you dunking the whole thing in mineral oil )

 

[orm]

Hehe well i wouldn't, really. I would do as described here: http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/...ppreciated!?p=2188872&viewfull=1#post-2188872

That is of course not "the whole movement". English is not my first language and i'm not down with the nomenclature yet.

And since i started this thread i found this:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/...tures-with-Explorer-2-(auto-wind)-Episode-Two
And have ordered some tools. (Lubricant needles, tweezers, screwdrivers)
All i need now is the correct lubricant.

 

[Capt. Obvious]

When you say BARELY moving, can you expand?

Also try opening the case and giving the rotor a GENTLE spin and see what you get. Then take some more (closer pics) and post them here!

 

[orm]

It does move, sometimes. Like a quarter of a turn .... back and forth. Sometimes it stops moving. If i really angle and shake it i can make it spin a complete revolution. But i don't like to shake the watch.

I have held a few gen Omega CrPo and watched quite a few service tutorials on ETA movements so i know how a rotor should behave. This behaves kinda sticky.

Thanks for the suggestion, as soon as my friction ball arrives i will open it up and use my 105mm macro lens on the dslr to snap a few good macro's. It might take a while tho.

 

[orm]

A short video clip of how it behaves. (vidme was not supported for embedding unfortunatly)

https://vid.me/e/XQ1I

 

[KBH]

It kind of looks like it might be hitting the edge of the case back. Anyway, the only way to diagnose what's going on is to open it up and see what's going on. Most logical and simplest problem is that the screw holding the rotor on is a little loose. Hopefully that's all it is.

 

[orm]

So finally my friction ball arrived and i opened her up. Unfortunately it was not so easy as a loose screw. The rotor is perfectly tightened. If i loosen the screw a bit so i get a bit of play in the rotor it rotates a little more easy but snags on the edges sometimes and the screw un-scews itself after awhile.

I removed the rotor for inspection and found some sticky dirt on the underside. For sure this is it i thought! I cleaned it and assembled the rotor again. Still the same behaviour. Its just kinda feels like it strains against something in the movement.

Movie, be sure to watch in HD

Pic, click for larger image:


Any suggestions?

I feel i have three options now:

1) return it to TD, cheapest
2) i have found a local WS, safest and fastest i guess
3) get amazing tips from you guys and keep tinkering, most interesting

Thanks in advance!

 

[Milkbread]

Might consider taking out the auto winding mechanism plate. There might be some debris as it looks like its only the left half which is affected

 

[orm]

Thanks for the suggestion Milkbread

My adventures with this movement continues. I received some magnifying glasses, watch oil & oiling needles/pens so i felt it was time to try to remove auto winding mechanism and fiddle with that and the rotor.

It was fun, and frustrating.

The first thing i discovered was that the ball bearing on the rotor was crap. After some generous oiling it got a little better. Still not rotating freely. Still feels like its broken. I have had a lot with ball bearings to do for both skateboarding wheels and my bicycles. I feel i know when something is off. It just feels gritty and not smooth when trying to rotate the rotor on the ball bearing. I will ask my TD for a new one.

More troubling was that this screw pictured was impossible to loosen. No way for me to dismantle the autowind movement for cleaning. I think i will ask my TD for a replacement.

All gears pictured here turns easy and smoothly. I'm afraid thats not enough, i cant verify that the sandwich gears work as intended.

A question regarding this second picture, and i would really appreciate some input from people that knows ETA Clone 2836.
When i wind the movement using the crown, gear A turns and in turn rotates gear B. My guess is that this winds the main spring.
When i try to use the autowind mechanism, there is no way in hell that gear B moves in the slightest.
Q: Is this because i have manually wound the movement and the tension in the spring prevents gear B from moving or is this from a dirty malfunctioning auto wind mechanism?

All input and suggestions greatly appreciated.

I hope that my TD will provide me with a new rotor & auto wind mechanism free of charge or for a small cost. It would be fun to try to fix this myself. But i will wait for some input from the more knowledgable people here before requesting this.

Thanks in advance!

 

[KBH]

You are correct, A and B wind the mainspring via the stem as you rotate the crown. When you put on the autowind module and spin the rotor that large B gear moves so slowly that you would need to put a little pencil mark on it and rotate the rotor about 15 times before you would see it move enough to notice.

 

[P4GTR]

KBH is very knowledgeable, I have nothing to add/change just offering a possible solution...

I agree the problem is most likely in the winding bridge. A very nice option is to just purchase the entire assembly as one unit from Ofrei. It is part [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT]ETA-2836-2-1134-1141-GP

It is listed as "[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT]ETA 2836-2 Framework For Automatic Device With Wheels & Gold Plated Bridge Attached"

if they won't sell you the entire unit (they say it is for TZ watch school students, but you should be ok) you can use that part listing as an all inclusive list of the parts needed for your repair.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[KBH]

Also, a couple of things: There is a video on YouTube about how to change the rotor bearing on an ETA Rotor. I would think they would also fit the Asian rotor.

And, if you think the winding gears are just dirty or gummed up, you could try dipping them or the whole module in lighter fluid. Lot's of watch makers used to use that for cleaning movements back in the "olden" days. I doubt it could hurt anything other than remove the oil in the jewels but these movements aren't made to last 20 years and if it works for 5 years you're probably going to have moved on to another watch by then anyway.

 

[egroegart]

also, do you have a good set of precision screwdrivers? I say this because I used to have the same exact problem trying to get screws out before I got a good set. It really makes a huge difference. You won't gauge the screw heads like that and it's so much easier to get a good bite on the screws with a good set.

cheap sets are ok for bracelet links, but on the inside of the watch I really recommend a good quality screwdriver set. You don't have to get a crazy expensive one though either.

 

[orm]

You are correct, A and B wind the mainspring via the stem as you rotate the crown. When you put on the autowind module and spin the rotor that large B gear moves so slowly that you would need to put a little pencil mark on it and rotate the rotor about 15 times before you would see it move enough to notice.

thank you for this info.

I agree the problem is most likely in the winding bridge. A very nice option is to just purchase the entire assembly as one unit from Ofrei. It is part ETA-2836-2-1134-1141-GP

It is listed as "ETA 2836-2 Framework For Automatic Device With Wheels & Gold Plated Bridge Attached"

if they won't sell you the entire unit (they say it is for TZ watch school students, but you should be ok) you can use that part listing as an all inclusive list of the parts needed for your repair.

I Will look into this. Many thanks.

Also, a couple of things: There is a video on YouTube about how to change the rotor bearing on an ETA Rotor. I would think they would also fit the Asian rotor.

i have watched tjat and thought about purchasing the gen bearing. I do however feel that i lack the proper tools for this. I mean a press?

And, if you think the winding gears are just dirty or gummed up, you could try dipping them or the whole module in lighter fluid. Lot's of watch makers used to use that for cleaning movements back in the "olden" days. I doubt it could hurt anything other than remove the oil in the jewels but these movements aren't made to last 20 years and if it works for 5 years you're probably going to have moved on to another watch by then anyway.

i have Naphta and wife's nail polish remover. Naphta should work right?

also, do you have a good set of precision screwdrivers? I say this because I used to have the same exact problem trying to get screws out before I got a good set. It really makes a huge difference. You won't gauge the screw heads like that and it's so much easier to get a good bite on the screws with a good set.

cheap sets are ok for bracelet links, but on the inside of the watch I really recommend a good quality screwdriver set. You don't have to get a crazy expensive one though either.

Nope, as evident by the macro shot on the screw I have crap screwdrivers. Have not been able to source anything good locally and the china ones I got from eBay are crap. The guy in the vid above, I have watched a lot of his vids. The screwdrivers he uses look awesome. I want those! I will keep looking.

Thanks everyone who chimes in, very appreciated.

 

[orm]

So, for anyone interested, i am now kind of done with this

After reading a tutorial on reshaping screwdrivers i managed to grind these cheap ebay screwdrivers to a flat & ok point. Thus enabling me to de-assemble the autowind mechanism, inspect all gears & reverse wheels. It all look and feel fine.

I even managed to re-assemble it!

I am now 100% sure the problem is the faulty rotor bearing and my TD will try to source me a new one.

Purely out of curiosity, maybe someone could answer some questions/thoughts that has popped up during my research and experiments (i'm looking at you KBH )

Cleaning the reversing wheels is hard. You cannot take them apart due to the complicated small part mechanism sandwiched in them.
Altho you can clean them, oiling the correct parts is tricky.
A gummed up reversing wheel can however be made usable with just cleaning, but at the cost of longevity. Or just oiling the jewels in the bridge plates may help depending on the problem.

Another option is to purchase parts 1488.5 & 1530 from cousinsuk/ofrei for roughly £20

Regarding using CousinsUk, when searching for 1488.5, many results are presented. With different prices ... does it matter what result one uses for purchase? It kinda confuses me a little.

I must say that i am impressed with what we get for a few hundred bucks. These movements are no joke

 

[KBH]

Originally ETA didn't suggest cleaning or oiling the reversing gears. They were meant for replacement only. They later showed as cleanable with an ultrasonic machine and the correct cleaning solutions. If you read the instructions for the 2892/3 movements it shows cleaning and no oiling yet the ETA 2824/36 shows cleaning and oiling of the gears. So take your pick.

The one gear that has at least two iterations is the early no jeweled one and the later jeweled one
and it's usually the more expensive one that goes bad first. But I would suggest replacing both since it's kind of difficult to tell which one is not working correctly.

Here's how they work as you turn the rotor in different directions:

 

[nimnul]

Repmakers dont have acccess to new swiss etas, it is used movements of varying status. Never buy "swiss", go for the asian clines as they are new. If you buy "swiss" be prepaired to get them overhauled or do it yourself.