Advice needed for 3KF 5167a-001 Patek Philippe Franken Project

[r3plik4]

Hello everyone,

I have been following this forum for the last couple of weeks when I first decided to try and get my hands on a replica 5167a-001 PP. I've been following several threads closely to decide on which factory to get the time piece from and with the combined knowledge of everyone here, I pulled the trigger on the 3KF version which has just arrived today. So far, I've been pretty impressed with it. Some noteworthy observations:

1) [Dial] Date wheel appears to be relatively okay as far as font weight is concerned, but it's still a tiny bit off center. What's also interesting is that the dial now has the Swiss Made text at the bottom, which I'm not sure is a good thing. Reason here being that some folks have mentioned that the earlier versions of this piece (pre-2009 and without the Swiss Made text) have greenish lume on the dial markers, but in instances where the hands have been replaced with service ones, you'd end up with whitish hands and greenish dials; the ones with post 2009 and with Swiss Made on it, however, would have whiter dial marker which matches the 3KF hands - this in part due to the newer lume that is applied on the later versions.

2) [Case back] Movement is engraved in this version, but on closer inspection, the engraving is rough around the edges - nothing the naked eye can pick up though.

3) [Steel bracelet] I went for the SS bracelet version just to ensure I didn't get the one with the gold markings at the lugs, so I ended up with.. well.. the bracelets. There hasn't been much coverage about the quality of the bracelets so I figured that I may as well provide some first hand insights on it: on comparison to the gen bracelet, it appears that the rep one does not suffer the same issue as the Nautilaus reps where the end links are too big.

3KF Rep

Gen

4) The clasps are a bit of a disappointment for me, but didn't come as a surprise as many have left the same feedback about it being loose. The bright side of this, however, is that the engraving and alignment is relatively well done.



My biggest gripe on the above observations right now is just on the dial, specifically the lume. I'm keen to get this replaced (vs. doing a relume cos... why not?) and then move on to acquiring other gen bits (hands, datewheel and possibly rubber strap and clasps) to franken this baby up.

And on that note, I would like to seek your kind advice as to whether a gen 5167a dial would fit nicely into into the 3KF case. I'm about to place my order for a gen dial that I've spent weeks finding, but am incredibly nervous that it wouldn't fit.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you guys! :thumbsup:

 

[r3plik4]

Saw some posts that seemed to suggest that the gen dial and date wheel are interchangeable with the 3KF parts, so I went ahead with the purchase. Received the dial from France within a week of payment, so really excited to get started with this project.

Some side by side comparison pictures for those that are interested in the differences (gen on the left, rep on the right):

Notable observations

1) Under natural light, the rep dial's sunburst has a lot more contrast and seem to be of a darker shade overall.

2) The lume on the gen is noticeably whiter than the rep's. Keeping my fingers crossed that this would mean that the rep hands will be a better fit in terms of lume consistency.

3) The outline of the gen indices appear to quite a fair bit slimmer than the rep's.

Notable observations

1) The glow on the rep's indices seem to be stronger, but am not too sure if I have exposed both dials consistently in sunlight. That said, the glow on the rep's hands appear to be more consistent with the gen's indices.

Gonna be sending the timepiece in to get the dial fitted this afternoon and have the movement checked out. The rotor was stuck on the 2nd day after I received the watch, which resulted in the watch stopping on my wrist a couple of times. Was initially quite puzzled as it starts moving again as soon as I pulled the crown out, but figured that I had to manually wind it just to get it to last the day. What was also concerning was how the dial seemed to shift a little whenever I push the crown back in and tighten it so I'm just hoping that it is nothing too serious overall.

Will keep this thread updated about the outcome of the diagnosis and the overall franken build.

 

[r3plik4]

I completely forgot to add that I got lucky and managed to get my hands on a gen strap for a really good price over the last week. Some bloke cut his too short and was letting it go at only 200 bucks. After confirming that it has enough segments for my small wrist, I took the plunge and went for it. Some pictures and notes of it attached to the watch:



I believe that this has been covered quite extensively in other threads and I can provide another first-hand confirmation that the "ghost" edge does exist on the gen strap. Special shout out to those of you who have provided the advice to use 20mm x 1.8mm spring bars to get a better fit - this worked perfectly for me.



What was incredibly surprising was how the gen strap automatically corrected the loose closure of the clasps. I did try to bend the curved base of the clasps when it was attached to the rep strap previously, and while it did help to close up the clasps a little bit better, it was not as significant of a difference as when I switched over to the gen ones. Note that while the above shows the clasps closing perfectly when the watch is off the wrist, I can confirm that this is also the case when it is on.

 

[KilltheDeath]

Thank you for your sharing!

 

[e46seca]

Really nice overall.... The dial was pretty much plug and play ? Also you used the same 3KF hands correct ? Hows the movement treating the new dial ? Any issues to report

 

[r3plik4]

Really nice overall.... The dial was pretty much plug and play ? Also you used the same 3KF hands correct ? Hows the movement treating the new dial ? Any issues to report

I have not gotten the watch back yet so not too sure if the dial will cause any movement issues or if it requires further modification to fit the 3KF case. I’ll be sure to report back here as soon as I get a status update.

As for the hands - yes, I only have the 3KF hands to use. It hasn’t been easy sourcing for the gen ones so I intend to get a relume to match the gen dial’s indices better. It’s gonna be far easier and cheaper to do that in the interim.

 

[r3plik4]

UPDATE!

Finally got the watch back from the watch smith. I was informed that the rotor was jammed due to a protruding part on a gear or around the gear so some filing was required (yikes!) to rectify it. The rotor is now moving around freely as it should, and when left unwound overnight, the watch did not stop. I’m hoping it stays that way!

Now, for those interested in how the gen dial turned out…

Some notes:

1) I wasn’t told that any modifications were required, so I reckon it would be safe to assume that it’s a direct fit.

2) As expected, the lume is a lot lighter (or whiter) as compared to the 3KF dial, but while the difference in lume consistency has improved a tiny bit, it is unfortunately still not a good match to the hands. Conclusion here is that a relume on the hands is gonna be a must for me.

3) I was surprised that the date wheel alignment has become considerably off after the installation of the gen dial. Two possible reasons for this occurrence: one would obviously be the difference in the position and size of the date window, or two, the date wheel alignment has been affected when the movement was taken apart to be rectified. I’m not bothered either way since it has been my intention to get an esteemed modder from this forum to help me with this, so I’ll probably live with this in the interim.

4) If you pay close attention to the region near the 9 o’clock marker, you’d notice a faint squiggly line there. I’ve already spotted this even before I paid for the dial, but had incorrectly assumed that it was a piece of micro fabric or dust which can be easily removed. The watch smith told me that it is likely a hairline scratch or a blemish which rendered the dial defective, hence allowing for it to turn up in the grey market. How true - I don’t know. I’m clearly no expert in this field so take what you want away from that little nugget of information dispensed to me. Since the mark is relatively faint and only noticeable under certain lighting conditions, I have no intention to try and fix or replace this. To me, it is still very much within my threshold of acceptance.

5) The bumps on the hour markers seem to be evidently more puffy and defined. Never noticed this when I was comparing the gen dial to the 3KF one in my previous post. For some strange reason, it has just become more apparent after it has been installed.

I’ll be back for more reports once I get down to the relume and the date wheel mod, so stay tuned as I endeavour to make this a well-rounded franken build.

Wish me luck! Till then~

 

[majwilliams0308]

Agreed with all of your observations. The gen dial, there's nothing quite like it thus far on the replica market. The puffy lume is wonderful, as is the finer sunburst pattern.

I have a small defect on my gen Aquanaut dial as well, but it's well worth dealing with that small defect for an overall amazing experience.

The date wheel will need to be changed for sure, but I would wait until some of the amazing DW projects are off the ground.

 

[Peguine]

after doing a butt ton of research i found that the DW alignment issue occurs quite often in gen watches as well. If the DW and the dial aren't born together from patek they tend to have misalignment issues.

 

[eririn]

Here is my franken
Gen dial
Gen second hand
Gen dw
Lume on hands and dial also mismatch as per gen

 

[Peguine]

my gen hands and dial do not mismatch though

 

[r3plik4]

Here is my franken
Gen dial
Gen second hand
Gen dw
Lume on hands and dial also mismatch as per gen

Nice piece you have there. For some reason the mismatch doesn’t seem as stark as mine. Could be lighting. I’m curious: are your hour and minute hands the 3KF V2 or V1 ones? I recall a mention in some other thread that the V1 ones aren’t as white as the latest batch.

 

[r3plik4]

my gen hands and dial do not mismatch though

Oh man, you managed to secure gen hands? I’ve been searching high and low to no avail. Lucky you!

If you don’t mind, would love to see some pictures of your build.

 

[eririn]

Nice piece you have there. For some reason the mismatch doesn’t seem as stark as mine. Could be lighting. I’m curious: are your hour and minute hands the 3KF V2 or V1 ones? I recall a mention in some other thread that the V1 ones aren’t as white as the latest batch.

Mine are v1

 

[r3plik4]

Really nice overall.... The dial was pretty much plug and play ? Also you used the same 3KF hands correct ? Hows the movement treating the new dial ? Any issues to report

UPDATE #2

To my chagrin, the movement has gone bonkers again. Stopping short here of saying it died because the rotor is still moving freely, but no amount of manual winding would allow the watch to run beyond an hour or so. The only way it lasts is if I don’t screw the crown down completely, but it’s ridiculous to wear any watch that way so this is definitely not something I can live with.

I am not pinning the blame on the watch smith or the factory because I simply don’t have the facts and I don’t know if the issue is inherent or has been caused by something else during/post delivery, so count my judgement here as reserved.

Right now, I am just focused on getting this right: I am getting the piece over to an esteemed member of this forum for the remaining mods and to see if the movement is salvageable. In parallel, I’ve placed another order for the 3KF piece so that I have back up pieces to work with in case anything requires replacement. Call me crazy, if you will (my dealer did ????), but I’m going to remain steadfast in my pursuit.

 

[r3plik4]

Mine are v1

Ah, got it. Thanks for confirming. The V1 hands do indeed look like a better match to the gen dial.

 

[r3plik4]

She's back!



But wait a minute, you say, I don't see any difference at all..

Not to the naked eye, no, cos what's different is mostly on the inside.

For those of you who haven't had a chance to read the previous posts on my franken journey so far, here's a brief recap:

Just a day or two after receiving my watch, it stopped on my wrist. Upon further inspection, I noticed that the rotor was jammed. Thinking that it was a power reserve issue, I pulled the crown out with the intention to adjust the time and wind it, but discovered that it somehow freed something within the movement and the second hand began ticking again. The rotor remained stuck despite the revival so I decided to contact my dealer to ask for his advice and he recommended a watch smith investigate the issue.

I sent it in, waited a couple of days and got the watch back with the diagnosis that some poor and rough finishes were sanded down for it to run smoothly again.

Problem solved, right? Nope.

Barely 2 hours after getting it back, it stopped again!

At this point, I was pretty much resigned to the possibility that I was either unlucky enough to receive a rare lemon from the factory or had the watch damaged during transit. But as legend has it, this was not the end.

Being the fumbling bloke I'm typically known for, I hadn't connected the dots that I would find my saviour in legend whom I was already in contact with over a date wheel mod project. It took quite a few exchanges before I realised that I shouldn't waste any more time in getting the piece over to him.

I can go on and on about the incredible experience I've had and the wealth of knowledge I've picked up from him in just a few short conversations, but I'll just sum it up to this single thought: he certainly lives up to his name.

So for those of you who are thinking of getting a 3KF 5167 and are on a look out for potential issues that should be duly addressed early on, here's what has been diagnosed and fixed:

The movement stopped because a tiny little screw got loose and was happily gallivanting around the movement until it got caught in one of the gears. And because there wasn't any issue with the power reserve to begin with, the movement was trying to get going as per usual and eventually sheared something off.

This entire dramatic episode could have been avoided in the first place, right? Right? I think so..

I know that there are two schools of thoughts out there: leave the movement as is when you get the watch or get it serviced as soon as you receive it. Either has its own merits, but as someone who has just gone through all of the above, I'm definitely leaning towards recommending the latter. As long as you get a reputable and knowledgeable person to do it, the pros would definitely outweigh the cons because loose parts such as these would definitely be picked up by an experience pair of eyes and hands.

Just please learn from my mistake: if you want a 324sc movement serviced, get someone who knows what he/she is doing.

I cannot stress this enough because of the experience I've had with the other watch smith. I found out that his service of the movement didn't include ridding some parts of the old grease. He simply added more oil to them and called it a day. Needless to say, this probably why he was withholding so much information from me and didn't give me the details of what he actually did until I got the dealer to probe further.

And in other news, I never knew that several topics on the case re-brush mod referred to this two distinct bevelled lines on the side of the watch. Thankfully, legend dispensed this information for my consideration and I obviously didn't hesitate to get it done.



Up next will be phase 2 of this legendary franken project where we'll be looking to get the date wheel in place, shave the crown (and stem? I don't know) to reduce protrusion from the crown guard and perhaps, a swap with gen hands if I can get my hands on them, if not, then maybe a relume should suffice.

Till then~

 

[RD35]

Thank you for sharing.

 

[forty]

Awesome thread thanks for sharing

 

[160million]

great read and really good advice you provided there. a franken 5167a projecxt is still on my bucket list hence i was on the look-out for a dial as well.
i did found this one here and when i double checked i noticed the scratch right next to the 9.

is this the dial you bought? I am wondering why it is still up on chrono..

https://www.chrono24.de/patekphilippe/zifferblatt-patek-philippe-aquanaut--id19676713.htm