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  • Elise
    started a topic First purchase questions

    First purchase questions

    Apologizes in advance if I’m going to ask already discussed questions, I’m only new to this and don’t want to make any mistakes.

    I am looking to purchase a 116610 LN (initially I wanted a no date sub but learned there aren’t any as far as ARF and v9 are concerned). My budget is around 500€ (can go higher but not by a large stretch).

    So I am trying to decide between the ARF 1:1 116610 LN 904L 3135 and the Noob v9.

    What I’m looking for is a rep that is the closest to 1:1 that functions, feels, looks as per original straight out of the box (am I asking too much?) without any modding needed as I don’t plan to do any.

    Thanks any advice would be greatly appreciated


  • ShafB
    replied
    Slowly making my way through the noob threads - so thanks for the write up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Engelbart
    replied
    Originally posted by sfgerl View Post

    Hi Elise,

    As a recent first-time purchaser, I am going to try and break this down for you... So sit down with a cuppa' and read:

    The way I understand it, for the model you are looking for, there are really two watch "companies" that make the closest rep - Noob and ARF. Both of course are in China and to call them "factories" is stretching it - remember that it is utterly illegal in China to make rep watches and to sell them. Think of the "factory" as being a bunch of guys hiding out from the authorities in a dirty, parts-strewn garage; they obtain different parts from others (also making said parts in a dirty garage), then assemble everything into a watch. We are not talking about a nice, clean, "factory" in the sense of a legal, clean, swiss watch-type manufactory here. Get the picture? Then, they sell these watches to a middleman/woman, AKA a "TD" (or Trusted Dealer), who then illegally sells them to you. There is a lot of "hush hush" about the whole operation, since if the sellers get raided by the Chinese police, it's a hefty fine and prison.

    A good TD does good "QC" or Quality Control, meaning that they have the connection to the "factories" (they may in fact be family members, who knows!), and are able to check each watch one by one, and pick out the choicest examples. The TDs on the RWI list are sellers that other buyers have come to trust as ones safe to send money to, have demonstrated good email correspondence with the buyer, and mail the watches as promised and in a reasonable amount of time. This is an illegal operation (but not for you as a buyer, though), so having a TD is VERY important so you do not get scammed. You can find the list of TDs on the forum.

    Both Noob and ARF make a good 116610 LN rep. As the first poster said, there are some differences between the two, and asking 100 people will get you 100 different answers. Each version has their own plusses and minuses. I suggest you take a day or two and search 116610 LN Noob vs. ARF or something along those lines, look at the photos, read the comments, and come to some sort of a decision. I can tell you this - many on the forum are SUPER picky and OCD (it is a hobby they love, after all) about the tiny details like the rehaut (the metal rim between the dial and the bezel that has "ROLEX ROLEX ROLEX...), the dial fonts, the hands, the date window, etc. I got caught up in that as well when I was looking for the best 116610 LV (the green version, AKA the "hulk"). In the end, I can assure you that once it is on your wrist, these details will be virtually unrecognizable to anyone who does not check the watch off of your wrist and with a loupe! The people on the forum will not be the ones looking at your watch; it is true many of them can spot the "tell" (that it is a rep watch) from a foot away - but you are talking about 99.9% of the public, most of who only know that the brand Rolex exists, and that's it. Just 2 days ago at work, a female co-worker of mine, and a male patient (both wearing a Rolex) both commented on my nice taste in watches! They have no clue that mine is a rep - I simply smiled and said "thanks!" No one asked my to take it off my wrist or examined it with a loupe! And, I did not examine theirs - which for all I know, were also reps!!


    The "BK" person, and "Mary" that the other posters mentioned are, I believe, TDs who reputedly check the watches especially carefully, and cherry-pick the best ones, in some cases (BK) perhaps doing minor modifications and charging a premium (over base price) to do so. I cannot speak to either of these. I can tell you I used Ryan at intime, and Angus at Puretime, both with excellent results. The watches they chose for me are super, and I did not pay a premium.

    Once you decide which TD to use, you will place an order and send them payment. Payment is another issue in itself, the TDs as a rule do not take Paypal; some take VISA/MC (I did this, but be aware there may be issues with your CC company getting the charge to go through, and you will pay additional fees to the CC company to send the funds to China!), they often take wire transfers, Western Union and most take cryptocurrency (I never used Bitcoin and did not feel like getting involved with that.). If they ask you to not mention why the funds are being sent in the correspondence process, it is because they are selling an illegal product and do not want to draw attention! Admittedly, it feels weird to send lots of money off to some person in China - the first time, it really feels like a leap of faith!

    After THAT, once the watch is available from the "factory", you will receive "QC" pictures. These are photos asking you to do your own quality control and either agree that it is satisfactory (you "greenlight" or GL the watch), or disgree ("redlight" or RL) it. If you want additional photos, you can certainly ask for them, and a good TD will send them to you within a day or so. You then have to decide if you want that watch, or no. If you don't like it, and RL the watch, keep in mind that there is no guarantee that the next one they pick will be any better, and it may look worse! If you are unreasonably picky about the tiniest of details, and turn down watch after watch, the TD may flag you as a PIA and not sell to you again. I honestly think they want to avoid this as well, and also want to maintain their TD status, so are pretty good about picking out a good watch from the very start.

    This is important: PLEASE DO READ the forum rules on posting the QC photos. You are NOT ALLOWED to post the photos and ask everyone to greenlight the watch for you!

    Once you have read more about the details of the watch, if you have a specific question about the watch in the photo , you CAN post that question and ask it. Sometimes, some forum members may simply say "It looks great!", "that's a nice watch!", or "that's a nice example!" which you can then take as a clue that it looks good enough to GL. But in the end, the decision is yours alone to make.

    Keep in mind that overall, you are getting a watch that has been made and sold illegally - but due to the detail and diligence of the Chinese manufacturing processes, one that looks REMARKABLY LIKE the genuine article!!! You are paying $300 - 400 for a watch that to all intents and purposes, looks and feels very, very close to a watch that costs $8000 - 10,000 in the genuine form.

    So - will the watch work? Maybe, maybe not... There is NO GUARANTEE! My VRF MAX (it's a Hulk and they make a nice Hulk) keeps excellent time! My ARF version runs slow, and the movement probably needs cleaning - or whatever - done to it.

    As a general way of thinking about these, the Noob watches come with a 31xx movement, which is the size of the genuine Rolex movement. Because the case of the Noob is specifically made for that movement, the Noob version is amenable to "frankening", which means modifying the watch with genuine Rolex bits in the attempt to more closely replicate a genuine Rolex. The ARF version historically has come only with the 28xx movement, and as such, the case size will NOT accommodate some of the genuine Rolex parts should you decide to franken the watch.
    (NB: There was a version of 116610 LN by ARF just released last month, with the 31xx movement, you can read the reviews about that watch if you search the forum).

    The difference is, in general, the 28xx movements, although NOT like the genuine Rolex movement, are known for being highly reliable, and if there is the need to replace or repair the movement, the parts are very available and cheap. The 31xx movement IS like the genuine Rolex, but is more unreliable, and is definitely more expensive to replace or repair. No one is going to know which movement is in your watch unless they take the back off of the watch!

    I wanted a watch that looked great, but was more reliable and cheap to repair. I was not planning to modify the watch apart from buying a better (in my case, a genuine) crystal - so both of my watches have the 28xx movement.

    I hope this helps, and that you have benefited from what I have learned by all my reading in the past 6 weeks... I cannot overemphasize the importance of reading and re-reading the posts on any specific question you have, but of course there are many helpful members on the forum who will often be more than happy to help.

    Good luck!













    what a great write-up and a great, concrete example for what to look for when considering which TD to pick! Thank you for this!

    Leave a comment:


  • Tobel
    replied
    Originally posted by Milan8161 View Post
    Nicely written. Very helpful. Kudos!
    That was 3 years ago, you may want to look at more recent threads to make your opinion

    Leave a comment:


  • Milan8161
    replied
    Nicely written. Very helpful. Kudos!

    Leave a comment:


  • Vvvlllooo
    replied
    Originally posted by sfgerl View Post

    Hi Elise,

    As a recent first-time purchaser, I am going to try and break this down for you... So sit down with a cuppa' and read:

    The way I understand it, for the model you are looking for, there are really two watch "companies" that make the closest rep - Noob and ARF. Both of course are in China and to call them "factories" is stretching it - remember that it is utterly illegal in China to make rep watches and to sell them. Think of the "factory" as being a bunch of guys hiding out from the authorities in a dirty, parts-strewn garage; they obtain different parts from others (also making said parts in a dirty garage), then assemble everything into a watch. We are not talking about a nice, clean, "factory" in the sense of a legal, clean, swiss watch-type manufactory here. Get the picture? Then, they sell these watches to a middleman/woman, AKA a "TD" (or Trusted Dealer), who then illegally sells them to you. There is a lot of "hush hush" about the whole operation, since if the sellers get raided by the Chinese police, it's a hefty fine and prison.

    A good TD does good "QC" or Quality Control, meaning that they have the connection to the "factories" (they may in fact be family members, who knows!), and are able to check each watch one by one, and pick out the choicest examples. The TDs on the RWI list are sellers that other buyers have come to trust as ones safe to send money to, have demonstrated good email correspondence with the buyer, and mail the watches as promised and in a reasonable amount of time. This is an illegal operation (but not for you as a buyer, though), so having a TD is VERY important so you do not get scammed. You can find the list of TDs on the forum.

    Both Noob and ARF make a good 116610 LN rep. As the first poster said, there are some differences between the two, and asking 100 people will get you 100 different answers. Each version has their own plusses and minuses. I suggest you take a day or two and search 116610 LN Noob vs. ARF or something along those lines, look at the photos, read the comments, and come to some sort of a decision. I can tell you this - many on the forum are SUPER picky and OCD (it is a hobby they love, after all) about the tiny details like the rehaut (the metal rim between the dial and the bezel that has "ROLEX ROLEX ROLEX...), the dial fonts, the hands, the date window, etc. I got caught up in that as well when I was looking for the best 116610 LV (the green version, AKA the "hulk"). In the end, I can assure you that once it is on your wrist, these details will be virtually unrecognizable to anyone who does not check the watch off of your wrist and with a loupe! The people on the forum will not be the ones looking at your watch; it is true many of them can spot the "tell" (that it is a rep watch) from a foot away - but you are talking about 99.9% of the public, most of who only know that the brand Rolex exists, and that's it. Just 2 days ago at work, a female co-worker of mine, and a male patient (both wearing a Rolex) both commented on my nice taste in watches! They have no clue that mine is a rep - I simply smiled and said "thanks!" No one asked my to take it off my wrist or examined it with a loupe! And, I did not examine theirs - which for all I know, were also reps!!


    The "BK" person, and "Mary" that the other posters mentioned are, I believe, TDs who reputedly check the watches especially carefully, and cherry-pick the best ones, in some cases (BK) perhaps doing minor modifications and charging a premium (over base price) to do so. I cannot speak to either of these. I can tell you I used Ryan at intime, and Angus at Puretime, both with excellent results. The watches they chose for me are super, and I did not pay a premium.

    Once you decide which TD to use, you will place an order and send them payment. Payment is another issue in itself, the TDs as a rule do not take Paypal; some take VISA/MC (I did this, but be aware there may be issues with your CC company getting the charge to go through, and you will pay additional fees to the CC company to send the funds to China!), they often take wire transfers, Western Union and most take cryptocurrency (I never used Bitcoin and did not feel like getting involved with that.). If they ask you to not mention why the funds are being sent in the correspondence process, it is because they are selling an illegal product and do not want to draw attention! Admittedly, it feels weird to send lots of money off to some person in China - the first time, it really feels like a leap of faith!

    After THAT, once the watch is available from the "factory", you will receive "QC" pictures. These are photos asking you to do your own quality control and either agree that it is satisfactory (you "greenlight" or GL the watch), or disgree ("redlight" or RL) it. If you want additional photos, you can certainly ask for them, and a good TD will send them to you within a day or so. You then have to decide if you want that watch, or no. If you don't like it, and RL the watch, keep in mind that there is no guarantee that the next one they pick will be any better, and it may look worse! If you are unreasonably picky about the tiniest of details, and turn down watch after watch, the TD may flag you as a PIA and not sell to you again. I honestly think they want to avoid this as well, and also want to maintain their TD status, so are pretty good about picking out a good watch from the very start.

    This is important: PLEASE DO READ the forum rules on posting the QC photos. You are NOT ALLOWED to post the photos and ask everyone to greenlight the watch for you!

    Once you have read more about the details of the watch, if you have a specific question about the watch in the photo , you CAN post that question and ask it. Sometimes, some forum members may simply say "It looks great!", "that's a nice watch!", or "that's a nice example!" which you can then take as a clue that it looks good enough to GL. But in the end, the decision is yours alone to make.

    Keep in mind that overall, you are getting a watch that has been made and sold illegally - but due to the detail and diligence of the Chinese manufacturing processes, one that looks REMARKABLY LIKE the genuine article!!! You are paying $300 - 400 for a watch that to all intents and purposes, looks and feels very, very close to a watch that costs $8000 - 10,000 in the genuine form.

    So - will the watch work? Maybe, maybe not... There is NO GUARANTEE! My VRF MAX (it's a Hulk and they make a nice Hulk) keeps excellent time! My ARF version runs slow, and the movement probably needs cleaning - or whatever - done to it.

    As a general way of thinking about these, the Noob watches come with a 31xx movement, which is the size of the genuine Rolex movement. Because the case of the Noob is specifically made for that movement, the Noob version is amenable to "frankening", which means modifying the watch with genuine Rolex bits in the attempt to more closely replicate a genuine Rolex. The ARF version historically has come only with the 28xx movement, and as such, the case size will NOT accommodate some of the genuine Rolex parts should you decide to franken the watch.
    (NB: There was a version of 116610 LN by ARF just released last month, with the 31xx movement, you can read the reviews about that watch if you search the forum).

    The difference is, in general, the 28xx movements, although NOT like the genuine Rolex movement, are known for being highly reliable, and if there is the need to replace or repair the movement, the parts are very available and cheap. The 31xx movement IS like the genuine Rolex, but is more unreliable, and is definitely more expensive to replace or repair. No one is going to know which movement is in your watch unless they take the back off of the watch!

    I wanted a watch that looked great, but was more reliable and cheap to repair. I was not planning to modify the watch apart from buying a better (in my case, a genuine) crystal - so both of my watches have the 28xx movement.

    I hope this helps, and that you have benefited from what I have learned by all my reading in the past 6 weeks... I cannot overemphasize the importance of reading and re-reading the posts on any specific question you have, but of course there are many helpful members on the forum who will often be more than happy to help.

    Good luck!













    Spot on..should sticky this reply and ask all new forum members to read this comment

    Leave a comment:


  • Maru
    replied
    Another tidbit of advice. PATIENCE!

    payment may take a few days to clear, waiting on QC pics may take a few more days, receiving tracking may take a few more days. Then the time it takes to receive a package from China. Sometimes it will take a few extra days to clear customs. This isn't Amazon, so be patient...

    Leave a comment:


  • trailboss99
    replied
    Originally posted by preppyr6 View Post
    Both are great reps...and both excel at certain aspects. Your best bet is to read through this subforum for the reviews, pics, and member impressions. If you ask "which one should I get" you're going to get answers ranging from "ARF" to "Noob" to "whichever makes you feel happiest".

    Were a bunch of randos on an internet chatboard...best not to ask us how to spend your money, youre better off reading up and looking at this subforum (which has years of info on the watches youre looking at) and the Trusted Dealer section to figure out 1) what TDs meet your purchasing needs and 2) what to expect when buying your reps

    Also worth noting, since mishaps happen so often, read the rules on RWI (you can find them in the new member section). Theres certain rules about posting QC pics that you're going to want to know, and it will also help you understand what is normal or not when it comes to accepting/rejecting QCs.
    Well said sir.

    Leave a comment:


  • tonightsnotit
    replied
    Originally posted by sfgerl View Post

    I'm truly so glad that you find it helpful!! I know that I spent a lot of time just trying to decipher the abbreviations used - ha! There is a LOT of information on these forums, but putting it all together is the hard part. Hang in there!
    It felt like I had a few puzzles that I wasn't sure where it needed to go and then reading your post, all the puzzles fit together haha. I actually ended up emailing intime last night inquiring about shipping. I'm just about ready to pull the trigger!! Just waiting on their reply to my email.

    Leave a comment:


  • sfgerl
    replied
    Originally posted by tonightsnotit View Post

    First timer here also and just wanted to say thanks for that write up/post!! I've been reading and researching between RWI and reddit for the past month or two just to understand things. Your post actually clarified and answered some of the questions I had.

    So, I'm replying just to say thanks!
    I'm truly so glad that you find it helpful!! I know that I spent a lot of time just trying to decipher the abbreviations used - ha! There is a LOT of information on these forums, but putting it all together is the hard part. Hang in there!

    Leave a comment:


  • tonightsnotit
    replied
    Originally posted by sfgerl View Post

    Hi Elise,

    As a recent first-time purchaser, I am going to try and break this down for you... So sit down with a cuppa' and read:

    The way I understand it, for the model you are looking for, there are really two watch "companies" that make the closest rep - Noob and ARF. Both of course are in China and to call them "factories" is stretching it - remember that it is utterly illegal in China to make rep watches and to sell them. Think of the "factory" as being a bunch of guys hiding out from the authorities in a dirty, parts-strewn garage; they obtain different parts from others (also making said parts in a dirty garage), then assemble everything into a watch. We are not talking about a nice, clean, "factory" in the sense of a legal, clean, swiss watch-type manufactory here. Get the picture? Then, they sell these watches to a middleman/woman, AKA a "TD" (or Trusted Dealer), who then illegally sells them to you. There is a lot of "hush hush" about the whole operation, since if the sellers get raided by the Chinese police, it's a hefty fine and prison.

    A good TD does good "QC" or Quality Control, meaning that they have the connection to the "factories" (they may in fact be family members, who knows!), and are able to check each watch one by one, and pick out the choicest examples. The TDs on the RWI list are sellers that other buyers have come to trust as ones safe to send money to, have demonstrated good email correspondence with the buyer, and mail the watches as promised and in a reasonable amount of time. This is an illegal operation (but not for you as a buyer, though), so having a TD is VERY important so you do not get scammed. You can find the list of TDs on the forum.

    Both Noob and ARF make a good 116610 LN rep. As the first poster said, there are some differences between the two, and asking 100 people will get you 100 different answers. Each version has their own plusses and minuses. I suggest you take a day or two and search 116610 LN Noob vs. ARF or something along those lines, look at the photos, read the comments, and come to some sort of a decision. I can tell you this - many on the forum are SUPER picky and OCD (it is a hobby they love, after all) about the tiny details like the rehaut (the metal rim between the dial and the bezel that has "ROLEX ROLEX ROLEX...), the dial fonts, the hands, the date window, etc. I got caught up in that as well when I was looking for the best 116610 LV (the green version, AKA the "hulk"). In the end, I can assure you that once it is on your wrist, these details will be virtually unrecognizable to anyone who does not check the watch off of your wrist and with a loupe! The people on the forum will not be the ones looking at your watch; it is true many of them can spot the "tell" (that it is a rep watch) from a foot away - but you are talking about 99.9% of the public, most of who only know that the brand Rolex exists, and that's it. Just 2 days ago at work, a female co-worker of mine, and a male patient (both wearing a Rolex) both commented on my nice taste in watches! They have no clue that mine is a rep - I simply smiled and said "thanks!" No one asked my to take it off my wrist or examined it with a loupe! And, I did not examine theirs - which for all I know, were also reps!!


    The "BK" person, and "Mary" that the other posters mentioned are, I believe, TDs who reputedly check the watches especially carefully, and cherry-pick the best ones, in some cases (BK) perhaps doing minor modifications and charging a premium (over base price) to do so. I cannot speak to either of these. I can tell you I used Ryan at intime, and Angus at Puretime, both with excellent results. The watches they chose for me are super, and I did not pay a premium.

    Once you decide which TD to use, you will place an order and send them payment. Payment is another issue in itself, the TDs as a rule do not take Paypal; some take VISA/MC (I did this, but be aware there may be issues with your CC company getting the charge to go through, and you will pay additional fees to the CC company to send the funds to China!), they often take wire transfers, Western Union and most take cryptocurrency (I never used Bitcoin and did not feel like getting involved with that.). If they ask you to not mention why the funds are being sent in the correspondence process, it is because they are selling an illegal product and do not want to draw attention! Admittedly, it feels weird to send lots of money off to some person in China - the first time, it really feels like a leap of faith!

    After THAT, once the watch is available from the "factory", you will receive "QC" pictures. These are photos asking you to do your own quality control and either agree that it is satisfactory (you "greenlight" or GL the watch), or disgree ("redlight" or RL) it. If you want additional photos, you can certainly ask for them, and a good TD will send them to you within a day or so. You then have to decide if you want that watch, or no. If you don't like it, and RL the watch, keep in mind that there is no guarantee that the next one they pick will be any better, and it may look worse! If you are unreasonably picky about the tiniest of details, and turn down watch after watch, the TD may flag you as a PIA and not sell to you again. I honestly think they want to avoid this as well, and also want to maintain their TD status, so are pretty good about picking out a good watch from the very start.

    This is important: PLEASE DO READ the forum rules on posting the QC photos. You are NOT ALLOWED to post the photos and ask everyone to greenlight the watch for you!

    Once you have read more about the details of the watch, if you have a specific question about the watch in the photo , you CAN post that question and ask it. Sometimes, some forum members may simply say "It looks great!", "that's a nice watch!", or "that's a nice example!" which you can then take as a clue that it looks good enough to GL. But in the end, the decision is yours alone to make.

    Keep in mind that overall, you are getting a watch that has been made and sold illegally - but due to the detail and diligence of the Chinese manufacturing processes, one that looks REMARKABLY LIKE the genuine article!!! You are paying $300 - 400 for a watch that to all intents and purposes, looks and feels very, very close to a watch that costs $8000 - 10,000 in the genuine form.

    So - will the watch work? Maybe, maybe not... There is NO GUARANTEE! My VRF MAX (it's a Hulk and they make a nice Hulk) keeps excellent time! My ARF version runs slow, and the movement probably needs cleaning - or whatever - done to it.

    As a general way of thinking about these, the Noob watches come with a 31xx movement, which is the size of the genuine Rolex movement. Because the case of the Noob is specifically made for that movement, the Noob version is amenable to "frankening", which means modifying the watch with genuine Rolex bits in the attempt to more closely replicate a genuine Rolex. The ARF version historically has come only with the 28xx movement, and as such, the case size will NOT accommodate some of the genuine Rolex parts should you decide to franken the watch.
    (NB: There was a version of 116610 LN by ARF just released last month, with the 31xx movement, you can read the reviews about that watch if you search the forum).

    The difference is, in general, the 28xx movements, although NOT like the genuine Rolex movement, are known for being highly reliable, and if there is the need to replace or repair the movement, the parts are very available and cheap. The 31xx movement IS like the genuine Rolex, but is more unreliable, and is definitely more expensive to replace or repair. No one is going to know which movement is in your watch unless they take the back off of the watch!

    I wanted a watch that looked great, but was more reliable and cheap to repair. I was not planning to modify the watch apart from buying a better (in my case, a genuine) crystal - so both of my watches have the 28xx movement.

    I hope this helps, and that you have benefited from what I have learned by all my reading in the past 6 weeks... I cannot overemphasize the importance of reading and re-reading the posts on any specific question you have, but of course there are many helpful members on the forum who will often be more than happy to help.

    Good luck!
    First timer here also and just wanted to say thanks for that write up/post!! I've been reading and researching between RWI and reddit for the past month or two just to understand things. Your post actually clarified and answered some of the questions I had.

    So, I'm replying just to say thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • KJ2020
    replied
    Buy either the ARF 2824 or the Noob V9 2836 with complete confidence and don't look back. Pick a TD here, they will all take care of you.

    Excellent info in this thread, well done friends!
    Last edited by KJ2020; 11-12-18, 08:08.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ruprekt
    replied
    Lots of good information there. But to say BK only does minor mods and charges a premium is way wrong. Show me a dealer that mods a watch to any degree? They send the watch back to get another one hoping the next watch is better.
    BK’s mods:

    Movement: Swiss ETA 2836-2
    Mods:
    - reinstall DWO for better date positions (top to bottom)
    - reinstall crystal to line up cyclops to date window
    - line up the dial to the rehaut engraving by best-fit effort, i.e. line up the 12 o'clock marker to the engraved Rolex coronet on the rehaut
    - reinstall bezel insert to line it up with the dial
    - tighten bezel => no rocking bezel
    - set proper crown stem length. Noobfactory sometimes make it too long which puts pressure on the movement and can diminish WR
    - reduce the crystal height above bezel insert. Stock crystal can be lowered by shortening the crystal gasket
    - replace the 2 movement ring tabs with Swiss made ones which better secure the movement in place
    - replac
    e the 2 movement ring screws with high quality ones which break less
    - optional (extra $38): swap in Clark crystal for even lower crystal height. Note: Clark doesn't have LEC at 6. But that's not necessarily a bad thing because gen's LEC is practically invisible and Noob's LEC is still too loud.

    All this plus the guarantee of a real new eta movement, not a clone or used movement that has happened so often.
    Choose who you like to buy from. My point get started with something you’ll be happy with and will last you a long time. You’re willing to spend good money, spend it wisely.

    Leave a comment:


  • sfgerl
    replied
    Originally posted by Elise View Post

    Sorry I am very new to all of this and still trying to figure out what all of that means. Is that essentially a noob v9 modded by someone? What is QC?
    Hi Elise,

    As a recent first-time purchaser, I am going to try and break this down for you... So sit down with a cuppa' and read:

    The way I understand it, for the model you are looking for, there are really two watch "companies" that make the closest rep - Noob and ARF. Both of course are in China and to call them "factories" is stretching it - remember that it is utterly illegal in China to make rep watches and to sell them. Think of the "factory" as being a bunch of guys hiding out from the authorities in a dirty, parts-strewn garage; they obtain different parts from others (also making said parts in a dirty garage), then assemble everything into a watch. We are not talking about a nice, clean, "factory" in the sense of a legal, clean, swiss watch-type manufactory here. Get the picture? Then, they sell these watches to a middleman/woman, AKA a "TD" (or Trusted Dealer), who then illegally sells them to you. There is a lot of "hush hush" about the whole operation, since if the sellers get raided by the Chinese police, it's a hefty fine and prison.

    A good TD does good "QC" or Quality Control, meaning that they have the connection to the "factories" (they may in fact be family members, who knows!), and are able to check each watch one by one, and pick out the choicest examples. The TDs on the RWI list are sellers that other buyers have come to trust as ones safe to send money to, have demonstrated good email correspondence with the buyer, and mail the watches as promised and in a reasonable amount of time. This is an illegal operation (but not for you as a buyer, though), so having a TD is VERY important so you do not get scammed. You can find the list of TDs on the forum.

    Both Noob and ARF make a good 116610 LN rep. As the first poster said, there are some differences between the two, and asking 100 people will get you 100 different answers. Each version has their own plusses and minuses. I suggest you take a day or two and search 116610 LN Noob vs. ARF or something along those lines, look at the photos, read the comments, and come to some sort of a decision. I can tell you this - many on the forum are SUPER picky and OCD (it is a hobby they love, after all) about the tiny details like the rehaut (the metal rim between the dial and the bezel that has "ROLEX ROLEX ROLEX...), the dial fonts, the hands, the date window, etc. I got caught up in that as well when I was looking for the best 116610 LV (the green version, AKA the "hulk"). In the end, I can assure you that once it is on your wrist, these details will be virtually unrecognizable to anyone who does not check the watch off of your wrist and with a loupe! The people on the forum will not be the ones looking at your watch; it is true many of them can spot the "tell" (that it is a rep watch) from a foot away - but you are talking about 99.9% of the public, most of who only know that the brand Rolex exists, and that's it. Just 2 days ago at work, a female co-worker of mine, and a male patient (both wearing a Rolex) both commented on my nice taste in watches! They have no clue that mine is a rep - I simply smiled and said "thanks!" No one asked my to take it off my wrist or examined it with a loupe! And, I did not examine theirs - which for all I know, were also reps!!


    The "BK" person, and "Mary" that the other posters mentioned are, I believe, TDs who reputedly check the watches especially carefully, and cherry-pick the best ones, in some cases (BK) perhaps doing minor modifications and charging a premium (over base price) to do so. I cannot speak to either of these. I can tell you I used Ryan at intime, and Angus at Puretime, both with excellent results. The watches they chose for me are super, and I did not pay a premium.

    Once you decide which TD to use, you will place an order and send them payment. Payment is another issue in itself, the TDs as a rule do not take Paypal; some take VISA/MC (I did this, but be aware there may be issues with your CC company getting the charge to go through, and you will pay additional fees to the CC company to send the funds to China!), they often take wire transfers, Western Union and most take cryptocurrency (I never used Bitcoin and did not feel like getting involved with that.). If they ask you to not mention why the funds are being sent in the correspondence process, it is because they are selling an illegal product and do not want to draw attention! Admittedly, it feels weird to send lots of money off to some person in China - the first time, it really feels like a leap of faith!

    After THAT, once the watch is available from the "factory", you will receive "QC" pictures. These are photos asking you to do your own quality control and either agree that it is satisfactory (you "greenlight" or GL the watch), or disgree ("redlight" or RL) it. If you want additional photos, you can certainly ask for them, and a good TD will send them to you within a day or so. You then have to decide if you want that watch, or no. If you don't like it, and RL the watch, keep in mind that there is no guarantee that the next one they pick will be any better, and it may look worse! If you are unreasonably picky about the tiniest of details, and turn down watch after watch, the TD may flag you as a PIA and not sell to you again. I honestly think they want to avoid this as well, and also want to maintain their TD status, so are pretty good about picking out a good watch from the very start.

    This is important: PLEASE DO READ the forum rules on posting the QC photos. You are NOT ALLOWED to post the photos and ask everyone to greenlight the watch for you!

    Once you have read more about the details of the watch, if you have a specific question about the watch in the photo , you CAN post that question and ask it. Sometimes, some forum members may simply say "It looks great!", "that's a nice watch!", or "that's a nice example!" which you can then take as a clue that it looks good enough to GL. But in the end, the decision is yours alone to make.

    Keep in mind that overall, you are getting a watch that has been made and sold illegally - but due to the detail and diligence of the Chinese manufacturing processes, one that looks REMARKABLY LIKE the genuine article!!! You are paying $300 - 400 for a watch that to all intents and purposes, looks and feels very, very close to a watch that costs $8000 - 10,000 in the genuine form.

    So - will the watch work? Maybe, maybe not... There is NO GUARANTEE! My VRF MAX (it's a Hulk and they make a nice Hulk) keeps excellent time! My ARF version runs slow, and the movement probably needs cleaning - or whatever - done to it.

    As a general way of thinking about these, the Noob watches come with a 31xx movement, which is the size of the genuine Rolex movement. Because the case of the Noob is specifically made for that movement, the Noob version is amenable to "frankening", which means modifying the watch with genuine Rolex bits in the attempt to more closely replicate a genuine Rolex. The ARF version historically has come only with the 28xx movement, and as such, the case size will NOT accommodate some of the genuine Rolex parts should you decide to franken the watch.
    (NB: There was a version of 116610 LN by ARF just released last month, with the 31xx movement, you can read the reviews about that watch if you search the forum).

    The difference is, in general, the 28xx movements, although NOT like the genuine Rolex movement, are known for being highly reliable, and if there is the need to replace or repair the movement, the parts are very available and cheap. The 31xx movement IS like the genuine Rolex, but is more unreliable, and is definitely more expensive to replace or repair. No one is going to know which movement is in your watch unless they take the back off of the watch!

    I wanted a watch that looked great, but was more reliable and cheap to repair. I was not planning to modify the watch apart from buying a better (in my case, a genuine) crystal - so both of my watches have the 28xx movement.

    I hope this helps, and that you have benefited from what I have learned by all my reading in the past 6 weeks... I cannot overemphasize the importance of reading and re-reading the posts on any specific question you have, but of course there are many helpful members on the forum who will often be more than happy to help.

    Good luck!














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  • preppyr6
    replied
    One more option (not to proliferate the field of options), you can talk to Lucy (one of the TDs) about what you're looking for. She's slower than some of the other TDs, but she prides herself on doing a high-level of QC work before sending you QC pics. I order from her if I want to make sure I'm getting a reliable source of QC work from a TD, and dont think I can get enough QC coverage from looking at pics. She wont do hands-on work like BK, but she doesn't add a premium to the original watch price and she looks more closely at what she's picking up from the factory before sending you.

    This is more of a middle-of-the-road option between the bigger TDs and BK.

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