Business Idea

[hautehorloge]

Hey guys!

Since a few weeks i am a proud member of RWI. My obsession for fine watches startet way earlier and here i learned such a lot about good taste and quality.

I'm a entrepreneur in the lifestyle and luxury business and one of the most important parts of my work is thinking about ideas.

I am thinking about producing fashion watches. Buying virgin "lookalikes" (we know replicas without the brand on it) and resell them under my brands name on a fair price - some kind of a cheap alternative to the real one (for example Parnis is doin' the same).

What do you think? Could it work?

 

[woof*]

Alpha and Parnis kinda have that wrapped up.
If you can beat their quality and price, have at it.

 

[dutchwatch]

Well, you can remove the brand name but if it is like a Rolex you could still get copyright infringement issues (if that is the correct English word).

At least that is what I think. But you could give it a go.

 

[Kactus]

You need to consider the fact that many watch makers have design patents, so if you're looking into branding copies of those watches with your name on it, and actually do it for living and turning in a profit, you might get into real trouble... Give that a thought

 

[rhp1462]

It wouldn't work if you are going to have this company based in conus.

 

[Luthier]

icard:
For your information - Rolex don't have a patent for the case or bezel shape, only name "ROLEX" is patented. Otherwise Alpha would be sued looong time ago, and Invicta too. Same with all other brands. I'm helping to one of my friends to make a big batch of fashion watches, based on one big brand design, right now.

 

[electric]

I thought about doing this too, the thing is Parnis has the upper hand because they're located in China, therefore you need money to invest in bulk.

Next you need watch smiths and lumers to mod, now we are talking about SKILLED hourly labor in the USA, which doesn't come cheap. I spoke to a senior VIP here who does lume n such and realized that it would take serious investing of time and money and unfortunately once you get the ball rolling then you gotta worry about the idea that maybe rolex or panerai could come after you perhaps. But if not and you got that all under wraps then I'll buy. Especially seeing how high quality these cases are these days. Check out Bamford Watch they customize rolex but that idea with sterile rep's would be awesome. But think first lume labor, because EVERYONE is nuts about lume, then mod parts like how TC goes crazy trying to make something and BK has a date wheel, I want a glide lock clasp no matter what rolex it is and that better be water resistant....did I mention lume?

I'm not bubble bursting I hope but I want you to see the whole dynamic of this great idea and that to do it would require a passionate team of people that could dedicate time to the project and train others to do so. Not to mention marketing.

PS I love my parnis.

 

[electric]

icard:
For your information - Rolex don't have a patent for the case or bezel shape, only name "ROLEX" is patented. Otherwise Alpha would be sued looong time ago, and Invicta too. Same with all other brands. I'm helping to one of my friends to make a big batch of fashion watches, based on one big brand design, right now.

That good to know, but why do horologists FREAK out at my parnis?

 

[Luthier]

You don't need anyone in USA. All operations could be done in China. Many of SZ factories make famous Swiss brands, even stamping "SWISS MADE" on dials. Only assembling is done in Switzerland. All you need is money and desire. And really good factory, of course.

 

[alligoat]

"For your information - Rolex don't have a patent for the case or bezel shape, only name "ROLEX" is patented."

WRONG! Rolex has patented the case, bezel, dials, movements, etc. Problem is that patents expire after 7 years. You can copy a vintage watch and there's not much Rolex can do. And if you're in China, Rolex is less likely to come after you- the Chinese will make an occasional effort to enforce copyright laws, but it's a weak effort.

Steinhart made some nice eta based knock-offs and then changed their name to DeFauvre or something like that- don't know what the reason was. The Chinese will come to you here in the USA and make whatever watch you want- orders of 500 to 1000+ and ship them over to you from Guangzhou or wherever they are located. You just have to have the contacts.

But it could be tough to compete with Alpha and Parnis as far as price. but maybe you go for something with an eta clone in it and strive for a little higher level of quality.

I got this William Marshall watch 6-8 yrs ago- Swiss 2824-2 inside, paid around $210 for it- been to 135 ft w/ it- not bad for a knock-off!

 

[hautehorloge]

I think i will spend another few years thinking about this idea and scout options to make it work.

As mentioned before, other brands do it, too - actually a lot. But most of them go more the fashion way, like Icewatch wich uses the shape of the classic Sea-Dweller. A medium price lookalike with style would be something new, here in central Europe.

I would never buy reps and scratch the brands name off, that's too much work and wouldn't look good. But buy virgin ones and refine them with my logo could work out very well. We'll see... Someday...

 

[hautehorloge]

It MUST work somehow like this. I'm pretty shure alot of the parts of other fashion brands watches like the D&G, Armani, Hugo Boss shit pieces are from the same factories like our beloved Rolex' and others (I'm speaking about the parts factories, not the makers!)

 

[Kactus]

icard:
For your information - Rolex don't have a patent for the case or bezel shape, only name "ROLEX" is patented. Otherwise Alpha would be sued looong time ago, and Invicta too. Same with all other brands. I'm helping to one of my friends to make a big batch of fashion watches, based on one big brand design, right now.

Rolex is not all brands. Panerai has a patent on their CG's shapes and function. Casio has a patent over some G-Shock designs, Chanel has a patent over the J12 design, Audemars Piguet has over the Royal Oak design. I'm sure many other brands have as well, I'm just not aware of it.

 

[alligoat]

Charles Hubert has a line of knock-off Rolex like watches- check them out at Amazon- bing or google them.

Some of the automatics have the Miyota 8215 movement. The quartz ones have a Japanese quartz movement. The prices are pretty good and it's not a Chinese movement like Alpha or Parnis.

I like this faux GMT for $58!
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Charles-Hubert-Paris-3663-Collection-Stainless/dp/B003L2NHHC/ref=sr_1_254?s=watches&ie=UTF8&qid=1377636762&sr=1-254&keywords=charles+hubert+watch"]Charles-Hubert, Paris Men's 3663 Classic Collection Two-Tone Stainless Steel Watch: Watches: Amazon.com@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NGfXmAS7L.@@AMEPARAM@@41NGfXmAS7L[/ame]

 

[Luthier]

Rolex is not all brands. Panerai has a patent on their CG's shapes and function. Casio has a patent over some G-Shock designs, Chanel has a patent over the J12 design, Audemars Piguet has over the Royal Oak design. I'm sure many other brands have as well, I'm just not aware of it.

Seems, you didn't read my post well. NO, they do NOT have patents.

 

[ThinkBachs]

I think i will spend another few years thinking about this idea and scout options to make it work.

A REAL idea man would never say this. A REAL idea man takes a concept and makes it work.

 

[User_Error]

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/audemars-piguet-sues-tommy-hilfiger-and-movado-for

Audemars Piguet Sues Tommy Hilfiger And Movado For Derivative Design

According to court documents filed this past tuesday, Audemars Piguet is in the early phases of legal action against Tommy Hilfiger, and its licensee for watches, the Movado Group. The claim says that Tommy's Eton watch “creates a likelihood of confusion such that the purchasing public is likely to believe [they are] authentic Audemars Piguet Royal Oak watches.†Or, essentially, the Eton looks too much like a Royal Oak Offshore.

Specifically, these are the traits AP is objecting to: a round watch face that is framed by an octagonal unitary bezel; a bezel that features eight hexagonal-shaped screw heads positioned parallel to the curve of the bezel at each corner of the octagon; the winding crown that is a faceted hexagon.
Of course, the Offshore starts at around $16,000, and Tommy's quartz based guy starts at around $175, but that's not to say AP's claims are groundless. AP has requested an injunction against Tommy from selling the watch while the matter is in court and it looks like it has worked, because the watch is no longer shown on the Tommy Hilfiger website in the US, though it is still available on the British website.
These cases are notoriously difficult to win, but causing a little trouble for the offending party is usually enough to bring about a settlement. We'll keep you updated on this one as it goes along.
We wonder if this lawsuit might inspire AP's friends/competitors from Geneva to take action against another fashion brand ripping of what is clearly the OTHER great Gerald Genta design, in Burberry's Britain watch - which to us, and most in the trade press, is a blatant ripoff of the Patek Philippe Aquanaut. It is our opinion that it is really a shame that inexpensive watches, at least those produced by large companies, have now become synonymous with derivative design. There is no excuse for this beyond just being lazy.


that's what can happen.

 

[Luthier]

Aha. Good luck with this lawsuit.
In 2005 I was heavily involved in Gibson vs PRS lawsuit, and Gibson, the most recognizable guitar brand on Earth, sucked our dicks.
In 2001, when PRS released their "Singlecut" guitar—which bore some resemblance to the venerable Gibson Les Paul filed a trademark infringement lawsuit against Paul Reed Smith. An injunction was ordered[6] and PRS stopped manufacture of the Singlecut at the end of 2004. Federal District Court Judge William J. Haynes, in a 57-page decision ruled "that PRS [Paul Reed Smith] was imitating the Les Paul" and gave the parties ninety days "to complete any discovery on damages or disgorgement of PRS's profits on the sales of its offending Singlecut guitar."[6]
In 2005, the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit reversed the lower court decision and ordered the dismissal of Gibson's suit against PRS.[7] The decision also immediately vacated the injunction prohibiting the sale and production of PRS’s Singlecut Guitar. PRS announced that it would immediately resume production of its Singlecut guitars.
Gibson tried and failed to have the case reheard by all sixteen active Sixth Circuit judges (denied in December 2005)[8] and then by the Supreme Court of the United States(denied June 2006),[9] which was their last chance to have their original injunction upheld.

 

[sneed12?]

I'm a entrepreneur in the lifestyle and luxury business and one of the most important parts of my work is thinking about ideas.

Well, I'm a strategy consultant and one of the most important things I do is point out bad ideas.

I am thinking about producing fashion watches. Buying virgin "lookalikes" (we know replicas without the brand on it) and resell them under my brands name on a fair price - some kind of a cheap alternative to the real one (for example Parnis is doin' the same).

What do you think? Could it work?

No. Why would you possibly think it could work?

Don't get me wrong, it obviously does work as a business. But there's absolutely no reason to think that you could do it better than Parnis does, unless your "luxury brand" is big enough to drive business through name alone. And if that's the case, you can just contract with the factories in China directly, there's no reason to buy sterile watches and brand them yourself. You can get whatever you want stamped on them as long as you buy several hundred.

A medium price lookalike with style would be something new, here in central Europe.

I lived all over Europe. You can buy watches anywhere. What could you possibly bring to the market that's "new"?

I would never buy reps and scratch the brands name off, that's too much work and wouldn't look good. But buy virgin ones and refine them with my logo could work out very well. We'll see... Someday...

Why would someone buy that watch with your logo, if they could buy the same watch with someone else's logo? What do you have that Parnis doesn't at a lower price? Access to retail outlets? Brand recognition? You have to answer that question before you have a prayer of making this work.

 

[Luthier]

First - Parnis is a crap with ugly brand name.
Second - if his brand is well known - this idea will work perfectly. Look - Michael Kors watches are hot sell. Is it a good watches? Pieces of shit. Do whey sells well? Oh, yes. Way better, than Parnis.