Great "Bang for the Buck"

[donaldejose]

I am posting photos of three different watches. THREE DIFFERENT watches. NOT three photos of the same watch.

One of these watches costs approximately $550 more than the other two. I am sure that difference is well worth it to the very sophisticated members of RWI who can see and enjoy the difference.
But my point in this post is different. What about the rest of us? Do we need to be embarrassed about our "inexpensive" or "cheap" rep?

Not all members of RWI are sophisticated enough to be bothered by minute details or to have the extra $550.
Some members would rather use their money to enjoy many less expensive reps.
So how much visual difference does that extra $550 really make?

Asked another way.
You are going to a fancy dinner party and want to wear a fancy watch.
You have these three watches in your watch box.
Do you think it will make any difference to anyone attending that party which of the three you wear?
Can they tell the difference? Will they be equally impressed with any one of the three?
You are viewing these watches about 3-4 times their normal size.
Even magnified 3-4x do you see a real significant difference?
Significant enough to you to justify $550 more dollars?
If so, buy the more expensive one.
If not, buy the less expensive one.
There is something for everyone.

My point is that we are fortunate to be able to get such great "bang for the buck."

We should be thankful we can obtain beauty at different price points.
We should praise the "nearly perfect" reps we can get for high dollars.
But we should not "run down" and "belittle" the less expensive reps.
Just point out the differences, but don't belittle them.
Thank God great beauty is available to us at all price points.

 

[JC7]

This was a great and very thoughtful post Don. I hope many members stop by and read this, you make a great point. ...at first I thought you screwed up and posted the same photo 3 times.

 

[d4m.test]

Excellent post and very true! I won't spend too much money on my reps but I won't spend nothing on them. I try to find the middle ground.

As for quality on those three, I think the first is the most expensive - the second is the middle priced one - and the third is the cheapest. The pearl was the giveaway to me. Although the first and second were very close.

Do reveal where you bought these watches from and what model they are!

 

[donaldejose]

Interesting, isn't it?

 

[maxlawbr]

Hey Don,

Those are very nice and attractive watches.

But I thought the third one is nicer than the others, beside the visible etched crown in it, I think it has the best pearl, the good looking dial (crispy inscriptions), non wooky, or less wooky.

Am I wrong?

Max

 

[redstars]

I think the price illustrates the difference between serious hobbyists and whatever reasons other people buy reps. For some people, this IS their hobby, and they spend accordingly. Others might just be trend whores.

How fortunate we are to have a price point appropriate for a variety of people.

 

[Spirit]

- First one is the cheapest.
- Second one is the WM9
- Third one is a noobmariner.

The best option for those who can´t see the differences is the noob, as even if you don´t know it, I bet it gets a bit more of "peace of mind" to know that you have a very accurate 'bang for the buck' on it for way less than the WM9, and still quite the same price as the cheapest.

Funny thing is that no matter which one you choose, the pearl will have to be changed to give that "final" touch of gen feeling.
Even on the WM9

Cheers,
Spirit.

 

[MMs]

well I guess I'm a snob.
I can tell the visual differences right off the bat.
less than a second, and Spirit is right.
so for me, the extra money on the WM9 BK is worth it, for sure.

and let me say this:
I don't buy reps so others can be impressed with them.
I buy reps that I am impressed with. I don't care what they think,
it's my watch. I'm the one who wears it, looks at it all the time and
I'm the one who holds the standards that it needs to live up to.

the extra price of more expensive reps is not just the finer details
that make them look better, it's also in their heart and their construction.
yes, the noob is a great watch, we all know that. but the WM9 is superior.
basically in every single aspect. maybe by only a little here or there.
if you buy a cheap watch that looks good, it means that you just bought
a cheap movement. it would be like putting a second hand heart in your
chest. and that's not the route I wish to go.

the argument that you'd rather have more cheap reps than fewer high quality
reps doesn't hold water with me either. unless of course you really don't care
much for watches, don't mind your reps having obvious glaring flaws and poor
quality movements in them. in that case you probably also wear cheap clothes,
but have your dresser and closet brimming with them. and probably also have
a cheap car and one or two more, probably broken down, cheap cars sitting in
your driveway. see where I'm going with this?

I'm not trying to be offensive, but I don't really care for the quantity over quality
attitude. just slow down, give yourself some time, and eventually you will be able
to own all of the watches you want, in their highest quality rep versions. at least
in that case you won't have buyers remorse.

/rant over

nice pictures by the way, and I appreciate you trying to make a point, it just doesn't
jive with my own personal philosophy, that's all. but I agree we are fortunate to have
reps of differing quality to serve all of us and our desires.

 

[JellyJoe]

Agreed Spi, I'd change the pearl on both and the whole insert on the noob. You have to file it down anyway so better do the job on a decent one.
WM9 pricey but always great, lovely dial apart from crown logo and text, a bit "printed". Still the best one tho. I have seen nice solid gold crowns for around 90-120 bucks on the bay, I'd prolly go for one for a tt Sub.

Point made, donald. We sure have reps for every pocket and thats a good thing.

 

[donaldejose]

To each his own.

There isn't just one valid philosophy of life, there are many.

I bought one of each of these so I share everyone's point of view and I can see the "obvious" differences, which is a product of spending much time on RWI learning from others.

Thank God for RWI.

Still, my wife wonders just why I even care about such minute details. Yet, she insists upon driving a Lexus while I am happy with a Hyundai!

To each his own.

 

[d4m.test]

well I guess I'm a snob.
I can tell the visual differences right off the bat.
less than a second, and Spirit is right.
so for me, the extra money on the WM9 BK is worth it, for sure.

and let me say this:
I don't buy reps so others can be impressed with them.
I buy reps that I am impressed with. I don't care what they think,
it's my watch. I'm the one who wears it, looks at it all the time and
I'm the one who holds the standards that it needs to live up to.

the extra price of more expensive reps is not just the finer details
that make them look better, it's also in their heart and their construction.
yes, the noob is a great watch, we all know that. but the WM9 is superior.
basically in every single aspect. maybe by only a little here or there.
if you buy a cheap watch that looks good, it means that you just bought
a cheap movement. it would be like putting a second hand heart in your
chest. and that's not the route I wish to go.

the argument that you'd rather have more cheap reps than fewer high quality
reps doesn't hold water with me either. unless of course you really don't care
much for watches, don't mind your reps having obvious glaring flaws and poor
quality movements in them. in that case you probably also wear cheap clothes,
but have your dresser and closet brimming with them. and probably also have
a cheap car and one or two more, probably broken down, cheap cars sitting in
your driveway. see where I'm going with this?

I'm not trying to be offensive, but I don't really care for the quantity over quality
attitude. just slow down, give yourself some time, and eventually you will be able
to own all of the watches you want, in their highest quality rep versions. at least
in that case you won't have buyers remorse.

/rant over

nice pictures by the way, and I appreciate you trying to make a point, it just doesn't
jive with my own personal philosophy, that's all. but I agree we are fortunate to have
reps of differing quality to serve all of us and our desires.

I do not mean to sound disrespectful but from that rather snob post - it sounds like you DO buy reps to pull one over on people. It's up to the buyer to decide whether it's worth buying the top rep or the cheaper model. At the end of the day, they all come from the same place...

How they dress has nothing to do with the person! I know a couple who dress immaculately, with designer labels but they both wear obivious fake watches. And it just doesn't go. They drive a very good car but they don't have the true Rolex watch. Just a bad Rolex!
Yet, someone who wears an 18k gold Sub who dresses in a cheapy white top and a pair of jeans - actually has the real Rolex! I was so surprised when I found out it was real. Oh and he drives a piece of junk. (in my opinion)

Personally, I doubt that all the hype about some dealers fitting ETA themselves and using the highest quality is even remotely true. This is a counterfeit trade, so quality is hit and miss. You may get lucky or you may get a lemon. That's the way it goes. I accept that and I am prepared to take the risk as I am interested in watches and I want a collection. But there is no way I am spending more than $250 on a rep. It's not a QC'd watch, it's not designed by the maker, the movement isn't QC'd - nada! It's just a imitation to something which will be perfect in everyway. The movement isn't something to be too concerned with. Eventually getting replicas will get harder as ETA will stop supplying movements outside. I am surprised they supply anyway! So soon the clones will be everywhere.

The quality will be slightly better, I agree with that. But not for the price they charge. After all, it could break at any point.

I will buy a reasonable priced rep with the ETA clone movement from one of the Chinese dealers on here. It looks fine, the quality is fine, and it should last for a while. I don't hold my breath but then if I did - I would just wear a Casio G-Shock and not worry!

Oh, and I'd much rather have a collection of $200 reps than have one good rep. As at the end of the day - the $200 rep is no more genuine than the $500 rep.

Rant over! And I was not trying to be disrespectful. I just found your post very arrogant.

 

[MMs]

I do not mean to sound disrespectful but from that rather snob post - it sounds like you DO buy reps to pull one over on people. It's up to the buyer to decide whether it's worth buying the top rep or the cheaper model. At the end of the day, they all come from the same place...

How they dress has nothing to do with the person! I know a couple who dress immaculately, with designer labels but they both wear obivious fake watches. And it just doesn't go. They drive a very good car but they don't have the true Rolex watch. Just a bad Rolex!
Yet, someone who wears an 18k gold Sub who dresses in a cheapy white top and a pair of jeans - actually has the real Rolex! I was so surprised when I found out it was real. Oh and he drives a piece of junk. (in my opinion)

Personally, I doubt that all the hype about some dealers fitting ETA themselves and using the highest quality is even remotely true. This is a counterfeit trade, so quality is hit and miss. You may get lucky or you may get a lemon. That's the way it goes. I accept that and I am prepared to take the risk as I am interested in watches and I want a collection. But there is no way I am spending more than $250 on a rep. It's not a QC'd watch, it's not designed by the maker, the movement isn't QC'd - nada! It's just a imitation to something which will be perfect in everyway. The movement isn't something to be too concerned with. Eventually getting replicas will get harder as ETA will stop supplying movements outside. I am surprised they supply anyway! So soon the clones will be everywhere.

The quality will be slightly better, I agree with that. But not for the price they charge. After all, it could break at any point.

I will buy a reasonable priced rep with the ETA clone movement from one of the Chinese dealers on here. It looks fine, the quality is fine, and it should last for a while. I don't hold my breath but then if I did - I would just wear a Casio G-Shock and not worry!

Oh, and I'd much rather have a collection of $200 reps than have one good rep. As at the end of the day - the $200 rep is no more genuine than the $500 rep.

Rant over! And I was not trying to be disrespectful. I just found your post very arrogant.

yeah, I've seen you post over and over that real ETA movements don't
actually make it in watches and that 99.9% of the time it's a lie. that's
your opinion, and you can believe it. I have several reps with ETA
movements in them, but I'm sure you think they're asian. these watches
do not all come from the same place by the way.

I am gathering that you don't know who George is. otherwise known as
Watchmaker9 (WM9). I think if you knew of him and his work you
probably wouldn't be saying some of that stuff. are you aware that
of the 3 watches pictured, they don't all come from China? are you aware
that the WM9 watches have guaranteed genuine eta movements? do you
know that craftsmanship that goes into constructing one of his watches?
to compare them to something you order from a Chinese dealer isn't fair
if you ask me, the price reflects the craftsmanship.

thinking that cheap cars, cheap clothes, cheap watches are equal counterparts
to their more expensive, better constructed ones is just not something I agree with.
I never said anyone was fooling anyone, I just prefer quality over quantity,
and I can appreciate the quality of a WM9 watch. like I said, it's not about the
outward appearance one bit. they all look identical to the general public, it's about
my own standards and opinions.

if you're comfortable with cheap reps, like I said, then that's cool. but
I'm not. There's one here for everyone. you like the cheap one, I like
the expensive one, we can all get along and agree to disagree. the
market offers us both what we want so we can just be grateful to have
that advantage and opportunity.

 

[JC7]

I agree that if you get something like a WM9 or something special built from a Modder like Vac, or Concepta you'll be getting a swiss ETA. But Maestro is right in saying that we shouldn't be buying "swiss" ETA in our reps from China.. most of the time it's going to be a clone anyways. This is the consensus on the forum however individuals can do as they like and like everyone is saying different options for different people we just have to make sure we don't get condescending to one another because that's not cool. That being said I won't buy a 21j.

I've heard this here before and I can't remember who said it so I apologize for copyright infringement.
...there are few instances where I'll I'm willing to spend double or triple the cost of decent rep only to make a few small mods that only 1-2% of the general population can notice.. and that 1-2% isn't going to be fooled by my rep anyways.

Some people just enjoy modding and all the little details though and I believe it's more about enjoying the hobby than trying to make it closer to Gen.. FFS I have friends here who are doctors, lawyers, pilots and secret agents LOL.. It's not that ppl can't afford the best, they make choices for what suits them best. Why else you think OP has 3 of the exact same watch? ..I wouldn't be surprised if Don pulled the Genuine article out next.

 

[jonasprivate]

I think the third one is the most expensive.

 

[d4m.test]

yeah, I've seen you post over and over that real ETA movements don't
actually make it in watches and that 99.9% of the time it's a lie. that's
your opinion, and you can believe it. I have several reps with ETA
movements in them, but I'm sure you think they're asian. these watches
do not all come from the same place by the way.

I am gathering that you don't know who George is. otherwise known as
Watchmaker9 (WM9). I think if you knew of him and his work you
probably wouldn't be saying some of that stuff. are you aware that
of the 3 watches pictured, they don't all come from China? are you aware
that the WM9 watches have guaranteed genuine eta movements? do you
know that craftsmanship that goes into constructing one of his watches?
to compare them to something you order from a Chinese dealer isn't fair
if you ask me, the price reflects the craftsmanship.

thinking that cheap cars, cheap clothes, cheap watches are equal counterparts
to their more expensive, better constructed ones is just not something I agree with.
I never said anyone was fooling anyone, I just prefer quality over quantity,
and I can appreciate the quality of a WM9 watch. like I said, it's not about the
outward appearance one bit. they all look identical to the general public, it's about
my own standards and opinions.

if you're comfortable with cheap reps, like I said, then that's cool. but
I'm not. There's one here for everyone. you like the cheap one, I like
the expensive one, we can all get along and agree to disagree. the
market offers us both what we want so we can just be grateful to have
that advantage and opportunity.

Firstly, the clone's are coming quicker than you could imagine. Just look on other boards about movements being sold as genuine and ending up as clone. Yes I am recommending others to buy the clone as I personally would hate to know I have been ripped off. And others should know about the risks of buying one. So from me, you'll never see me saying buy the Swiss version as I think you will not get the Swiss movement. If you do, you are lucky. Why bother paying for something when there is a 99% near-identical copy which takes the gen parts and can be serviced easily? They now have a stamp on it which says ETA.

Take a look at the best sub shootout, all the movements par one or two are the clone eta or the a21j.

WM9, yes I have heard of him. And where do you think he gets all his parts from? Switzerland, maybe Rolex themselves? Don't be ridiculous. Of course all these modders get the parts from China. Everything you own is from China (par you're Acura, that's Japanese but parts made in China) Same with other modders. I respect there work but I think it's only marginally better than what you get from Chinese dealers. After all, the watch is FAKE no matter how good the parts are. A watchsmith will be able to identify which is the fake and which is the real Rolex. The only difference is he/she may work it out quicker with the cheaper reps. But you're not going to fool anyone with a modded or hand made rep. 99% people would believe a well-made "Rollex" is real. As most people apart from watch lovers even take a glance at your watch!

At the end of the day both are a fake Rolex. Words a watch smith would say about any rep we have is crazy. You like the expensive rep, yet you don't have the genuine Rolex. So you are no better than someone cheap who tries to fool everyone with a fake Rolex. But is at the end of the day; you're cheap for buying a fake.

I have decided to get a genuine Sub maybe on a finance plan, I think I will go for the 16610 as it's slightly cheaper and still around. I believe this beats any replica out there. And the craftmanship is a million times better than any modded or best edition Sub out there.

I still want a collection but for now only one will be genuine!

P.S

Not being disrespectful and I hope you don't take offence. I just feel what you are saying is a little replica too...

I do respect the work of the modders who make those "near perfect" reps. Please don't get me wrong about that!

 

[donaldejose]

And my point is .......

There is room in this hobby for all of us with our different values.

Let's not put anyone down as being "stupid."

Different preferences are just different preferences, that's all.

If someone has a TT gen, please send it to me and I will photograph it with the same background for comparison.

Or then again, maybe one of these is a gen I threw in as a ringer!

 

[d4m.test]

You are quite right. And I edited my post to reflect that both choices are valid; and none are stupid.

 

[BCE]

This is my first post. Hi guys! It's great to be here.

I think it all depends on what part of the watch is most important to you. To me, it's the crystal and second hand and perfection of each dots on the dial. I like WM9 with the crystal sticks out like gen and the second hands on all three with longer hands after the dot. If noob can make a watch that has the crystal like the WM9's, I would buy a noob instead. I know to other people, they may pay more attention on the crown guard, the position of the crown, etc.

 

[ro1151]

Agreed Spi, I'd change the pearl on both and the whole insert on the noob. You have to file it down anyway so better do the job on a decent one.
WM9 pricey but always great, lovely dial apart from crown logo and text, a bit "printed". Still the best one tho. I have seen nice solid gold crowns for around 90-120 bucks on the bay, I'd prolly go for one for a tt Sub.

Point made, donald. We sure have reps for every pocket and thats a good thing.

who is your (or any member's) favorite supplier for inserts and pearls at the moment?

 

[ThinkBachs]

Imagine if there were a dealer that only took photographs like donaldejose, they'd be a gazillionaire!

As far as telling them apart, my first impression was holy carp, awesome photos!

Then I started reading that there were some very definite differences- so I stopped reading to see if I could pic the same ones that were pointed out as the better/best. Whew, I did it.

The first thing I noticed was the edge of the bezel- too easy, the first one is not so good. Then I went to the insert, dial, and links. I checked to see what Spirit discussed and came to the same conclusions. The middle one is definitely worth more because of the noticeable details.

It's nice to get a rep that's close, but once you have it for a while, you begin to notice these differences, then you sell it to someone who was just like you and move up in quality because it matters.