JFK Vintage Tudor Date Sub questions...

[madmex]

Greetings and happy holidays fellow enthusiasts.

Background:
I've determined my grail watch is a 79090 or 79190 blue Tudor Sub. I saw the 79190 (triangles at 12, 6, 9) and tried it on in college. It was my first time noticing Tudor. What stood out was the iconic Submariner but in blue color... love at first sight. For a college student $1000 was crazy money back then.

I've modded a cartel rollie sub before, modeling the crown guards and swapping the crystal. I picked up a ZF Black Bay blue, regulated it to seconds a day and am now wanting to pursue the vintage sub I missed out on.

Questions:

1) JKF plexi/dial It seems from the images that the Tudor sub crystals from JKF may have the magnifier in the correct spot for ETA date window, but in the pics it looks like the date wheel is in the Rolex position... am I right or wrong?
2) Is the dial diameter compatible with an aftermarket 79090/79190 dial? It seemed the Tudor subs may have had a smaller dial the way the 14060 does... I am not sure but it would be a shame to buy a dial to find the original diameter is too small to fill the case.
3) the Trusty site advertises these JKF subs fit original bezel and crystals... is that true?


My plan, open to suggestions:
At first I will mod the CGs, swap the dial, reuse the hands unless I source some nice green lume hands say from a 16610 noob/JF. I am super meticulous about the hands. I prefer the NOS look to a well-worn/patinaed piece.

Next I might delve into a bezel or bezel insert. I really like the plastic pip in the JKF bezel inserts... the blue is way too bright unfortunately. Would love to source a better bezel insert.

I've read a bit about Ruby bezels...where do I find these? Does Ruby have blue bezels or where can one get a nice blue bezel insert with a PIP that looks good.

Thank you everyone in advance for reading this and for any suggestions you might have.

Regards!

 

[mclarendude]

This was my build. VN dial.

The date window is actually a bit to the right and up, maybe less than 1mm each way.

Stock Cartels have a DWO.

In my pics they look centered because of how I positioned the watch.

Stock

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tribal]

Gen Tudor Subs etc. use a ETA movement without an Dateoverlay. That's the reason why the datewindow is positioned more to the right.

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[madmex]

This was my build. VN dial.

The date window is actually a bit to the right and up, maybe less than 1mm each way.

Stock Cartels have a DWO.

In my pics they look centered because of how I positioned the watch.

Stock

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you, mclarendude, that's a nice build. I definitely like the black version a lot, and if I was unable to get a blue version I would go black.

I wish the blue in the cartel iterations wasn't so far off. What are some recommended sources for VN dials as I'm wondering if they have blue 79090? Yuki has one but it looks a bit different in color.

 

[madmex]

Gen Tudor Subs etc. use a ETA movement without an Dateoverlay. That's the reason why the datewindow is positioned more to the right.

Gesendet von meinem Mi MIX 2S mit Tapatalk

Thanks, tribal. That's exactly what I wanted to know, whether the cartel was using the original ETA position for both the crystal cyclop and the aperture in the dial. Now I know the dial window is off, and perhaps the cyclops is off as well.

 

[J!m1]

79090 uses the 25-282c crystal. I don’t have data on the 79190 crystal. I have no idea if the rep is the same dimensions. Clarks sells a crystal. Don’t forget the gasket.

Tudor did use the ETA movement but on the older (2784) 9411 it was a silver base with black serif numerals. Very hard to source. The later watch, such as you seek, I do believe was white background with black numerals but I think the serifs were gone. I think it was a 2824 as well with higher beat. That’s not one I have worked on so I’m not as certain as the 9411.

 

[madmex]

79090 uses the 25-282c crystal. I don’t have data on the 79190 crystal. I have no idea if the rep is the same dimensions. Clarks sells a crystal. Don’t forget the gasket.

Hi Jim1,

Thanks for your very informative reply. I did not know that the 79090 had a sapphire crystal, but that is in line with what I remember.

The cartel versions seem to come with a top hat plexiglass--which I didn't know is more of a fantasy and the blue dial color is also fantasy. I am not sure what diameter or what crystal spec the cartel has but it is likely to be their Rolex case equivalent. Another possibility would be to get a TC style case, drill lug holes, and use a non cyclops crystal, add the cyclops in the correct ETA location, and find a blue bezel insert and an expensive 79090/79190 dial which Yuki has although not sure the color looks correct. BP has a fantasy 16610 that is blue but it comes with the A3135... which I'd need to swap out for a 2824, kind of a realistic swap given that's what Tudor did with the Subs.

One issue is the 79090 dial is 26mm in diameter whereas the 16610 is at least 27mm so I am not sure if it would fill the aperture or look correct. A rep 14060 case, which doesn't exist would be great. Any further suggestions much appreciated. This seems like a very sloppy project.

Also I haven't seen Clark to be active on eBay anymore or perhaps he has another site I am unaware of (fingers crossed).

Regards

 

[J!m1]

I am not sure the 16610 case shares dimensions with the 79090 (dial diameters may be different?). But if it does, a much better (16610) case can be had from StarTime supply. That will need a movement ring to compensate for the movement diameter change for sure. Lug holes are already drilled on it too.

I am more inclined to think the 5513 case would be the one to get, but someone else may know better. And I was able to confirm movement is the 2824-2; early date wheels were black on white WITH serifs and later ones are WITHOUT serifs.

And, I do see 79090 watches with acrylic crystals. In fact, all I see on eBay right now have acrylic. Maybe they changed mid-production? I'm not sure- again this is not a model i have first-hand experience with. The crystal data is from the Rolex data sheet- perhaps it is not perfect... But in that case, a 5513 case with a 125 acrylic crystal would be the hot ticket I think.

And the 79090 did come in blue, but they are not as prevalent as the black dial ones. Less popular than the "snowflake" models (with square markers, as above), so you might be able to score a gen dial for reasonable money. If so, I highly encourage you to stretch the budget to get a gen dial. Looks like complete watches are around 8-9 grand at the moment.

EDIT: Acrylic crystal appears to be the 25-144 crystal. I think the Rolex info I have is bad for this model (but that sapphire crystal may fit??)

 

[madmex]

Hey J!m1, thank you again for outdoing yourself with the gold mine of info. It is invaluable and appreciated. I've since found both crystals in acrylic 25-144 and sapphire 25-282c and I am curious if they indeed are interchangeable. My initial idea was to start with a cartel JKF and go from there, I wonder if those fit the same crystals. Where are good places to look for a decent 5513 case? I'll keep an eye out for gen dials but not sure what reasonable pricing would be but let's see what happens-- I like the thought.

 

[Rocla]

mclarendude : very nice work. What is VN dial, please ?
I’m modding with a friend a JKF no date snowflake sub and I’m looking for a decent black dial. Not easy to find... For the moment the one I prefer is the Helenarou one but your VN looks pretty ! So what « VN » does it means ?
Thanks for help.

 

[mclarendude]

mclarendude : very nice work. What is VN dial, please ?
I’m modding with a friend a JKF no date snowflake sub and I’m looking for a decent black dial. Not easy to find... For the moment the one I prefer is the Helenarou one but your VN looks pretty ! So what « VN » does it means ?
Thanks for help.

It is a Vietnam made dial. VN for Vietnam.

 

[Rocla]

Thanks for the answer.

 

[Rocla]

Thanks for the answer.

 

[papabear244]

Guys I'm on the same boat, so I am posting here to keep myself in the loop. Originally going for a blue sub, but it looks like it's a more trickier build and the parts are harder to find so I will be saving that for later and make the black one first.

 

[madmex]

Here are some updates to the project so far. I did some very light crown guard work, replaced crystal, dial, date wheel, bezel assembly, bezel insert, reused the JKF lume pip and bracelet.


Wondering if there's any recommendations for hands. I particularly like the pointy tapered seconds hand and the lume dot high up toward the post, flat metal vs polished softened. It has the factory JKF hands which have a patina that the Yuki dial does not.

I've drilled the lug holes before for the 2mm spring bars but I would like to confirm (or remember) what the drill bit size to use is.

also wondering about a black rubber gasket that is in a groove around the outer wall of the rehaut, how to source another. Is it a JKF thing or gen?
The case is engraved 1680.

I removed two links but am having difficulty closing the folded metal back up. I will upgrade the bracelet I hope I can figure out how to split the oyster link as I have an old TC sub bracelet with hollow middle links that would be perfect, if I can only remove the SELs.

 

[J!m1]

Later 1680’s and newer watches added an o-ring to the crystal retainer to reduce the crevice corrosion. You need to measure the ID and cross section of the original and try to match it up. The gen part may not fit as I’ve learned with those as well as case back gaskets...

I THINK the lug drill is 1.6mm for the spring bars but it’s been years since I bought the drills (do not skimp on drill quality!) or drilled lug holes.

 

[mrbrown0916]

Where did you source that dial? Appears to be a darker blue than the ones JKF typically provides, but i could be wrong...it’s been a while since i looked at stock JKF Tudor subs.,.,,.

 

[Spoons]

Where did you source that dial? Appears to be a darker blue than the ones JKF typically provides, but i could be wrong...it’s been a while since i looked at stock JKF Tudor subs.,.,,.

He mentioned it was a yuki dial, so I'm guessing it is this one: https://www.yukiwatch.com/catalog/item/6785693/10274864.htm

 

[mrbrown0916]

He mentioned it was a yuki dial, so I'm guessing it is this one: https://www.yukiwatch.com/catalog/item/6785693/10274864.htm

Ahh shoot, i clearly wasn’t paying attention too well.
Thanks!

 

[madmex]

Where did you source that dial? Appears to be a darker blue than the ones JKF typically provides, but i could be wrong...it’s been a while since i looked at stock JKF Tudor subs.,.,,.

Spoons is correct. The dial is a Yuki and it has the date opening in the standard ETA position.