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Quality of the RG DLC/PVD coating on: Juan Pablo Montoya?

theflyingdutchman

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Hi there,

I wear my RG watches daily! So the quality of the RG is VERY important! For HBB’s via RG-ceramic this question has been solved, but what about the RG DLC/PVD plating on Juan Pablo Montoya ROO? Yes, the dealers state 5x more, but is that true… does anybody have experience?

Thanks,

Dutchy

dymu3ade.jpg
 

Doud

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Interested in the answer too...
Anyone?
 

Doud

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I have the RG RC and i am scared the plating will start wearing off at some point as I wear it a lot.
Ps: @theflyingdutchman, its now been 2 months and even if I am worried, I have had no issues so far.
 

theflyingdutchman

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Yes but RC is plated not using PVD/DLC... at least I believe so? The DR is to use the same RG system....
 

Imaknockov

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Since the rep specs on gold plating are dubious at best, I would recommend not having a plated watch as a daily beater. If the oil and acid from your skin doesn't do the plating in, the nicks, dings and scratches from everyday use surely will.
 

theflyingdutchman

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Since the rep specs on gold plating are dubious at best, I would recommend not having a plated watch as a daily beater. If the oil and acid from your skin doesn't do the plating in, the nicks, dings and scratches from everyday use surely will.

Well if Pvd or Dlc works in black for PAMs there could be hope here...
 

PeteM

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23/10/09
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The biggest issue here is the reliability of the makers claims !!



However gold plating is a process of depositing a thin layer of gold onto the surface of another metal by either chemical or electro-chemical plating. It is generally used on low cost jewellery, because it is inexpensive and easy to apply. The problem with gold plating is it lacks durability and can discolor within a short period of time, if the jewelery is subject to only normal wear. Most cheap imported gold plated jewelery is only one micron thick, which gives it a very limited lifespan. Makers generally claim 5 microns on thier better models..




DLC is applied using a PVD process as i mentioned a while ago comparing PVD and DLC is like comparing paint and brush. DLC is generally harder, hardness is measured in Vickers and can vary from several hundred Vickers upto 5000 Vickers, that being the hardest I know of in a gen watch finish...though that hardness of 5000 requires another reaction to be undertaken during the PVD application of the DLC.



PVD plating stands for “physical vapor depositionâ€, because gold is vaporized in a vacuum chamber and deposited on the intended piece of jewelry. When PVD is used with titanium nitride, a very hard material it provides an extremely durable coating of gold, which is the reason it is used in medium to higher priced jewelry – especially watches. Additionally, it is more resistant to corrosion by sea water and sweat than gold plating.


The titanium nitride is first applied to the piece, which produces a very hard rough surface. When the gold is applied, it first fills the minute cavities in the rough surface and builds up to form a smooth surface. Since the high points of the titanium nitride are so hard, they protect the jewelry so the gold doesn’t wear away as fast. A typical application of PVD gold plating that is applied to watches is 10 microns, or at least 10 times the thickness of typical gold plating and many times more durable than the thickness implies.



PVD plating with titanium nitride is not scratch proof, but it takes a bit of effort to scratch through to the base metal. It is a more complicated process to apply and requires expensive capital equipment, which makes it a more expensive addition to jewelry.


So although DLC gold applied using PVD is without question harder than gold plating...the key thing to know is



1) Is the DLC applied using titanium nitride or similar?



As we know there are makers using factories to produce these parts who also make items for proper/genuine brands so it is not beyond the realm of possibilty that these claims are more than possible... I tend to think it more likely than not in certain models like the RG JPM as I have held one in my hand..





I do know from some reliable info by guys that do know is that the DLC process is used by the makers on these models what I dont know is if they use titanium Nitride... that tech detail is beyond thier ability to garner..



But bottom line is that this gold application is harder and more long wearing than the traditional makers process of plating...afterall it is by definition...


but how much harder is difficult to say...
 

zorro-l

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9/2/12
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@d just get it ... and stop window shopping ... and join the club !!!mine say hi again ...
@ pete nice to see u back i hope all is better my friend !! happy new year
WP_20121230_0031_zps663e5a3b-1_zpsf2bd4941.jpg
 

set2374

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The biggest issue here is the reliability of the makers claims !!



However gold plating is a process of depositing a thin layer of gold onto the surface of another metal by either chemical or electro-chemical plating. It is generally used on low cost jewellery, because it is inexpensive and easy to apply. The problem with gold plating is it lacks durability and can discolor within a short period of time, if the jewelery is subject to only normal wear. Most cheap imported gold plated jewelery is only one micron thick, which gives it a very limited lifespan. Makers generally claim 5 microns on thier better models..




DLC is applied using a PVD process as i mentioned a while ago comparing PVD and DLC is like comparing paint and brush. DLC is generally harder, hardness is measured in Vickers and can vary from several hundred Vickers upto 5000 Vickers, that being the hardest I know of in a gen watch finish...though that hardness of 5000 requires another reaction to be undertaken during the PVD application of the DLC.



PVD plating stands for “physical vapor depositionâ€, because gold is vaporized in a vacuum chamber and deposited on the intended piece of jewelry. When PVD is used with titanium nitride, a very hard material it provides an extremely durable coating of gold, which is the reason it is used in medium to higher priced jewelry – especially watches. Additionally, it is more resistant to corrosion by sea water and sweat than gold plating.


The titanium nitride is first applied to the piece, which produces a very hard rough surface. When the gold is applied, it first fills the minute cavities in the rough surface and builds up to form a smooth surface. Since the high points of the titanium nitride are so hard, they protect the jewelry so the gold doesn’t wear away as fast. A typical application of PVD gold plating that is applied to watches is 10 microns, or at least 10 times the thickness of typical gold plating and many times more durable than the thickness implies.



PVD plating with titanium nitride is not scratch proof, but it takes a bit of effort to scratch through to the base metal. It is a more complicated process to apply and requires expensive capital equipment, which makes it a more expensive addition to jewelry.


So although DLC gold applied using PVD is without question harder than gold plating...the key thing to know is



1) Is the DLC applied using titanium nitride or similar?



As we know there are makers using factories to produce these parts who also make items for proper/genuine brands so it is not beyond the realm of possibilty that these claims are more than possible... I tend to think it more likely than not in certain models like the RG JPM as I have held one in my hand..





I do know from some reliable info by guys that do know is that the DLC process is used by the makers on these models what I dont know is if they use titanium Nitride... that tech detail is beyond thier ability to garner..



But bottom line is that this gold application is harder and more long wearing than the traditional makers process of plating...afterall it is by definition...


but how much harder is difficult to say...


Thanks for the post. This was very informative.
 

chromed.

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very informative, Pete!

was just wondering the same thing about the latest RG RC.
 

PeteM

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Thanks guys...

Thanks Z :) Happy New Year to you too my friend :)

Derek... I aint had a PM mate... When did you send it?
 

smokiedabong

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Well if Pvd or Dlc works in black for PAMs there could be hope here...

DLC on Pams is a carbon deposit, stuff diamonds are made of, PVD on AP is gold, soft as a baby's tushie. Here is a scratch test on I've made on a Pam DLC buckle, damn thing grinds the key. I have somewhere in a drawer a discarded RG plated case stated to be 5 time thicker, I'll try to run the same test when I get home

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2ciad60PxQ"]VID 20121205 203521 - YouTube[/ame]
 

PeteM

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The problem is that by doing that you arent actually proving anything we dont already know...

Plating is softer than PVD...PVD is generally softer than DLC....

I say that because a good PVD coating can be better than a poor DLC coating.... The hardness of any coating is measured in Vickers. You can buy many gens that are coated with PVD or DLC which has a smaller Vickers count.... it is specific to manufacturer/model/year of make etc

The discussion here is regarding the AP JPM RG which declares on the sites to have a DLC applied gold finish... it is not a plated finish...

It is not regarding the general RG plated APs or the buckles/deployants....

All DLC is applied using PVD method...what different is the use of Hybridized Carbon though there are generally considered 7 forms of DLC with varying characteristics....

So the answer sought here is to establish whether..

1) The AP JPM RG is DLC Gold coating.

2) And if it is which of the DLC coating is it.. ie What is it Vickers measurement

The quality of the DLC on the latest PAMs vary depending on maker and model ... they are not all the same neither are any PVDd PAMs from previous models...


Though having said all that above: plating as a method of finish in terms of hardness is also followed by the 'gold filled' process which is used on very high end costume jewellery and watches..whether or not the higher end reps use this as well and on what I dont know...
 

PeteM

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The question you should be asking D is

Is it true that the AP JPM uses a DLC gold finish....

If the answer is yes then it will by definition be harder wearing than any other option with reps...
 

PeteM

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Correct! And then also, can we trust our trusted dealers? Do they even know?


Your question mate really bugged me !! As once you asked I needed to know the answer as well !!

Apart from the info I got from some dealers in the know...smaller dealers I have known years and I generally trust ;) I mentioned that earlier :)

I just did a little test on my AP JPM RG..

Of course it doesnt follow that any part of the watch was made by the same factory that the maker uses...

ie: the caseback might be made and or coated by a different factory to the factory that makes the case itself.... daft I know...

an example of this is say the HBB Diver the case is made by one factory and the CB by another.. etc

Anyway I took a piece of red scotch brite and ran it across the corner and back of the case itself... just between where the CB sits and the plots..

I did this using the same pressure I have used in the past to remove swirls from Ti or SS..

The result was that I couldnt see any change in the brush finish or its grain...

Having done this in the past many times with Ti and SS I know that level of pressure should have left a mark...

I then did the same to an old HBB BBK RG case which of course is plated and pretty irrelevant to this discussion... however doing the same 3 passes with the same pressure left a change to the gold polish finish as you might expect and in the same way I would expect on SS etc..

In my own mind I cannot say it is a DLC finish for certain...

But whatever it is ..it is harder than any finish I have rebrushed in the past such as Ti,SS plate etc and including PVD both rep and aftermarket...