New GMF Explorer II v4?

[rockdaytona]

I saw this today, looks like a new GMF v4 explorer II. What do we think?

http://www.susanreviews.com/2021/09...-rolex-explorer-ii-216570-with-3187-movement/

 

[watchguyusa1]

I just ordered one from Jtime , these are actually available from BP or GMF ( same factory really) the BP version is 316 and the GMF is 904 (supposedly ) there is about $100 difference between the 2, this bezel is a joke nothing like the gen
haven't got my QC pics yet but the band and case seem to be exactly the same, puretime listed this watch on his website back in Nov 2020 as a V2 , so V4?? is probably just BS
also these have a "SA3185" movement which is the worst in reliability when compared to the other clone movements, quality is as follows worst to better SA-SH-VR
I will swap the movt to a VR3185 asap even Li told me they are unreliable and didn't recommend it !

https://puretimewatch.io/watch-brand...86-chs-v2.html

 

[KJ2020]

It has an SA3285 movement with fake 3187 engraving. The balance assembly is the identifier.

These movements are based ultimately on the SA3135, the least desirable rep 3135 movements. They are not well regarded, and not in the same league as the VR3185/6

GMF released true clone 3285

Also the dial marker lume looks dingy, it should be just as bright as the hands lume. This problem stems from the marker wells being painted black along with the surrounds IMO, without a base coat of white paint beneath the lume. It's not nearly as nasty as the last batches from Noob which were horrendous, but it isn't great either.

My early Noob

 

[rockdaytona]

Would love if a factory produced the new 2021 model

 

[watchguyusa1]

KJ2020 will a VR3185 swap in this watch ??

 

[Swiss_goupil]

Main problem is the dial printing- the orange Explorer II will fade quickly. I had mine for few months and it is now pale yellow… sucks

Sourcing a dial is like sourcing the grail, impossible unless you are willing to go gen and it will cost you €1000 which I think is crazy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KJ2020]

KJ2020 will a VR3185 swap in this watch ??

I think it should bro. The GMF SA3285 and the VR3185 are both based on the 3135 dimensions so the case should support either one with groove and tube positions. Also the hands should be interchangeable. Sometimes a little tweaking (crimping and broaching) is necessary putting ARF hands on a VR3185 but it's nothing a competent watchmaker can't handle easily.

 

[Elno38]

@KJ2020
I don’t want to question your knowledge master, but aren’t the 3187 and the 3285 bigger in diameter so the datewindow is on a different place (more on the outer side of the dial) and the datewheel on the movement won‘t be in the right position when you use a 3185?

 

[KJ2020]

@KJ2020
I don’t want to question your knowledge master, but aren’t the 3187 and the 3285 bigger in diameter so the datewindow is on a different place (more on the outer side of the dial) and the datewheel on the movement won‘t be in the right position when you use a 3185?

Indeed there are two date window positions for smaller dials vs larger dials (Sub vs DJ41, GMT vs EXP 42, and YM vs YM42).

In the 3135 series, the larger movements have different model numbers, the 3136 (DJ41) and 3187 (EXP 42)

For the 3235 series, Rolex decided to keep the movement model numbers the same, the 3235 for Subs, YMs and DJs, and 3285 for GMTs and EXP42. The larger dial models have a larger date indicator seating and larger datewheel.

Here is an example of two VS3235s, both are gen-spec and identical to each other except for the date indicator seating and date indicator (datewheel). The same is true for the 3285s the smaller GMT vs the larger EXP42.

​

​
The larger GMF 3285 for EXP42 would look like this, except with GMT bits added (this GMF 3235 is the larger one for DJ41)

​
So you are correct that neither the VR3185 nor the new next-gen VR3186 ( both for the smaller dial GMT) would have a datewheel with fonts in the right place for an EXP42 dial. Good catch, I missed that!

watchguyusa1


Interestingly, the date window on the GMF EXP42 looks a little left of the gen and the Noob. That may just be part of what you get with the GMF movement and the datewheel position may not be gen-spec like the movement isn't.

GMF

What we really need for the EXP42 is a next-gen VR3285 with the larger date indicator seating and datewheel. (And a gen-spec EXP42 dial)

Like this with GMT bits

​​​​​​​

 

[Elno38]

Thanks for clarifying KJ2020 !

So is there already a next-gen VR3285 with a larger date-indicator seating?

 

[KJ2020]

Thanks for clarifying KJ2020 !

So is there already a next-gen VR3285 with a larger date-indicator seating?

Not yet bro. The 226570 (new EXP42s) are the only models they could be used in so it may never happen. I think one could be custom built by scavenging the GMT bits from the VR3185 or the next gen VR3186 and fitting them on the DJ41 VR3235. The dial side of the VR3235 uses 3135 calendar parts just like the VR3185/6 so there should be no reason the movements couldn't be merged.

Stem height could be a concern. It would be an interesting mod to try.

 

[watchguyusa1]

I finally got my qc pics going to swap over to a VR3185 with a gen dial hands and xtal I will update when it done

 

[watchguyusa1]

 

[KJ2020]

I finally got my qc pics going to swap over to a VR3185 with a gen dial hands and xtal I will update when it done

That a very nice looking piece bro. Though the VR3185 movement is the same size, it was brought up today by Elno38 that the date window on the 216570 is further right than the datewheel on the VR3185.

You can see in these pics that the datewheel on the GMF DJ41 SA3235 (which should be the same as the GMF SA3285 just with GMT bits added) is wider than the VR3185, and that the numbers are pushed further right.

So it looks like the VR3185 will be a no go. There isn't a VR3285 with the wider datewheel yet AFAIK so you are likely stuck with the GMF movement for now. I would think gen hands and dial could be fitted to the GMF movement but you'll be breaking new ground here if you decide to do it as this movement is new.

 

[KJ2020]

The original GMF SA3285 for GMTs (126710's etc.) has a datewheel the same size as the VR3185. It's the larger dial size on the EXP42 that makes the VR3185 datewheel not compatible.

So like the VS3235s and the VR3235s, it appears there are two sizes of datewheels on GMF SA3285 movements. A narrow one for the GMTs and a wider one for the EXP42.

 

[watchguyusa1]

Yes I understand the date window may be a challenge, but look at these 2 pics the top is a gen the second is the BP Factory I have coming ,it does appear that the rep has the date window in the correct position? Maybe the factory is using a DWO that is positioning the date to the correct position?

 

[watchguyusa1]

KJ2020

 

[KJ2020]

KJ2020

Yes the GMF date window is in the correct (gen-spec) position. But in a true clone movement based on a 3135 there is no way to use an overlay.

So instead the date indicator seating (date plate) and the whole date indicator (datewheel) are made differently to accommodate the numbers being pushed further right from dial center.

If you were swapping a VR3185 into a GMF 126710 there would be no issue, as those datewheels are alike. The date window on a GMT is closer to center dial than it is on an EXP42.

These datewheels are both narrow

On the GMF 3285 for the EXP42, the date plate will have to be slightly different to accommodate the wider datewheel needed for the EXP42 dial. GMF did this exact thing for the SA3235 DJ41 dial. The GMF SA3285 has to have a second version with a wider datewheel also.

Wider datewheel like the GMF SA3285 has to have for the EXP42

You can't just put the wider GMF date plate and datewheel on a VR3185 unless the mounting screw holes are in the same place and they do not appear to be.

In a previous post in this thread I mentioned taking a DJ41 VR3235 and adding the VR3185/6 GMT bits to it to make a wide datewheel VR GMT movement. But that's an unknown exploratory mod at this point. I kind of doubt there will be an actual wide datewheel VR3285 since the EXP42 is the only model it would be used in, and the model isn't the big seller that the GMTs are.

 

[KJ2020]

But wait, did you really get a BP and not a GMF? If so, what movement does it have?

 

[watchguyusa1]

Ok, Got it
so looks like the gen dial and hands would fit the gmf SA movement , but not the vr 3185
can the sa movement be serviced to be reliable? Or is this movement just as bad as a SA3135 movement?