About the ROO glass not being Sapphire

[jessen007]

lol I just realized its Crazy11's video... I knew that rolex didn't look gen

 

[buffedupboy]

I can confirm that my Black themes is mineral crystal. So is my JPM. Now I'm thinking whether to get sapphire replacement crystals made with the correct chamfer and height.....

 

[c888]

hmm.. so when ordering a roo or diver.. Do i need to ask for water test QC and a tapping on the glass video?... lol Jk.

but they TD' can test with a diamond tester? so be up to the TD to complain to the factory? or avoid noob ap's?

I'm assuming this is a new happening? I just "tapped" on my roo's and seemed to have a low thud..

 

[trailboss99]

Well, I just tested my EOD with a diamond tester and it's sapphire so it's not a universal issue.

 

[trailboss99]

so be up to the TD to complain to the factory?

And you know what the factory will say? "So what?"
That won't even register on their GAF meter guys.

 

[SheriffWho]

Well, I just tested my EOD with a diamond tester and it's sapphire so it's not a universal issue.

I suspect its a "what do we have lying around?" Issue. I heard someone here say their 4.1 was mineral. I'm 99% certain mine is sapphire... This is based on the noise test but also the unintended abuse tests from my 3 year old getting hold of it and banging his matchbook car into it for a whole minute when I noticed and got it back. Not even a scratch!

So, this tells me that the issue is probably hit and miss on some models and perhaps more rampant amongst others... My panda is definitely sapphire, and my black theme is mineral. Good news though, this is not a super expensive nor overly difficult fix. But it would be nice to have tds either fess up in the descriptions or provide a true test as part of QC process...


..

 

[R2D4]

Be wary of any water test because the AR coating can change the way the water rolls off. The diamond tester is the best way.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[trailboss99]

I suspect its a "what do we have lying around?" Issue.
..

And I think you hit the nail on the head with that. Exactly right, they don't give a stuff as 99% of their buyers would not know. "Will that fit?" "Yes." "Then use it."

 

[mydnytrydr]

Unless TD says crystal is saphire, and it turns out to be mineral, I don't see a problem..

 

[rbj69]

Hi, i was asked to chime in ,, it is not universal and i really want to make this clear , there are different grades of sapphire, chinese grade which is well chinese , lol and u got german, swiss grades which are the best ,, believe it or not usa ,and just about all countries make synthetic sapphire ,, but i believe the worst is chinese so even a cheap diamond test which is what i have cant grade them ,, i ordered something better but my crystal lab has the high tech stuff to find colors in sapphire , mineral , or whatever lens they choose and can grade them and give u numbers i dont understand but what it boils down to is a certain few really suck that it is mineral glass and then it really sucks we have some with a pink hue in sapphire ,, its all over the board and weird thing is years ago before i got sick we never had issues like this because it wasnt $500 dollar watches with asian movment ticking time bombs ,,, u actually got swiss movement for under $75 yes dirty ones but real just the same , lol anyway i am gathering some info and will soon be able to fix this problem cheaply hopefully ,, the only bugger on roos other than divers is the damn beveled edge and size variations are all over the board and thickness, mainly cost is in those special cuts ,, anyway if u need help with some more answers and i can be of help please lmk
thanks
joe

 

[rbj69]

And I think you hit the nail on the head with that. Exactly right, they don't give a stuff as 99% of their buyers would not know. "Will that fit?" "Yes." "Then use it."

surplus what u got is what they say then replicate it

 

[rbj69]

most dealers have no clue or really care ,, think about it , if they advertised mineral glass and it flawless most would buy if they love the watch, i would !

also a chinese sapphire cost me about 15 bucks ,, so they are cheap for them to put in, but a high grade sapphire would knock your socks off ,, big cost difference try buying a gen ap sapphire crystal ,, thousand bucks ,, when i work on gens that have been abused i never see the crystal scratched and i have seen some ones that the ti bezel was dented like the customer hit it with a nail on the edge of the bezel and glass meet ,, the bezel couldnt take it but the glass stayed in tact , crazy huh?

also i have see a watch crystal chinese sapphire with very little pressure shatter like nothing or like mineral glass even so it checked out on the cheap diamond tester
joe

 

[buffedupboy]

Um.... I suggest we don't go down this whole chinese suck route..... To be more specific, Chinese factories produce different sapphire crystals for watches. The quality will depend on which country the material comes from. Sapphires come in different hardnesses, hues, clarity etc. Chinese factories can produce pretty much any type of sapphire provided they have the source. And it all boils down to price. 10 bucks may seem trivial to you and me, but if they are making and selling thousands of watches a month.... suddenly it ain't trivial anymore.

You know, it's really funny reading some of the comments, because we make it out as if the chinese factories are the delusional ones, but let me be clear that we the consumers are the crazy ones instead. To these guys, it is clear, they are making 'replica watches'. They are not actually making a 'watch'. The goal is to create something that resembles a watch of a famous brand, because that is what consumers want and know.

Brands are not stupid either, they sell a sapphire crystal for a grand and we go, ah... because it's quality and swiss made.... The best clarity sapphires which are colourless come from Japan. Many swiss watches have slightly pink hued sapphires, panerai especially. But the best sapphires in the world doesn't cost a grand to manufacture.... Maybe if you are grinding it by hand on a freaking stone wheel in the swiss alps.

 

[ddc]

As i said... If this is true WE HAVE A PROBLEM... Most TD sites state ROO glass as "sapphire with swiss standards AR" and all that BS...

 

[TESLA760]

Unless your Td checks the sapphire with a tester they will not know either, factories are well know to switch movements, parts and crystals! Do you think the noob factory is gonna say, heh dealers this next batch is mineral crystal, hell no they will fit and say nada:wyliehelp:
If they save a buck they will, we all know the noob roos are over priced, with movements that still crap out, but they are the only factory making it and can demand what they want, and we will pay!

Great wisdom here. Think twice before you start pestering a TD about this.

 

[torobravo]

I've just read a really worrying statement on another post. Some guy scratched the glass of his ROO rather easily....WTF! And apparently his glass is not sapphire...I've also read that the glass of the 57th street is definitely NOT sapphire.
Most ROO are around 500 USD so... WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
I suggest investigating deeper into this issue and create a sticky with which ROO have sapphire and which don't so we as a community don't get scammed...
We can start gathering info on this post...

I can say the DIVER 3.5 appears to be sapphire (I've hit it regularly against door knobs with no physical reaction on the glass...so far)

Your statement is coming from

Some guy

you say..

Also

I've also read that the glass of the 57th street is definitely NOT sapphire.

you red that it´s NOT sapphire? Where are you reading these?

And the AP Diver V3.5 appears to be sapphire because

I've hit it regularly against door knobs with no physical reaction on the glass...so far

which means it´s sapphire :thumbsup:


The factories we (dealers) are working with are not based on a one time sell, we keep doing business with them every day. The business is not based on cheating. We don´t need to test each watch in order to assure it is sapphire or not. If you don´t have a diamond tester, the water drop test is enough I think.

What you try to tell us it´s quite shocking, and I would like to know myself where you got that info from.

Sapphire glass is not an expensive investment for a factory to cheat us all and walk away with that. Even they would know this is a matter of days and they we will find it out.

I have a quite a big bunch of AP´s now with sec @ 12, and I will try a few.

Anybody?

 

[ddc]

Well Toro, i started this thread because on another thread a fellow member stated he was bummed because he scratched his brand new safari on the glass and that HE suspected the glass wad not sapphire... Then all of a sudden a lot of people started chipping in with similar stories and people saying that they knew about this!!! And that more models are known to have mineral glass instead of sapphire WTF!
Please this is not my info i just think there is a need to clarify things..
TDs may not even be aware of this i don't know...
Toro please read the previous posts and threads and you'll know what I'm talking about...

 

[torobravo]

Well Toro, i started this thread because on another thread a fellow member stated he was bummed because he scratched his brand new safari on the glass and that HE suspected the glass wad not sapphire... Then all of a sudden a lot of people started chipping in with similar stories and people saying that they knew about this!!! And that more models are known to have mineral glass instead of sapphire WTF!
Please this is not my info i just think there is a need to clarify things..
TDs may not even be aware of this i don't know...
Toro please read the previous posts and threads and you'll know what I'm talking about...

Ok, I will have a look into this.

Sapphire glass can be scratched and broken but not as easily.

 

[Heisenberg]

I just checked my APs... all sapphire

ROO T3 - sapphire
ROO EOD - sapphire (Uwe double AR)
ROO Tour Auto - sapphire (Uwe double AR)
ROO Juan Pablo Montoya - sapphire (? single AR, specified by multiple TDs)
ROO Survivor - sapphire (Vac double AR)
ROO Grand Prix - sapphire (Vac double AR)
ROO Chronopassion - sapphire (Ryan double AR)
Diver V4.1 - sapphire (single AR)
Diver V5 - sapphire (single AR)

ROO Rubens Barrichello II - currently with Vac for service/AR, so cannot check right now

I had a Safari and Rubberclad (which had an AR crystal) too but have sold them, so cannot test. Eventually I will probably part with the Tour Auto and Chronopassion too. I really favor the special editions... Besides liking bad ass watches, I find them more accurate as the major rep flaws (i.e. date window position and coplanar alignment of crown/pushers) are evident to a great degree on the standard ROO models.

The 'tap test' does seem to work. I tried it on my two Flyback PAMs, a 253I with dome mineral glass and 332L with dome sapphire glass. There was an obvious difference in sound, with the mineral glass having a high pitch, hollow overtone not present in the sapphire crystal.

I did not bother with the water test, as I figured the AR coatings on many of my ROOs might interfere with the surface tension of the crystal material.

Only surprise I found regarding mineral instead of the specified sapphire crystal is a VCO Deep Stream, an inexpensive rep ~ $250. The crystal is very clear and doesn't have any scratches, but it has the high frequency overtone. It was specified as sapphire in the TD description.

There is also a large variation in quality of the sapphire crystals as others have pointed out... clarity of most rep crystals is far short of the BigMatt C3 Corundum in my 5218-202/A, or the gen crystals in my Sinn 903 H4, Tudor Heritage, Seiko Spring Drive SPS001, and Paul Picot Technicum. I thought the sapphire crystal in my PAM305 was terrible, but having Vac recoat it made it much, much better; the crappy AR was to blame more than the crystal itself. The best AR coatings I are those from Chieftang and K222, unfortunately I don't think either are doing it anymore and both are quite fragile and susceptible to scratches. The coatings from Vac and Uwe are not quite as good but as much more durable. I have one of Ryan's AP ROO crystals which seems phenomenal, it is in my Chronopassion V5.

One final point - there are at least three different crystal sizes used in the various AP ROOs. The RBII crystal is about 32mm; the GP crystal is about 33mm, same as HBB; the other ROOs and Divers are about 32.5mm. There are differences in bevels too. For those that have GPs and want AR without spending ~ $135 and waiting several weeks for recoating, pick up a HBB crystal! V1 or V5 are best being colorless, most of the V6 crystals have noticeable blue.

 

[Garuda]

Um.... I suggest we don't go down this whole chinese suck route..... To be more specific, Chinese factories produce different sapphire crystals for watches. The quality will depend on which country the material comes from. Sapphires come in different hardnesses, hues, clarity etc. Chinese factories can produce pretty much any type of sapphire provided they have the source. And it all boils down to price. 10 bucks may seem trivial to you and me, but if they are making and selling thousands of watches a month.... suddenly it ain't trivial anymore.

You know, it's really funny reading some of the comments, because we make it out as if the chinese factories are the delusional ones, but let me be clear that we the consumers are the crazy ones instead. To these guys, it is clear, they are making 'replica watches'. They are not actually making a 'watch'. The goal is to create something that resembles a watch of a famous brand, because that is what consumers want and know.

Brands are not stupid either, they sell a sapphire crystal for a grand and we go, ah... because it's quality and swiss made.... The best clarity sapphires which are colourless come from Japan. Many swiss watches have slightly pink hued sapphires, panerai especially. But the best sapphires in the world doesn't cost a grand to manufacture.... Maybe if you are grinding it by hand on a freaking stone wheel in the swiss alps.

You sir offer a more honest assessment on price/quality and you cut through the myth of Chinese = junk, Europe/Japan = superb, US = middle ground.

Joe's assessment seems to have some misinformation thrown in to justify the price he charges for his service. If you want to charge X for your service so be it, there will always be people queuing at your door.

Before you come at me with knifes in defence of Joe, here's some information i offer.
1/ Sapphires have a refractive index of >1.75 whereas mineral is approx 1.55 and most labs can accurately check this value through their spectrometer.
2/ The Sapphire boule from which our glasses are cut are lab grown 'synthetic corundum' made from aluminium oxide. They are graded on the number of defects, much like grading a diamond. Hardness is mohs 8.0-9.0 but it can shatter!
3/ A good coating company will tune the AR to match the refractive index. As Joe's lab confirms, if you coat a mineral glass with the same substance intended for sapphire the resulting glass will throw a 'uncontrolled' colour. Its very difficult to find coating labs that will apply AR to small quantities so Joe is onto a winner! Labs usually run large batches and charge for 'machine time'. Avoid your local optical lab that specialises in glasses since their equipment is tuned for 'crown glass'.

The Chinese v Europe v USA sapphire comparison comes down to workmanship and quality control. The chinese will cut corners and throw in some lower grade boules.

Our big concern with the noob factory is, did they knowingly use mineral as a replacement or did their supplier mess up? The glass in my blackthemes is sapphire as confirmed by a lab i used to coat me a sample.