ARF 116610 904l 2824

[Drr80]

Monday ill have mine

 

[Smoke]

The qc pics are looking pretty nice

 

[tinitonsi]

 

[Tigerdragon]

They getting close

 

[BIONONE]

Do I see a subtle black hole effect on the magnifying crystal like on the SD43?

Cant wait for the comparison

 

[Tigerdragon]

I think its just the light

 

[Bigred7078]

I think its just the light

Not so sure about that. Looks just like it does on my SD43

 

[Tigerdragon]

On other Photos it looks not like black Hole so maybe some have it and some not we must wait for the reviews.

 

[PoptheC]

Looks great! Can't wait for mine to arrive.

Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk

 

[Abrown3mtg]

This is the one I have been waiting for! I absolutely love the sd43 but decided it was likely too large for my wrist. I'd much rather pick up one of these than Franken my GMT II. I'm subscribed to see what the do with this beauty over the coming weeks and if the 3135 gets announced or dropped. I presume one of you will open the case and see if they took smoke 's notes to ensure a 3135 will fit without them reworking the case and potentially throwing off another more noticeable aspect.


Sent from my iPad using RWI

 

[occb2]

I really think this ARF 116610LN is going too be the cats meow that we have been looking for in a 2824 reliability. ARF did it with the 122660 and I think they did it here too. I cant wait too have it. I shoudlhave it this week I got the tracking number, I will di a full review. I just wish I have the noob., No TD has them in stock too sake. I sent each one a request to buy and not one got back too me. Only Angus from puretime got me a ARF witch I paid for. I will give it an honest a detail review.

 

[occb2]

Guys we are getting WAY too picky for a $500 dollar copy of a $10,000 watch. Smoke is amazing with his keen eye. But when we start too think we dont see a black hole effect when we do then start to think that they will maybe put it in some watches and not others. We are trying to figure out what THEY are thinking. I doubt they will put it in some and not others. I am sure they have thousands of crystals all made the same and just use the next one in the stack.

We are getting amazing quality. I have see brand new rolex sealed crystals with a blue tint. This can be verified by a lot of guys who replace crystals. It has been that way for a few years. The big give away is the angle on the glass on the cyclops top and bottom and the lip of the crystal. ARF has the black hole effect on the 122660 why would they not on the 116610. But even if they dont, its a 10 min job to swap a crystal and I have a bunch in my shop. As far as the lum. That dial is spot on. Ask smoke. It isn't over filled or under filled. I would have too agree that it might be a give away if you were too put a timer test on the lum. Rolex last a lot longer than the fake. That is because rolex is using a complexly different chemical while the reps are still using Super lum colored too look like Chroma-light. It looks pretty dam good.

This is why I stated the thread about telling me what you guys want reviewed on the ARF. The dealers have ARF's ear and they are asking for our opinions. We start with nit picking on things that don't exist they will shut this line of communication down. Lets keep it real. Real issues.

I would love to say that only those who own a real 116610 should comment but I know that that is not fair. There are people that go to AD's and feel them and look at them all the time. I did it for years before I got my 16610 in 2000. But really when all we have are people looking a pic and comparing watches it is just crazy. I have felt and handled a lot of real and a lot of fake. These last few generations of watches are freaking amazing. While I still haven't gotten the real 122660 my ARF is amazing and from the article I read with the owner of a real one comparing the ARF it is a beauty. I do not think they will drop the ball on the 116610. I for one cant wait for the 116610 in 3135 from them. I will finally have a better case than my 116610LN that is all real but the V6S noob case.

So keep the valid questions coming in. Also understand that there will never be a PERFECT rolex clone unless Rolex makes it. Also understand that that perfect rolex once sent in for service or is used hard, will never be that perfect rolex again. The case will be re-worked by a rolex watch maker and polished and the bezel may be scratches. Band SEL off by bending spring pins. So all the little stupid details we come up with are all in our heads. To get a watch that runs and feels like a rolex is a big jump forward. Those who own real ones know exactly what I am talking about. Very big example is a noob 97200 bracelet. The V6s looks freaking amazing. You get it in your hands you know its fake. You get a real 97200 it looks identical but feels like butter. There is no comparison. But now who the hell takes your watch off your writs? Who plays with the band? You. So as long as it looks good it should be good. But now ARF listen too us and the band on ARF Daytonas, DSSD are all freaking great feeling. This is what we need. For me a BIG thing is the insert! OMG. Every 116610 I have done, one thing is the bezel and insert. I have 2 extra new rolex click packages because trust me when I tell you it is different than the noob feeling wise. (Look at my write up) but that is me. I alway had too change the insert to a real one. They started out at $1000 just for the insert. Now they are around $700. But think about it. If ARF makes a perfect copy of that which from my QC pics looks like they did, they just saved me $700 to make my watch passable. This is a huge improvement. Believe it or not even the crown looks freaking good. That is another $100 saved. When I got a 116610LN for someone and they wanted it to be 100% passable. What I would do is the following.

Change the crystal, crown, insert, remove the SA 3135 and put in a SH3135. Sometimes change the dial and hands and always changed the date wheel. Polish the rehaut and oil dip the band and sonic it. Clean it all up and reassemble. The watch looked and felt great. But you are looking at a few thousand dollars.

Now if ARF just fixed the crystal, bezel, feel of band and look of polished rehaut. They have the SH3135 when they offer it the crown looks real. What is left? Maybe a dial and hands and date wheel. Really they are saving us thousands of dollars. This is what we need too look at. Not the fact that a screw is a little too much to the right. Does this make any sense? Maybe it is just me because I mess with a lot of watches.

To me this is a win win for everyone. For someone who wants a turn key rolex rep that will pass visually this ARF looks as per my QC pic too be it. For someone who wants too modify it to be a life long watch in their collection, if the 3135 looks like this one, that will be it too!

Case ascetics, part fitment, 904L, feel and reliability of band and clasp. Weight. Total feel and look when built. This is what we should be looking at and ARF is doing it for us.

I am hoping NOOB does it too. Why? Competition. If ARF is the top dog there is no more reason for improvements. If NOOB kicks it up then ARF will keep shooting for the stars. I for one hope that BOTH of them keep making amazing freaking watches. Lets take a step back and look at the noob 4130! That movement is perfect. I was at my Mikes shop (Miskiped) and he had a Noob 4130 and a real 4130 next too each other. The finish look feel is IDENTICAL. Even the gold print is identical. Only the balance was different. I found out Noob spent millions on that movement. Also Noob spent millions on the 3235 that isn't out yet. But they did 1 to 1 copies of the freaking Daytona movement. That is huge for this hobby. Yes the case sucks. But holy crap, order a phong case. Get a real bezel, dial, hands, crystal and bracelet and you will have a rolex Daytona for under $5000-7000. And it will pass every test and unless opened even rolex will think it is real. Holy crap. That is a life long watch! the quality of that movement is that good. We have amazing times ahead in this hobby. I for one am super excited for us and RWI. Hell I loved it when TC was the best watch out there! Or BK's eye adjusting our china reps. The playing field just got raised. I mention TC for a reason. He was one of us who wanted too make the perfect 16610. There is a lot of rumors about him and people saying he was a group and maybe at the end yes. But ones he was just a guy who loved a watch and wanted to make it for the least amount he could. He was one of us. He put china on alert with his 16610's. No more cheap rep would do in the 16610. Now all the big ones make killer 16610's. Trust me. I have a china rep of a sub from 1996. I also have a V6 TC here. I will post pics next too each other and you will laugh at how sad our hobby was back then. But now it is freaking amazing and I have always been proud of what I do. Go to TRF and see. I got in a dispute with a guy years ago because I took star time case or TC or Rolex case and built them with all rolex parts. There were a lot of people on myside and some snobs that believe that Rolex are made by gods and no man should ever touch it.

This is the best site. We have the best group of guys. We have the most knowledgeable staff and senior members. Too much too name and tag. We have the best TD's. Some who have grew up in this world and have a knowledge base that is too die for. Some that are actual collectors too! I speak too them.

Sorry for the rant. But we need too concentrate on our next watches. As long as the companies are listening, we should really do what I said in my thread. Ask me what you want too know about the watches. Only one TD so far answered. So I have an ARF coming in. I would love for a Noob. Also understand. AT ZERO time should we as a person or board ask for a watch for FREE. I am paying for every watch I am reviewing. TD's are not the maker. A TD buys the watch. I wrote every TD and emailed the ones that I have emails. I stated that I want too buy any 116610 to do a evaluation on which is the best. One came back with great feed back, I actually had one ask me not too post on his RWI section. LOL. that was it. It think I got a invoice for one but it was just listed as a 116610LN no maker. I messaged back who makes it. That was over a week ago. So as of now I have one ARF 116610LN 2824 coming and the pics look amazing. I personally do not need this watch and for my part of keeping this amazing home around for as long as I can, I will be donating the ARF for a raffle as the staff feels fit.

So lets keep the good solid opinions coming in. Lets get some constructive criticism on our new generations of subs. We can really try too answer the age old question, "WHO HAS THE BEST SUB!" LOL.

Rob

 

[ginopino]

Guys we are getting WAY too picky for a $500 dollar copy of a $10,000 watch. Smoke is amazing with his keen eye. But when we start too think we dont see a black hole effect when we do then start to think that they will maybe put it in some watches and not others. We are trying to figure out what THEY are thinking. I doubt they will put it in some and not others. I am sure they have thousands of crystals all made the same and just use the next one in the stack.

We are getting amazing quality. I have see brand new rolex sealed crystals with a blue tint. This can be verified by a lot of guys who replace crystals. It has been that way for a few years. The big give away is the angle on the glass on the cyclops top and bottom and the lip of the crystal. ARF has the black hole effect on the 122660 why would they not on the 116610. But even if they dont, its a 10 min job to swap a crystal and I have a bunch in my shop. As far as the lum. That dial is spot on. Ask smoke. It isn't over filled or under filled. I would have too agree that it might be a give away if you were too put a timer test on the lum. Rolex last a lot longer than the fake. That is because rolex is using a complexly different chemical while the reps are still using Super lum colored too look like Chroma-light. It looks pretty dam good.

This is why I stated the thread about telling me what you guys want reviewed on the ARF. The dealers have ARF's ear and they are asking for our opinions. We start with nit picking on things that don't exist they will shut this line of communication down. Lets keep it real. Real issues.

I would love to say that only those who own a real 116610 should comment but I know that that is not fair. There are people that go to AD's and feel them and look at them all the time. I did it for years before I got my 16610 in 2000. But really when all we have are people looking a pic and comparing watches it is just crazy. I have felt and handled a lot of real and a lot of fake. These last few generations of watches are freaking amazing. While I still haven't gotten the real 122660 my ARF is amazing and from the article I read with the owner of a real one comparing the ARF it is a beauty. I do not think they will drop the ball on the 116610. I for one cant wait for the 116610 in 3135 from them. I will finally have a better case than my 116610LN that is all real but the V6S noob case.

So keep the valid questions coming in. Also understand that there will never be a PERFECT rolex clone unless Rolex makes it. Also understand that that perfect rolex once sent in for service or is used hard, will never be that perfect rolex again. The case will be re-worked by a rolex watch maker and polished and the bezel may be scratches. Band SEL off by bending spring pins. So all the little stupid details we come up with are all in our heads. To get a watch that runs and feels like a rolex is a big jump forward. Those who own real ones know exactly what I am talking about. Very big example is a noob 97200 bracelet. The V6s looks freaking amazing. You get it in your hands you know its fake. You get a real 97200 it looks identical but feels like butter. There is no comparison. But now who the hell takes your watch off your writs? Who plays with the band? You. So as long as it looks good it should be good. But now ARF listen too us and the band on ARF Daytonas, DSSD are all freaking great feeling. This is what we need. For me a BIG thing is the insert! OMG. Every 116610 I have done, one thing is the bezel and insert. I have 2 extra new rolex click packages because trust me when I tell you it is different than the noob feeling wise. (Look at my write up) but that is me. I alway had too change the insert to a real one. They started out at $1000 just for the insert. Now they are around $700. But think about it. If ARF makes a perfect copy of that which from my QC pics looks like they did, they just saved me $700 to make my watch passable. This is a huge improvement. Believe it or not even the crown looks freaking good. That is another $100 saved. When I got a 116610LN for someone and they wanted it to be 100% passable. What I would do is the following.

Change the crystal, crown, insert, remove the SA 3135 and put in a SH3135. Sometimes change the dial and hands and always changed the date wheel. Polish the rehaut and oil dip the band and sonic it. Clean it all up and reassemble. The watch looked and felt great. But you are looking at a few thousand dollars.

Now if ARF just fixed the crystal, bezel, feel of band and look of polished rehaut. They have the SH3135 when they offer it the crown looks real. What is left? Maybe a dial and hands and date wheel. Really they are saving us thousands of dollars. This is what we need too look at. Not the fact that a screw is a little too much to the right. Does this make any sense? Maybe it is just me because I mess with a lot of watches.

To me this is a win win for everyone. For someone who wants a turn key rolex rep that will pass visually this ARF looks as per my QC pic too be it. For someone who wants too modify it to be a life long watch in their collection, if the 3135 looks like this one, that will be it too!

Case ascetics, part fitment, 904L, feel and reliability of band and clasp. Weight. Total feel and look when built. This is what we should be looking at and ARF is doing it for us.

I am hoping NOOB does it too. Why? Competition. If ARF is the top dog there is no more reason for improvements. If NOOB kicks it up then ARF will keep shooting for the stars. I for one hope that BOTH of them keep making amazing freaking watches. Lets take a step back and look at the noob 4130! That movement is perfect. I was at my Mikes shop (Miskiped) and he had a Noob 4130 and a real 4130 next too each other. The finish look feel is IDENTICAL. Even the gold print is identical. Only the balance was different. I found out Noob spent millions on that movement. Also Noob spent millions on the 3235 that isn't out yet. But they did 1 to 1 copies of the freaking Daytona movement. That is huge for this hobby. Yes the case sucks. But holy crap, order a phong case. Get a real bezel, dial, hands, crystal and bracelet and you will have a rolex Daytona for under $5000-7000. And it will pass every test and unless opened even rolex will think it is real. Holy crap. That is a life long watch! the quality of that movement is that good. We have amazing times ahead in this hobby. I for one am super excited for us and RWI. Hell I loved it when TC was the best watch out there! Or BK's eye adjusting our china reps. The playing field just got raised. I mention TC for a reason. He was one of us who wanted too make the perfect 16610. There is a lot of rumors about him and people saying he was a group and maybe at the end yes. But ones he was just a guy who loved a watch and wanted to make it for the least amount he could. He was one of us. He put china on alert with his 16610's. No more cheap rep would do in the 16610. Now all the big ones make killer 16610's. Trust me. I have a china rep of a sub from 1996. I also have a V6 TC here. I will post pics next too each other and you will laugh at how sad our hobby was back then. But now it is freaking amazing and I have always been proud of what I do. Go to TRF and see. I got in a dispute with a guy years ago because I took star time case or TC or Rolex case and built them with all rolex parts. There were a lot of people on myside and some snobs that believe that Rolex are made by gods and no man should ever touch it.

This is the best site. We have the best group of guys. We have the most knowledgeable staff and senior members. Too much too name and tag. We have the best TD's. Some who have grew up in this world and have a knowledge base that is too die for. Some that are actual collectors too! I speak too them.

Sorry for the rant. But we need too concentrate on our next watches. As long as the companies are listening, we should really do what I said in my thread. Ask me what you want too know about the watches. Only one TD so far answered. So I have an ARF coming in. I would love for a Noob. Also understand. AT ZERO time should we as a person or board ask for a watch for FREE. I am paying for every watch I am reviewing. TD's are not the maker. A TD buys the watch. I wrote every TD and emailed the ones that I have emails. I stated that I want too buy any 116610 to do a evaluation on which is the best. One came back with great feed back, I actually had one ask me not too post on his RWI section. LOL. that was it. It think I got a invoice for one but it was just listed as a 116610LN no maker. I messaged back who makes it. That was over a week ago. So as of now I have one ARF 116610LN 2824 coming and the pics look amazing. I personally do not need this watch and for my part of keeping this amazing home around for as long as I can, I will be donating the ARF for a raffle as the staff feels fit.

So lets keep the good solid opinions coming in. Lets get some constructive criticism on our new generations of subs. We can really try too answer the age old question, "WHO HAS THE BEST SUB!" LOL.

Rob

Simply agree at 100% and thanks for the post!

 

[Tigerdragon]

Because Chinese people have no "v1 v2" etc thats just for us. Mixxed parts is a thing for years. I saw it with my own eyes in the AP 15400 thread. Dont think they have selected parts lol they even switch parts between batches look at the noob v7 there was 3 bezels in one batch.

Some noob Versions had a black hole effect too. Like i said its a hit and miss

 

[occb2]

Because Chinese people have no "v1 v2" etc thats just for us. Mixxed parts is a thing for years. I saw it with my own eyes in the AP 15400 thread. Dont think they have selected parts lol they even switch parts between batches look at the noob v7 there was 3 bezels in one batch.

Some noob Versions had a black hole effect too. Like i said its a hit and miss

I am sure. AP's I have zero clue with. Never handled one and I did win one over are RWG years ago and sold it for 1/2 of what it was worth. LOL. It was orange think called the Volcano.

Noob has lost its lead on the sub and I think they are trying too come back. They spent their time and efforts on the Daytona and probably AP and other things. To me, Like I said, the V6S was the last noob 3135 sub that was good. Now I am saying this as a modder. Not as a buy a watch and wear it. The V7 looking at it was kind of the same the V8 I heard about never saw and now a V9 is out.

I hope the V9 is a direct copy of a real rolex 116610. But knowing noob it isn't.

Also as a modder I can tell you that their variations are different. I never saw a V7 with a v6 or 6s case. I have seen them flop on the hulk bezel inserts but never on the LN. They will flop on dials sometimes. There is no method too their madness. But this is where I say, who the heck cares? So what the S is different on the word submariner. The bezel is a little less white on the early V7 and they went back too the gray from a V6. The crystal has a hint of blue or a black hole effect. All of these things are the least of our worries. A majority of us that actually care change the insert and the crystal. I am more about the ascetics of the case and the band. The feel of the watch in general . If perfection is what you want buy a brand new rolex sub and put it in a crystal box and put it on display. I own a few real ones and every one has scratches and marks. My hulk has a mark on the bottom that made someone sell the real case. IT IS ON THE BOTTOM. No one case see it.

Perfection will never come in a $500 dollar copy of a $10,000 watch. period. But my god are they making amazing copies. To this is what we should be looking at. Also like I said in the start of this. Give me everything you want me too look at on the copy I am getting. I was hoping on doing a review of the 116610 noob along with the ARF and my real ones and my all real minus V6S case one. I still want too do that and hope I will. I think it will be an epic thread. But the last thing I am going too is nit pick. I will take tons of pics and break out the measuring tools and comparing real facts and what ever else you guys feel is important. Too me, it is feel and over all look. Heck 99% of the world cant tell the difference between and Invicta and a Rolex submariner. The other 1% maybe 1% of that 1% can tell a Rep from a real one.

We are also forgetting a large detail. I do work for local pawn shop and jewelers. I have replaced crystals on trade in and services. They NEVER want real. So I will get a date just and pop in aftermarket crystal from ST and hands or what ever else they want. That jeweler sales it as real. People buy them as real. They dont look at the fact that the cyclops has a blue tint or no black hole effect. I doubt an AD would even know. Now if you take it to an service center or an AD that has a watchmaker on staff maybe. People have done it here. I can take a pic of a real rolex sub and post it. People who sit behind a keyboard and never real owned one will start saying what is wrong with it. Hell I have done it. Then I realize my knowledge in Rolex is limited too really only the 16610 and the 16613. I am just getting into the 116610's where I can see by looking. I was commenting on Daytonas like I knew what the heck I was talking about. And I was wrong. Rolex will do what they want when they want.

Does anyone remember the whole thing on the 116710LN band that one of the guys here was selling? The engraving was nothing I or even my Rolex watch maker had seen. I met the member from here down at Rolex USA and I paid $160 dollars to get it looked at with my 116710 head too find out I was wrong. That rolex is engraving like that now. It looked fake. We are clueless. But one thing they said that will stick in my mind. It met all the clearances and measurements. They didn't even look at the engraving. The look and feel and exact machinery is what they look at and is what we should be looking at. The fact that the word Swiss looks wrong or font is off isn't even in their radar.

I am very excited about the up coming watches. This noob 4130 is amazing and the 3235 looks amazing. I look forward to seeing, servicing, installing those in a crap load of epic builds! LOL,

 

[occb2]

Because Chinese people have no "v1 v2" etc thats just for us. Mixxed parts is a thing for years. I saw it with my own eyes in the AP 15400 thread. Dont think they have selected parts lol they even switch parts between batches look at the noob v7 there was 3 bezels in one batch.

Some noob Versions had a black hole effect too. Like i said its a hit and miss

Oh and yes. I see that whole version thing. I remember when Toro put down that he had the NOOB V8 a year before it came out. All it was was a V7 LV that had an different bezel insert.

 

[Tigerdragon]

Iam completly with you on that whole mess but i would never buy a submariner, i like the watch yes but i would never spend 8000 € on them because the QC from them sucks these days (no joke), iam more the AP guy because i really like how they make the bracelets it looks really cool. Submariner is not worth the price in my opinion (its only mine so yeah) because i saw some error where i was like "wtf can they miss that?" like misaligned rehauts or wrong magnifications or even wrong placed one which rolex says "Thats ok so" for that price its a no go for me.

Thats why i will never buy a gen from Rolex, AP maybe but i read alot about movement failures so i don't know.

 

[christo14]

Guys we are getting WAY too picky for a $500 dollar copy of a $10,000 watch. Smoke is amazing with his keen eye. But when we start too think we dont see a black hole effect when we do then start to think that they will maybe put it in some watches and not others. We are trying to figure out what THEY are thinking. I doubt they will put it in some and not others. I am sure they have thousands of crystals all made the same and just use the next one in the stack.

Rob

Spot on! I had a v6s 116610 LN with no mods in an office where half the employees owned gens and still no one noticed. I even gave it to my Dad who owns a gen 116610 LN and he couldn't spot the difference side by side, he only figured it out when he put the rep to his ear and shook it to hear the movement. Most people (and the members on here are not most people) couldn't tell the difference between gen and rep with both in their hands. The way these new ARF look I'd wager you could walk up to randoms in the street and ask which is rep or gen most wouldn't now the difference.

 

[christo14]

However, with that being said, if it wasn't for members like smoke who can spot the difference from the other side of a tennis court we wouldn't have the reps we do now. The rep game has just pushed the "norm" to the point of near perfection. It's awesome!!

 

[occb2]

However, with that being said, if it wasn't for members like smoke who can spot the difference from the other side of a tennis court we wouldn't have the reps we do now. The rep game has just pushed the "norm" to the point of near perfection. It's awesome!!

Yep. That is why I am so freaking excited. The level of these new watches gives me a fussy feeling inside! LOL. Really exciting times in the rep world. While the whole 904 thing is blown out or hand, the fact that they are using it is amazing. But the dial, the crown, the bezel all looking perfect and the feel too is just amazing.

I wish I liked AP. Too me they all look the same. Some say the same about Rolex. But again too me Rolex is something that goes back too my childhood. My dad brought a 5513 is 1968 and I grew up loving it. I didn't even know what Rolex was. I just loved the watch. He was a scuba diver and he taught me. When I was 12 or 13 he got me a Casio watch that looked like a sub. I wore that till a girlfriend in my 20's got me another watch which was a casio too but a wing man not diver. When I was 25ish I got my first fake in canal street NY. I was a cop in the city back then. When I turned 30 I brought my first real rolex from Rolex in NYC. It was the 16610. Through the years I have gotten a lot of them from mostly pawn shops from doing visits as a detective. But the only ones I brought from Rolex was my 16610 and my 16613 in 2003. My wife 2 over the years. When I got into this whole rep thing I learned from a guy who actually turned into the biggest disappointment I can remember. Rudy. But even bad has good side. From him I learn about yuki and I met Mike who is now a great friend and mentor. I learned how too work on the watches and have made great watches. But I know I am not the norm. Most people just buy a rep and want too wear it. When I got involved it was all about building a watch from a case. So I would get cases from TC or Sean who I really never got too know because he left right when I got into this. But I still got a few of his cases from him and BK. But with those cases I built watches that I still have and love and a bunch of friends and family and guys here have some of them. So Rolex submariners mean a lot too me personally. I am lucky too have had the chance too attempt to rescue people on 9/11 down at the WTC. That day I cracked my crystal on my 1 year old 16610. I still have that crystal. I though I lost it and my wife found it in the junk draw. Rolex USA fixed it but they charged me. LOL I though going in there with my uniform full of the dust from the pit would had inspired them too say, OMG we will fix it. Well they did say that, then a few weeks later when I went too pick it up it cost me around $300 buck. But I would never leave Rolex. Yes I have see Rolexes from the factory with issues. I was at my AD when a guy tried on a brand new Yachtmaster and the seconds hand fell off. No watch maker is perfect. But the history of the submariner and my person history with the submariner will tie me too it forever. I have a daughter no sons. So my 16610 and 16613 are locked away for hopefully my grandson if god blesses me with one. But I wear and enjoy my 16610LV that I made that is all rolex but the midcoast which is now a JF. I wear my 116610LN that is all rolex but the mid case which is noob V6S and my 116610LV which is 100% rolex made by me. I just sold my friend my 116710LN that I made that is 100% Rolex. I have others but I dont want to list them all I have in other threads. Rolex too me is home just as RWI is home. And all of you guys are my dysfunctional family!!!! LOL.