Evolution of the 16610

[pjsayer]

Since the original design was released in the late-'80s the humble Submariner 'date' 16610 has gone through a few subtle, but important revisions. So I have a few questions. Can anyone advise me:

-When did the case go from lug holes to no lug holes?
-When was the bracelet upgraded from hollow mid links to solid?
-When was a rehaut engraving added?
-Were there any other significant revisions to the case and dial over its 20 years in production?

Am I right in assuming TC's 16610 is closest in accuracy to the Y-series model from 2003ish (once the rehaut engraving has been removed)? TIA

 

[pjsayer]

Arcadia? Your expertise is required ;-)

 

[Debellum]

Since the original design was released in the late-'80s the humble Submariner 'date' 16610 has gone through a few subtle, but important revisions. So I have a few questions. Can anyone advise me:

-When did the case go from lug holes to no lug holes?
-When was the bracelet upgraded from hollow mid links to solid?
-When was a rehaut engraving added?
-Were there any other significant revisions to the case and dial over its 20 years in production?

Am I right in assuming TC's 16610 is closest in accuracy to the Y-series model from 2003ish (once the rehaut engraving has been removed)? TIA

I'm not Arcadia , but to some question I can reply.

1) The last series of 16610 with lugs is
2000/2001. This for all Rolly models
without 14060 and 14000 Air King.

2) The first Rolly with RRR Rolex
Rep Ring was the Turn'O'Graph in
year 2004. After all sport models
before , and all Rolly have the RRR.


Cheers

Junio


The Raven King from Hell

 

[Bonesey]

The code for the sub changed from 16610 (lug holes) to 16610T (no lugholes).

 

[pjsayer]

Thanks guys. So would we say a non-engraved rehaut TC Sub would pass as a 2003 Y series 16610 give or take?

 

[Debellum]

Thanks guys. So would we say a non-engraved rehaut TC Sub would pass as a 2003 Y series 16610 give or take?

In years 2003 the Rolex Repetear Ring also RRR there's not. The series here's :

R 1987 LUGS
L 1988 LUGS
E 1990 LUGS
X 1991 LUGS
N 1991 (NOV) LUGS
C 1992 LUGS
S 1993 LUGS
W 1995 LUGS
T 1996 LUGS
U 1997 (AUG) LUGS
A 1998 (NOV) LUGS
P 2000 (JAN) LUGS
K 2001 (SEP) LUGS/NO LUGS
Y 2002 (SEP) NO LUGS SEL
F 2003 (SEP) RRR from 2004
D 2005 (APR)
Z 2006 (MAY)
M 2007 (AUG)
V 2008 (AUG)
G 2010 (JUN)

Cheers

Junio





The Raven King from Hell

 

[txrob779]

My gen 16610 Z was non-engraved, early 2007. The later 2007 Z's then M's were engraved as far as I can recall.




16610 Submariner

Ref. 16610(1989-now), this was the newest Submariner Date, 300M waterproof, sapphire crystal, but it used Rolex's newest 3135 movement. Case size was 40*13MM. Note: before 2000, the words below the 6 o'clock position were labeled as "SWISS T<25", after 2000, the words were "SWISS MADE". In 2000, some details of the buckle also had small changes, the new bracelet was more comfortable. 2003 was Submariner's 50th anniversary, Rolex published the 16610LV(green bezel) as the Submariner 50th anniversary edition. Submariner has experienced 50 years of rises and falls, experienced Swiss mechanical watches' glory, failure to re-revival. Submariner's success would be forever engraved on the milestone of Rolex.

1990 E45, drilled lugs, Swiss-T<25 dial
1991 Nxxx * * drilled lugs, Swiss-T<25
1992 Cxx * drilled lugs, Swiss-T<25
1995 Wxxx *drilled lugs, Swiss-T<25
1997 Uxxx *drilled lugs, Swiss Made
**the late 90's to 2000 yrs get wishy washy....Swiss Made & Swiss dials both,,,late 2000 have seen solid lugs as well....who knows
2000A 1879 drilled lugs, Swiss dial
2003 *LV *solid lugs, Swiss made
2006 Dxx Solid lugs, Swiss Made
2007 Zxx Solid lugs, Swiss Made


16610
1989-present
Pre-2000 had Swiss T<25 dial and drilled lugs but have seen just SWISS dials as well
2000-present
Swiss Made dial, solid lugs

16610-pre 2000 yr model
3135 movement, gloss WG dial T<25, 906L steel, drilled lugs

16610 post 2000yr model
3135 movement, gloss WG dial Swiss Made, 906L steel, solid lugs

 

[arcadia]

Sorry just read it now. Preparing for Guangzhou.

The above mates are very well versed in Rolex and they are correct:

The case go from lug holes to no lug holes (16610T) during the Y series of 2002-2003 (not the year as a given year can have 2 series like K/Y or Y/F series).

Of course we all know that the TC sub is trying to replicate the V series. But there are a few tells:

1. Rehaut engraving is off.
2. Shallow bezel teeth compared to V series.

TC bezel teeth is close to the Y series gens than other later series. Actually, it is closer to the K series gens but K series has lug holes. So the logical accuracy is that of the Y series with shallow bezel teeth and no lug holes. The hollow mid links are also correct.

The only thing needed is to shave the rehaut as engravings on a 16610 started on the M series.

There are actually some tells that we rather not discuss here as I'm sure it would be used against us by those TRF high hats or scammers...

 

[pjsayer]

Great info guys. Arcadia has confirmed what I suspected - that the TC Sub is closer to a Y series 2002ish. Now that's worth a wristy...

Am I right in assuming the case serial has been removed by TC between the lugs? (I haven't got mine to hand to check)

 

[Debellum]

My gen 16610 Z was non-engraved, early 2007. The later 2007 Z's then M's were engraved as far as I can recall.

You're right , Robbie.
Can be. I remember very well the Daytona series "D" and also "Z" who did not have the rehaut with the RRR.
I had read that Rolex used all the old cases to the last.:lol:
As they say , never waste anything.
That's why there are models of 2006 without RRR and others may 2005 with RRR.

Cheers

Junio

 

[txrob779]

Remember boys, there is a Rolex letter of the law and there is Rolex for real.....+/- who knows what in reality....One never knows until one knows

Thats why I think, we RWI's OCD out WAY to much on the "letter of the law" with +/-'s, who really can look at a watch and say, "that is wrong, fake" i say bulsch.....unless you disect it from the inside out. Junio is right....Rolex just makes parts in runs and batches and backstocks them until a new run is needed...hence the ROLEXROLEXROLEX engraving..then the +/- comes into play late in production run. Rolex engraves a serial and model # on a Submairner Z case that the letter says should NOT be rehaut engraved, but is....yes? Letter of the Law and real world Rolex.

 

[arcadia]

Remember boys, there is a Rolex letter of the law and there is Rolex for real.....+/- who knows what in reality....One never knows until one knows

I agree. Too many variations from the norm, this Rolex does. :yoda:

 

[Debellum]

I agree. Too many variations from the norm, this Rolex does. :yoda:

Holy World Robbie ! :notworthy:

The Rolex is worse than the CIA.
Too many secrets, too many bull*hit.
If we read a letter from Rolex, one needs to believe in the 10%.
And maybe it's too much.

Junio

 

[Ex-ki]

I'm a little bit late in this discussion but I think that the TC 16610 LV with Maxi dial and no rehaut engraving is closest to D to Z series, from 2005 to 2006 production.

Correct me if it's not accurate.
Here is a link to help us : Rolex Submariner 16610LV (Lunette Vert)