At Times, Learning is Humbling... .

[d4m.test]

Hi, Gang!

Over the past 24 hours, I've come to realize just how humbling (and kinda painful and embarrassing) learning about watches can be. I learned this lesson while changing the battery on my Invicta Chrono "Diver" (Model 5383)

and while installing the fat spring bars I received from Clark on my Rolex "T" Sub: .

Now, I kinda have to suck it in and explain.

I know about the anti-Invicta bias on the Forum but have no problem with it; however, I recently learned that some of the criticism the label receives is justified. Purchased from ShopNBC.com back in '04 or '05 (long before I joined RWI), it was labeled a "Swiss Chrono" and is thusly engraved on the case back (which I'll show in a minute). "Swiss," er! Hot damn! A "Swiss Made" watch!! (uh, NOTE: Back then, REALLY a naive noob!). So, I have the case back off of this and am looking at the movement with my magnifying glass, and WHAT do I see? "Made in China" and "East Asia Movement" Geeze! Their critics were right!! I have a lot to still learn:

Pics:

Said Watch:

Said Caseback:

Aaannndddd, now the fat spring bars on this Rolex I had picked up from a mate:

I can't remember if it's a 5513 or a 5517 (serious memory issues), but the problem was with the spring bars: I didn't like the nato strap on the Sub, so I thought I'd put something else on the watch; after fruitlessly trying to get the spring bars off, I used my dremel-type device and cut them off. Conventional spring bars in my collection didn't work, so some mates, like Texas Robbie, gave me some tips & I purcased the fatties from Clark. Today, I installed them on the Sub & they went easily into the holes. IT NEVER DAWNED ME TO TRY REMOVING THE OLD FATTIES BY PUSHING DOWN ON THEIR SPRING BARS!!! (Which I did with the new ones). Geeze Louise, what a dumbass!! (See: said spring bar holes in the case):

Lesson learned; Learning about watches CAN be fun; however, sometimes (when playing with half-a-deck) learning is humbling, painful, and embarrassing -- even when one has a high post count! Ssoo, noobs, don't be afraid to ask questions (veterans, too). Eating crow ain't no fun!

Humbly,

dave

 

[mike 8]

I feel your pain Dave....

 

[levelmanroger]

Watches are like women: Can't live with them; can't live without them; sure as crap can't fix them!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[acharria]

The Asian movement picture is missing..

 

[txrob779]

Grind those ends till they fit, then sand em progressivley smoother. like 80, 180, 320, 600, 1000 and polish the tips till the sparkle

 

[sub4me]

The springbar thing is funny, I mean how did you think they worked LOL.

I have a Invicta 9308 with a Swiss movement. I just assumed it is a swiss quartz movement because it says so on the dial. The watch is very nice keeps great time and hasn't given me any problem, however I have heard of others saying there swiss quartz movements only contain some swiss parts and are actually Japan made movements which is weird because they also offer a Japan quartz movement for little less. I mean a general swiss quartz movement is pretty cheap, so why would they lie about that.

signed,
your fellow dumbass, lol.

 

[Bonesey]

Every day is a school day when working on watches

 

[sub4me]

Maybe I will open up my 9308 as see WTF is doing in there. Now as far as I know Invicta has always used four types of movement in their non chrongraph divers watches a Swiss ETA (now Sellita), a Japan automatic (either a Seiko or Mioyta), a Japan quartz, and a Swiss quartz. Each of theses having a diffrent price point but just about every movement works flawlessly. The problem is Invictas quality control on the build of the watch which in most cases does not include the movement. Its usually a poor build quality and a inconsistancy of quality of the same watch. Its seems like they pump out as many as possible and just put anything through without checks, probably figuring the bad ones either are returned and possibly repaired or exchanged, or in the worst case sold agian to the next customer or grey market sellers. So you either get a good one or a bad one, but in most cases you do get a good one.

 

[d4m.test]

Yeah, learning about watches IS "class in session" time; I suppose it depends upon one's attitude/approach to them. I agree w/ Sub on the Invicta build quality, although (knock wood) I haven't had any problems with my small collection of them. I only changed the battery in the "Diver" because the battery was so old for a watch: about seven to eight years old; still worked but thought I'd head any problems "off at the pass." (old guy talk). And Rob, bless your "pea-pickin' heart"** for the advice, but you're assuming I have skills. NOT! Thanks anyway.

dave

**Courtesy of the late Tennessee Ernie Ford.

 

[TESLA760]

I have wounds on my hands from " learning " with my watches. They can be painful at times.

 

[sub4me]

I've had many Invicta watches and many reps as well and I've done things to both and when I say done things to them I mean I've purposly F'ed them up. I have destroyed many watches just to see what they can take, how well built they really are, and to see if these watches are just junk or really just a bargin.

I can say without a doubt every rep I have destroyed was pretty much sub par on the quality level. Now they look pretty but thats what they are made to do, look the part not perform as it. In almost every case what was supposed to be a sapphire crystal was not (no surprise), the China made movements fail quickly under stress or dropping or any water interaction and the bracelets fail very often at the clasp, link pins, and screws (which often are very poorly made), lume is almost always bad and very inconsistant. Dial markers fall off easily and crowns can snap off or just suddenly stop working. Most bezels work just fine however in everycase the bezel insert is glued on and the pearls come off very easily and with little effort. I have also found that many watches have horrible fitting springbars which often are bent and manipulated to fit into unproperly drilled lug holes and of course the endlinks are poor fitting and often loose. Theres alot more to discuss about the great lack of quality but you have to remember a rep is only made to play the part and will never perform as you wish it would.

I have done the exact same things to the Invicta brand and a few others. For the most part I have never recieved a bad Invicta that was purchased new (I am familiar with others recieving bad watches). In just about every Invicta I had to really subject it to extreme measures to break it, but remember any watch will break if taken to the limit. Now everyone that was stated sapphire was sapphire, next the movements held up very well even when misused and mistreated. I did find the bezels to work fine but the bezel inserts where also glued into place. The bracelets, links, pins, and clasps all hold up very well, also water has never affected any of them. The springbars are placed properly and I have yet to see one bent and forced into place, most endlinks fit well but a few have been loose. Overall not a pretstigous brand but pretty well made for the most part. I do realize Invicta makes some pretty crazy statements and probably lies alot as well as to where their products are made but their products do perform very well.

Look, most guys want a rep because of the name on the dial and I get that, esspecaily when you consider the crazy retail prices some of these gens are asking. But when I hear super rep, grade AAA rep, or ultimate rep I have to laugh because theres only two things that matter when it comes to reps, profit and looking the part, nothing else matters and believe me profit is the most important, looks come second which is why we can never find a perfect rep, it doesn't exist theres always something thats just not right. So if your looking for affordable quality buy a Seiko or Bulova, or whatever, if your looking to play the part but not be the part buy a rep and keep your funds for other things.

 

[d4m.test]

+1. Well stated, reasoned presentation; a quality dissertation, Sub, and I thank you for it and really suggest your post become a sticky because it'll help place reps into their proper perspective, for noobs and non-noobs (like me) alike. Personally, I've come to agree with you regarding Invicta quality. For the reasonably priced watch they're supposed to be, they're really not too bad (this applies to those under 50mm and not jammed with bling).

Some rep points coming your way, Sub; and, MODS, please make his latest post in this thread as a sticky. It's VERY helpful to the forum and its members.

dave

I've had many Invicta watches and many reps as well and I've done things to both and when I say done things to them I mean I've purposly F'ed them up. I have destroyed many watches just to see what they can take, how well built they really are, and to see if these watches are just junk or really just a bargin.

I can say without a doubt every rep I have destroyed was pretty much sub par on the quality level. Now they look pretty but thats what they are made to do, look the part not perform as it. In almost every case what was supposed to be a sapphire crystal was not (no surprise), the China made movements fail quickly under stress or dropping or any water interaction and the bracelets fail very often at the clasp, link pins, and screws (which often are very poorly made), lume is almost always bad and very inconsistant. Dial markers fall off easily and crowns can snap off or just suddenly stop working. Most bezels work just fine however in everycase the bezel insert is glued on and the pearls come off very easily and with little effort. I have also found that many watches have horrible fitting springbars which often are bent and manipulated to fit into unproperly drilled lug holes and of course the endlinks are poor fitting and often loose. Theres alot more to discuss about the great lack of quality but you have to remember a rep is only made to play the part and will never perform as you wish it would.

I have done the exact same things to the Invicta brand and a few others. For the most part I have never recieved a bad Invicta that was purchased new (I am familiar with others recieving bad watches). In just about every Invicta I had to really subject it to extreme measures to break it, but remember any watch will break if taken to the limit. Now everyone that was stated sapphire was sapphire, next the movements held up very well even when misused and mistreated. I did find the bezels to work fine but the bezel inserts where also glued into place. The bracelets, links, pins, and clasps all hold up very well, also water has never affected any of them. The springbars are placed properly and I have yet to see one bent and forced into place, most endlinks fit well but a few have been loose. Overall not a pretstigous brand but pretty well made for the most part. I do realize Invicta makes some pretty crazy statements and probably lies alot as well as to where their products are made but their products do perform very well.

Look, most guys want a rep because of the name on the dial and I get that, esspecaily when you consider the crazy retail prices some of these gens are asking. But when I hear super rep, grade AAA rep, or ultimate rep I have to laugh because theres only two things that matter when it comes to reps, profit and looking the part, nothing else matters and believe me profit is the most important, looks come second which is why we can never find a perfect rep, it doesn't exist theres always something thats just not right. So if your looking for affordable quality buy a Seiko or Bulova, or whatever, if your looking to play the part but not be the part buy a rep and keep your funds for other things.

 

[d4m.test]

I have wounds on my hands from " learning " with my watches. They can be painful at times.

Heh! Yeah, me too -- and the bruises apply to other parts of the old 'bod -- like lumps on my skull from banging my head on the underside of the table, after being down on all fours trying to find the @#*!! spring bars and/or screws I dropped or rocketed off the table very suddenly. These events were usually followed by exclamations referencing the Almighty, fornication, and various bodily functions... . :
dave

 

[frankt8242]

The Rolex is IIRC, a 5517 military model>>>

And originally was equipped with permanently fixed lugbars...If you were able to easily replace them, the previous owner must have removed the originals....
I recall modifying a stamped end pieces rolex bracelet to fit over mine...A real PITA!!!

 

[sub4me]

Thanks, those are some very kind words.:sub4me:

 

[d4m.test]

As you request, Ach:

dave

The Asian movement picture is missing..

 

[sub4me]

Thanks for posting that, intersting pic now I tried to open mine and have had no luck.

I don't want to hear the suggestions of tape or sticky balls. I had my wife give me a handjob and the stickyballs did nothing to open the caseback, maybe I did something wrong, not sure but I will try again with a caseback opener, LOL.

 

[tommy_boy]

Thanks for posting that, intersting pic now I tried to open mine and have had no luck.

I don't want to hear the suggestions of tape or sticky balls. I had my wife give me a handjob and the stickyballs did nothing to open the caseback, maybe I did something wrong, not sure but I will try again with a caseback opener, LOL.

:lol2:

 

[Bomba]

Priceless, Dave.

 

[sub4me]

Ok, we can all clearly see it says ISA Cal 8172 (a ISA Cal. 8172 is a Swiss quartz movement, at least its supposed to be), but we can also see it says,
3 Jewles China, Invicta Watch Group, and Far East Ass'y.

This seem to be a commonly used Swiss Chronograph movement in many lower end Swiss watches.

So either its a Swiss movement made and assembled in China or the only thing Swiss about it is possibly the battery that comes in the watch, LOL.

Quote from Ofrei, ISA 8172/220
$39.95
ISA 8172/220
Ligne size 11.5, height 4.2, hand sizes 90/150/20, functions: uses 3 hands, date at 4. Gold Plated.