6610 Gilt Dial EXPLORER build ... Twin Sisters

[manodeoro]

kilowattore Jsebwc jimcon11
It seems I'll need your friendly opinions about that build ... your answer will influence the choice of the movement/hands
So what's going on ?


CHECKING THE GEN PICS :

I have checked and rechecked almost all Gen pics I can find on the web and it appears there are 2 "groups" of 6610

- one with a longer minutes hand touching the outer circle of the chapter ring (left on the pic below)
- one with a shorter minutes hand touching the end of the minutes markers of the chapter ring (right on the pic below)

Both seems to be legit ... the ones with long minutes hand could be early 6610s (before 1956/57) and the ones with short minutes hand being later 6610s (after 1957/58)
But almost all websites telling the 6610's history show only the one with long minutes hand

CHECKING THE AVAILABLE HANDESTS :
I searched the diffent sellers and have found 2 sorts of gold handsets with the right "long" hour hand
- one with hands length H9 / M13 / S13.5 only for 2824-2 movement
if I go with that handset I will shorten the seconds hand to 13mm but the consequence is I MUST use a 2824-2 movement
- one with hands legnth H8.5 / M12 / S12.5
if I go with that handset I won't modify anything and I CAN use a DG2813


DESIGNING 2 CORRESPONDING DIALS :

Starting from that I have designed 2 differents dials on Illustrator
- one with a 26mm chapter ring (left on the pic below) ... both minutes hand and seconds hand will touch the red circle
- one with a 25.5mm chapter ring (right on the pic below) ... the 12mm minutes hand will touch the red circle and the seconds hand will touch the outer circle of the chapter ring

OPINIONS & HELP NEEDED :

I really prefer the first design with 26mm chapter ring ... but please feel free to tell your opinions.
If I go with the 26mm chapter ring design does any of you have a source for a gold handset with a 13mm minutes hand that could fit a DG2813.
I know that A2824-2 movements are considered more reliable than DG2813 movements but from my experience some DG2813s are almost workhorses and I would like to keep those builds as cheap as possible.
But there again, if I go with A2824-2 movements those watches could be upgraded in the future (ETA 2824-2 movements, correct engravings, etc ...).
So please give me your opinions, advices, links to gold handsets, etc ...

 

[kilowattore]

Although 2813 has closer bph compared to gen, I vote for 2824. Correct dial layout, correct hands, more reliable movement. These are very important points imho, and for just about 50 euro more.

 

[manodeoro]

Although 2813 has closer bph compared to gen, I vote for 2824. Correct dial layout, correct hands, more reliable movement. These are very important points imho, and for just about 50 euro more.

Coming from you a different answer would have really surprising and YES ... 50 € more is peanuts for the difference.

My main worry is that I've never modified the combined setting lever jumper on an 2824 (to keep 2 crown positions only) ... did you ever tried that mod ?

 

[369mafia]

This is my grail of the 6610 line if you are going to print a dial do a red depth!!
the hour hand also is longer - similar to the variation on the 6350 that was offered.

 

[369mafia]

This is a rolojack build. I have tried contacting him a few times in the past about his various builds ( 1019 and this 6610) to discuss a commission build but they went unanswered...

Not sure where he got the dial from probably vietnam the 369 is not correct to me ....to me the ideal of the 6610 is definitely in the thin font they used for the numerals.

 

[manodeoro]

Although 2813 has closer bph compared to gen, I vote for 2824. Correct dial layout, correct hands, more reliable movement. These are very important points imho, and for just about 50 euro more.

OPTION 1 :
Use an A2824 with correct dial layout and correct hands

OPTION 2 :
Use a DG2813 with low bhp

OPTION 3 :
Go the crazy way and try something "magic" ... if everything goes well of course
Just have a look at pic below, comparing ETA 2824-2 and ETA 2840

21.600bph, correct hands ... that could be a perfect choice
Problem is the ETA2840 mainplate don't have any holes for dial feet nor clamping screws ... plus some plastic parts I think

Nevertheless, I have an A2824-2 with a damaged date wheel somewhere in my drawers and I just bought a cheap ETA2840 on the bay so I will try the "magic" way.

I will try to mix parts using an old thread from chris3007 where he explain how he modded a 2824 to low beat : How to build a low beat Diver, or how to make a almost perfect rep a bit more perfect

That will be my first experience on mixing parts from different movements but I'll take my time and we'll see how it goes.

If I succeed I could even consider modding the oscillating weight just for fun

 

[manodeoro]

This is my grail of the 6610 line if you are going to print a dial do a red depth!!
the hour hand also is longer - similar to the variation on the 6350 that was offered.

You know what ?... I'll think about that

I have to check but I'm 70% certain that I've seen close-up pics on the next showing that the red depth was not printed OVER the black ink but BEFORE the black print ... sort of "negative relief red print"
If it proves to be true printing the red depth could be easier (though not really easy).

 

[369mafia]

You know what ?... I'll think about that

I have to check but I'm 70% certain that I've seen close-up pics on the next showing that the red depth was not printed OVER the black ink but BEFORE the black print ... sort of "negative relief red print"
If it proves to be true printing the red depth could be easier (though not really easy).

Yes If I recall in Barts Decal dial thread he attempted to print red on the decal and it didn't work. I think his success was to apply a thin coat of red on the dial plate before applying the decal.

I am wondering if you are using the decal transfer sheets instead of the slide on decals than a red depth could be added by those means as well?

 

[mascob1]

Hem...OK, if I understand correctly, I have to do the work quickly but properly. ..

 

[Mendota]

Amazing. I am watching this with high interest!!

When you guys do your decal dial printing with negative relief, true gilt dials how do you do it? Is the decal just thin, clear film in those areas so the color of the brass shows through, or is the decal actually somehow "cut away" in those areas so the actual bare brass surface shows through like the genuine dial does? This fascinates me and I am amazed at how much can be done at home.

 

[bobandshawn]

Interested as well...

 

[HootschiGootschi]

Why not use a 2824-2 with 21.600 bph? (I have one NEW).


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[kilowattore]

OPTION 1 :
Use an A2824 with correct dial layout and correct hands

OPTION 2 :
Use a DG2813 with low bhp

OPTION 3 :
Go the crazy way and try something "magic" ... if everything goes well of course
Just have a look at pic below, comparing ETA 2824-2 and ETA 2840

21.600bph, correct hands ... that could be a perfect choice
Problem is the ETA2840 mainplate don't have any holes for dial feet nor clamping screws ... plus some plastic parts I think

Nevertheless, I have an A2824-2 with a damaged date wheel somewhere in my drawers and I just bought a cheap ETA2840 on the bay so I will try the "magic" way.

I will try to mix parts using an old thread from chris3007 where he explain how he modded a 2824 to low beat : How to build a low beat Diver, or how to make a almost perfect rep a bit more perfect

That will be my first experience on mixing parts from different movements but I'll take my time and we'll see how it goes.

If I succeed I could even consider modding the oscillating weight just for fun

Never mixed and matched parts from different movements, but there are a bunch of compatible vintage ETA's, you might find one with the feature you like. As you already know Ranfft.de is the best place for this kind of research

 

[BabaNJ]

OPTION 1 :
Use an A2824 with correct dial layout and correct hands

OPTION 2 :
Use a DG2813 with low bhp

OPTION 3 :
Go the crazy way and try something "magic" ... if everything goes well of course
Just have a look at pic below, comparing ETA 2824-2 and ETA 2840

21.600bph, correct hands ... that could be a perfect choice
Problem is the ETA2840 mainplate don't have any holes for dial feet nor clamping screws ... plus some plastic parts I think

I put an eta 2840 in a franken 1002 explorer by sticking the dial on movement and making a modified/hybrid metal/plastic movement holder. It was easy to do on gen 1002 case but not sure if it can be done with you rep cases.


https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...-1002-explorer

 

[manodeoro]

Yes If I recall in Barts Decal dial thread he attempted to print red on the decal and it didn't work. I think his success was to apply a thin coat of red on the dial plate before applying the decal.

I am wondering if you are using the decal transfer sheets instead of the slide on decals than a red depth could be added by those means as well?

I've seen Bart's red-depth and I've done one myself ... same method but I used red nail varnish
The problem is that the red part is below the clear decal film so it can be visible or NOT depending from where the light comes from.

I will try the film-free laser decal from sunnyscopa ... I'm not certain it will work but at least I will try.
I have received the silk-print tools and inks I had ordered but I won't have time to test until August or September.

 

[manodeoro]

Hem...OK, if I understand correctly, I have to do the work quickly but properly. ..

No stress at all my friend I'm already posting about those watches but take the time you need ... real life and family first, watch hobby on spare time

 

[manodeoro]

Amazing. I am watching this with high interest!!

When you guys do your decal dial printing with negative relief, true gilt dials how do you do it? Is the decal just thin, clear film in those areas so the color of the brass shows through, or is the decal actually somehow "cut away" in those areas so the actual bare brass surface shows through like the genuine dial does? This fascinates me and I am amazed at how much can be done at home.

To be 100% honest gilt decal dials are not real negative gilt cause there is no real negative relief.
They look really good (or more than good when Bart works on it) but the gilt part is seen through the decal film only.

For those 6610 dials I will try the film-free product from sunnyscopa and, if everything works well, the gilt parts will show directly without any film over
So it should look better but there still won't be real negative relief as the laser printing is too thin.

With the silk-print tools I have ordered, received and STILL NOT tested the result will be a real negative relief as the ink will have a better thickness, not as thick as a when using a pad-print method but better nevertheless.
But I won't be abler to show anything until September or October ... not enough free time

 

[manodeoro]

Interested as well...

Thanks buddy ... though your avatar looks really sceptical

 

[manodeoro]

Why not use a 2824-2 with 21.600 bph? (I have one NEW).


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That is OPTION 4 (I already have a low-beat 2842) but I will still have to modify the combined setting lever spring to remove the "ghost second position" of the crown

OPTION 5 :
Use a complete ETA 2840, dismantle it for service AND, before servicing, drill the mainplate for the dial feets and drill=tap for the tab screws.
I really don't think I will try that option, except for my 5500 project which will receive a Gen 5500 dial (so no way I could cut the dial feets).

 

[manodeoro]

I put an eta 2840 in a franken 1002 explorer by sticking the dial on movement and making a modified/hybrid metal/plastic movement holder. It was easy to do on gen 1002 case but not sure if it can be done with you rep cases.


https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...-1002-explorer

I have seen that build and I wondered which method you used ... now I know
Its a possibility that I could use that method if I keep complete 2840 movements on those builds.
But I can't imagine cutting the feets of a Gen dial ... for now