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TESLA760

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HAHAHAHA. My best friend has this watch in a GEN. He's had it for over 5 years. I have offered to buy it from him endless times. He always flakes at the last moment. I am very familiar with it and how it looks up close. I am also callimg BS on perfect clones. Once again, the bracelet is the main thing to look at on this watch. Ideal one would be Wrapped in gold, and the metal used would be copper or brass.
 

levelmanroger

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I've been around long enough to know that the Chinese manufacturers will SAY anything to get you to buy, but will ultimately make the watch using the cheapest methods available which will not be too easily detected.
It will NOT be 18k gold. And it will be plated / DLC'd (maybe) MUCH thinner than they promise. And it will not be pressure tested and the intensive QC will consist of a 9 year old kid looking to see if it is running and if it looks like a watch. Period. And THAT will only happen if you pay extra for the QC/Pressure Test upgrade!
 

TESLA760

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I've been around long enough to know that the Chinese manufacturers will SAY anything to get you to buy, but will ultimately make the watch using the cheapest methods available which will not be too easily detected.
It will NOT be 18k gold. And it will be plated / DLC'd (maybe) MUCH thinner than they promise. And it will not be pressure tested and the intensive QC will consist of a 9 year old kid looking to see if it is running and if it looks like a watch. Period. And THAT will only happen if you pay extra for the QC/Pressure Test upgrade!

HAHAHAHAHA !!! So true !
 

donaldejose

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levelmanroger: your guess as to which was which was incorrect! Amazing. Helps prove my point.

We are very fortunate to be able to obtain reps which are so good at a wide range of prices.

If you want "the very best" rep, you can have it. If you want a nice looking rep at a "cheap" price, you also can have that.
 

donaldejose

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BMW760: Don't you know? I thought you were so anal about knowing all the details, studied a gen in detail and could not be satisfied with anything less then top of the line? If you and levelmanroger cannot easily tell the difference how do you expect any ordinary person to?
 

levelmanroger

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Donald - Did I mix up the Noob and the cheapie? If so, the Noob dial sucks.
Please tell me where I'm off. It was hard to be certain from the angle of the pics.
 

TESLA760

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I have looked at your pictures on my Iphone, so i really couldn't see detail. But if you want my opinion, now that I am looking at them close up.

The first one looks like my daughter made the insert. Look at the font on the 4.

The second one looks a bit more accurate, but the pearl does seem a bit off. I wish I could see more of the magnification on all of these.

The third looks the best to me. I may be wrong, but this one has a better pearl. Once again, I wish I could see a direct face shot of the watch. But my guess is that this is the BK.

How close am I?
 

donaldejose

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levelmanroger:

So now you are saying
1. noob
2. BKLM/WM9
3. "cheapie"
You want to stick with that or change your opinion based on BMW760. After all, remember BMW760 has a friend who has the gen which BMW760 has studied in detail. "My best friend has this watch in a GEN. He's had it for over 5 years. I have offered to buy it from him endless times. He always flakes at the last moment. I am very familiar with it and how it looks up close." But then again you own the BKLM/WM9.


BMW760:

So your best opinion is
1. worst
2. better
3. best
Notice you have picked as the "best" one the same watch levelmanroger picked as the "cheapie." What goes?

Can't you two experts agree better than that or do you want to blame it on my "poor quality" photographs? These photos display about 5 times normal sise on my computer monitor. If you want even larger photos your internet browser should enable you to enlarge the webpage. The detail in the photos will hold up even enlarged 10 times normal. Try it, you will see. Either of you two want to change your opinions or are you each "sticking to your guns?"

This is an interesting experiment, isn't it? I have done it many time with all sorts of people I know just to test my opinions in "the real world" as opposed to the "unreal world" of RWI gen and rep experts. The results have always been the same: people just cannot tell on any consistent basis. Fakemaster has always been correct in making this observation.

Anyone else what to hazard a guess before I post the answers?

Don't worry about being wrong. It all simply illustrates my point that so very, very few people will be able to tell what you are wearing.
 

Kerbus

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The BK Sub uses a Clark crystal, so no etched coronet. It sure looks like all of the watches, the Invicta included, have done a very good job of capturing the Submariner blue color. I would say that and decent gold color would be the most important "tells" when viewed on the wrist from a personal distance vicinity.
 

TESLA760

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Donald, I stick by my comments on the first one. That is a horrible insert. Like I said, look at the 4. I stand by my "opinions". That's all. But like I said many times, if you're going to wear this watch, you'd better not be wearing flip flops and a $10 Walmart Hawaiian shirt. Even if it's real, people will think you're a poser.
 

MrYesterday

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1. noob factoy
2. BKLM/WM9
3. "cheapo"
seems right to me.

BTW, there's too much passive aggressiveness ITT. We're talking about scrutinizing watches here fellas, not your jocks. ;)
 

donaldejose

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We could probably use an evaluation of all the TT subs out there to develop some consensus as to which is the best and which is the second best.

There does seem to be a consensus that BKLM/WM9 YM is the best and T4D is the second best. I don't know the ranking after that.

I suspect the BKLM/WM9 TT is the best but I don't know the second best or the third best etc. The Noobfactory TT may be out of the running now if it is no longer produced. Can anyone confirm that? Also, the BKLM/WM9 TT can be seen to be out of the running because it really is no longer available if you have not already ordered one some time ago.

Perhaps someone else knows the ranking of the TT's which people currently can buy.
 

levelmanroger

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OK - I too was looking at this thread on my iPhone. I now have had a look on the computer, and it does look a bit different.
#1 - silver on the sides of the mid-links and the "M"s are way off. Etched crown very visable. Flat pearl. This has to be the cheapo.
#2 - good dial, good bezel, and good pearl. Mid-links look hollow. No etched crown, as per the Clark crystal. This is the WM9.
#3 - good dial, bezel and decent pearl (a bit sunken), and looks to maybe have hollow mid-links (can't tell for sure). But also looks to have stainless on the sides of the center raised portion of the end links. Etched crown very visable. This had better be the Noob. If not, then #1 is the Noob and the Noob sucks.
#4 - same as I stated before.

I stand by my guess, Donald. Now tell me where I'm wrong.
 

donaldejose

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Levelmanroger: You are correct and the points of your analysis are correct. I am sorry I mislead you at first, it was my error of recollection. I thought I had put the noob first but when I went back to check the photos myself I saw the noob is last, not first. The prices I paid (to the best of my recollection since some were purchased years ago) are about as follows:
1. $125 including postage
2. $700 including postage
3. $175 including postage
BUT, they all look very good at first glance, don't they? You don't have to pay $700 to get a striking watch. How many of the people you meet at work will every know the details levemanroger used to distinguish between these watches?

If you can see the differences and if those differences are worth over $500 more dollars to you then buy the BKLM/WM9 (but you cannot buy one since they are all sold out now).

If the difference isn't something you can easily see when you look at the photos buy the less expensive ones. Why pay more if it isn't to avoid a glaring error to your eyes?

Unfortunately, the noob TT is also no longer available to my knowledge.

So the only option is the remaining watch. We do need a review of existing TTs to identify the best currently available watches.

For those of us with less trained eyes, a series of photos like this can help us learn what to look for when evaluating watches shown on a dealer's website (but the photos on that website will not be as detailed).
 

TESLA760

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One this is sure. That first one you posted looks atrocious. But your point is well taken. Most people will only see you watch at a quick glimpse. Unless you're sitting next to them and they are focused on it, they would never get to analyze it the way we just did. Even if they had that opportunity, chances are they would never spot the differences in #2 and #3
 

levelmanroger

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True. If someone were wearing the watch moving around, I may be able to spot the silver sides of the mid links.
Sitting at a table next to them I'd spot the pearl and maybe beat rate.
I'd have to look really closely to spot the "M"s.
 

donaldejose

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Not only would the watch with the most "flaws" be hard to detect under the circumstances we all experience in ordinary life, I believe the photos establish that a watch can have lots of little "flaws" and still be quite attractive.

Yes, when we look at the photos to detect any minute differences those of us with trained eyes can see them simply because we know what to look for. BUT look at it the other way. Instead of looking at those watches to see the minor "flaws" look at them to see the similarities. The watches are 5% different visually; but also are 95% the same visually. Notice how the blue color is the same, notice how the sheen on the dial is the same, notice how the SS is the same, notice how the gold is the same, notice how all three present the same striking presence, notice how the hands are all the same (none use ss hands), notice how the Rolex crown is all the same, notice how the word Rolex under the crown is all the same, etc. Basically, all the things an ordinary person will notice when looking at those watches are going to create the same impression. Unless a person knows to look for misaligned m's on the dial, they won't notice that "flaw," same with solid midlinks, gold on the sides of the midlinks, etc. Even the lowest priced rep in this sampling looks very good. That is amazing: a $125 watch which looks so, so identical to a $10,000 watch. Simply amazing, I am impressed with the $125 watch for what it is able to do at that price. Some people call watch no. 1 "cheap." I think that is unfair to the watch and doesn't respect it for all the things it does get right. It is better to call it inexpensive (a fact) and containing the most flaws of these three (a fact) but the watch should be respected for the 95% of things it gets right and does so for a very low price.

I still have all three of these watches and am not embarrassed to wear any of them. I get compliments on whichever of them I happen wear; no one ever says "look at those misaligned m's on the dial!" or "I can see some silver on the sides of the midlinks" or "the 4 on the bezel is not the correct font." To ordinary people in the real world these three watches are identical. They see the 95% positive image; only we seem to obsess over the 5% "flaws." And that is fine, it is educational, we want to be able to select the "best." But we don't have to unnecessarily run down the least expensive watch in the process.