Common Swiss Movements and their Clones
Links to clone movement suppliers have been added.
Clone information regarding movement size, hand size, etc is listed in yellow font.
Original movement information is listed in the white image boxes.
ETA 2824-2
ETA 2824-2 - ETA's basic automatic winding, twenty-five (25) jewel movement which traces its roots back to the 1950's.
» Near-exact copies of the 2824-2 are produced by Sellita (the SW200) in Switzerland and by Hangzhou (the HZ6300), Sea-Gull (the ST21) and Shanghai Watch Factory (designation unknown) in China. Cousins UK offer the CH8824M. The Valanvron watch company in Switzerland assemble and finish ST21 ebauches as legally 'Swiss Made' movements, designated Valanvron 24.
Detailed comparison: http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=216945
Chinese Movement 8824
Diameter (MM): 11-1/2MM
Thickness (MM): 5.05MM
Hand Sizes: 1.5/.90/.25
Additional Information: AUTOMATIC - 3 HANDS WITH DATE
ETA 2836-2
ETA 2836-2 - The day/date variant of the 2824-2
» Near-exact copies of the 2836-2 are the Swiss Sellita SW220, Chinese Hangzhou HZ6311 and a Sea-Gull ST21 variant. Cousins UK offer the CH8836M. The Valanvron 36 is based on a Sea-Gull ebauche.
Chinese Movement 8836
Diameter (MM): 11-1/2MM
Thickness (MM): 5.05MM
Hand Sizes: 1.5/.90/.25
Additional Information: AUTOMATIC - 3 HANDS WITH DAY DATE (COMP. WITH ETA 2824)
ETA 2892.A2
ETA 2892.A2 - ETA's more upscale 2892 is an automatic winding, twenty-one (21) jewel movement fitted with top quality components, with its design dating to the 1970's. Owing to it's relatively slim height of 3.60mm, the 2892.A2 provides a good platform on which to add or build a chronograph complication.
» The Sea-Gull ST18 is a near copy of the 2892. Valanvron assemble and finish ST18 ebauches as Swiss Made movements, designated Valanvron 92. Cousins UK offer the CHST18M.
Detailed comparison: http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=1877875
Chinese Movement CHST18M
Size Ø25.6mm
M/M Ht 3.65
Date 3H
Hands Min 1.50, Hr .90, Sec .25
Supplemental Auto/Mechanical
Valjoux 7750
Valjoux 7750 - The ETA/Valjoux 7750 is a widely used automatic winding, twenty-five (25) jewel chronograph movement, which can be fitted with a variety of features including the triple date (day, date, month and moon phase) or a variety of two and three register models with totalizers or counters for minutes, seconds and hours.
» Various Chinese clones of the 7750 are manufactured by the Liaoning Watch Factory and the Shanghai Watch Factory. Non-Chinese clones include the Swiss Sellita SW500 and Russian Maktime 30664. Cousins UK offer the CH3LZF2M.
Unitas 6497-1
Unitas 6497-1 - The ETA/Unitas 6497 is a large, manual winding, seventeen (17) jewel movement, often fitted with a subsidiary (small) seconds complication in the 9 o'clock position. Originally intended for pocket watches, the 6497 has seen a recent resurgence in popularity due to its association with Officine Panerai wristwatches and homages.
» Hangzhou's HZ9000 series is a near copy of an earlier version of the 6497/6498, whereas the Sea-Gull ST36 is closer to the current ETA version. Both Hangzhou and Sea-Gull versions are available in skeleton versions that stylistically differ from the ETA version. Cousins UK offer the CHI3600M.
Venus 175
Venus 175 - A hand-winding movement with column-wheel controlled chronograph with 30 minute totalizer, no hour totalizer. Production ceased in the early 1960s.
»Strictly speaking, the Sea-Gull ST19 is not a 'clone' of the Venus 175, as it is descended directly from a movement built on the same tool-set as the original Venus, transfered to the Tianjin Watch Factory in the 1960s for production of a watch exclusively for the Chinese air force. This ancient design was resurrected in the 21st century, and subtly but extensively upgraded to become the ST19. Due to its use in fake Omega Speedmasters, it is occasionally (and very incorrectly) referred to as a 'Lemania clone'.
From time to time, luxury Swiss watches are offered featuring refurbished vintage Swiss movements, including the Venus 175, however examples have emerged where Swiss companies have used the ST19 and claimed to use a vintage 175. Any such watch featuring more than 19 jewels and an escapement 'upgraded' to 21,600bph should be assumed to be a mis-labelled Sea-Gull ST19.
Note: A thorough comparison of Sea-Gull's clone movements and their ETA counterparts can be found on the TZ-UK forum: http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43661&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
Common Japanese Movements and their Clones
Miyota 8205/8215
Miyota 8205/8215 - The Japanese made Citizen/Miyota 8205/8215 and 82S and 8N series variants are among the most popular off-the-shelf automatic movements used worldwide by OEMand proprietory watch manufacturers due to their robust nature and low cost. These movements are able to hand wind, but auto-wind in only one direction and lack a hacking (seconds stopping) function. The escapement beats at 21,600bph (6 beats per second).
» Chinese-made clones include the Dixmont Guangzhou DG28/38 series and near identical Nanning NN28/38 series. In their basic form these movements exactly match the dimensions of the Miyota movement, enabling them to compete directly for some of Miyota's established clients. Their most significant difference from the Miyota is the wide range of functional enhancements available on these movements, which gives the Chinese manufacturers a competitive edge in the marketplace. For example - the ability to offer a watch assembler both a day/date and a GMT complication compatable with the same case dimensions. Unlike the Miyota, the DG and NN movements have a hacking function. Fujitime is an example of a watch company that has switched from Miyota 8205/8215 to DG28. The DG/NN design may be visually distinguished from the Miyota by a stepped top plate with prominently chamfered holes for the jewels on the edge of the step.
Fujita offer a basic version of the DG/NN design, possibly finished from a bought-in ebauche. Qingdao Zixin have also produced some variants of the Miyota clone. The Beijing Watch Factory make a version of this same design, distingishable by a different shockproofing device, and usually a very high quality of finish. Elaborately decorated skeleton versions are produced, along with many unique calendar and dual-time functions.
» The Sea-Gull ST16 is also greatly influenced by the Miyota design, but with significant differences in the auto-winding mechanism, which is based on the Seiko system. Like the DG and NN movements, the basic ST16 is also dimensionally compatible with the Miyota, but also hacks. The revised ST17 positions the 4th wheel at 6 o'clock to better suit a seconds sub-dial, while retaining the Miyota dimensions. Both the ST16 and ST17 have a separate plate for the auto-winding module, making them easy to distinguish from a Miyota movement.
The excellent reputation of Miyota automatic movements has led to some on-line sellers claiming a 'Miyota' movement in watches using the DG or NN movements. The Croton watch company even goes so far as to designate the the DG28 used in their watches as 'Japanese CR8215 movement' and their sellers claim it is a 'modified Miyota'. The rotor is marked 'Japan', even though the DG logo is clearly visible below the balance wheel. Similarly, their day/date 'Japanese CR8205 movement' is in fact the Sea-Gull ST16. Cousins UK offer the DG2813M. Ofrei offers MT-2813.
Chinese Movement DG2813
Diameter (MM): 26MM
Thickness (MM): 5.62MM
Hand Sizes: 1.5/1.0/.17
I hope our members find this information useful.
Thanks RWI,
Ken
Links to clone movement suppliers have been added.
Clone information regarding movement size, hand size, etc is listed in yellow font.
Original movement information is listed in the white image boxes.
ETA 2824-2
ETA 2824-2 - ETA's basic automatic winding, twenty-five (25) jewel movement which traces its roots back to the 1950's.
» Near-exact copies of the 2824-2 are produced by Sellita (the SW200) in Switzerland and by Hangzhou (the HZ6300), Sea-Gull (the ST21) and Shanghai Watch Factory (designation unknown) in China. Cousins UK offer the CH8824M. The Valanvron watch company in Switzerland assemble and finish ST21 ebauches as legally 'Swiss Made' movements, designated Valanvron 24.
Detailed comparison: http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=216945
Chinese Movement 8824
Diameter (MM): 11-1/2MM
Thickness (MM): 5.05MM
Hand Sizes: 1.5/.90/.25
Additional Information: AUTOMATIC - 3 HANDS WITH DATE
ETA 2836-2
ETA 2836-2 - The day/date variant of the 2824-2
» Near-exact copies of the 2836-2 are the Swiss Sellita SW220, Chinese Hangzhou HZ6311 and a Sea-Gull ST21 variant. Cousins UK offer the CH8836M. The Valanvron 36 is based on a Sea-Gull ebauche.
Chinese Movement 8836
Diameter (MM): 11-1/2MM
Thickness (MM): 5.05MM
Hand Sizes: 1.5/.90/.25
Additional Information: AUTOMATIC - 3 HANDS WITH DAY DATE (COMP. WITH ETA 2824)
ETA 2892.A2
ETA 2892.A2 - ETA's more upscale 2892 is an automatic winding, twenty-one (21) jewel movement fitted with top quality components, with its design dating to the 1970's. Owing to it's relatively slim height of 3.60mm, the 2892.A2 provides a good platform on which to add or build a chronograph complication.
» The Sea-Gull ST18 is a near copy of the 2892. Valanvron assemble and finish ST18 ebauches as Swiss Made movements, designated Valanvron 92. Cousins UK offer the CHST18M.
Detailed comparison: http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=1877875
Chinese Movement CHST18M
Size Ø25.6mm
M/M Ht 3.65
Date 3H
Hands Min 1.50, Hr .90, Sec .25
Supplemental Auto/Mechanical
Valjoux 7750
Valjoux 7750 - The ETA/Valjoux 7750 is a widely used automatic winding, twenty-five (25) jewel chronograph movement, which can be fitted with a variety of features including the triple date (day, date, month and moon phase) or a variety of two and three register models with totalizers or counters for minutes, seconds and hours.
» Various Chinese clones of the 7750 are manufactured by the Liaoning Watch Factory and the Shanghai Watch Factory. Non-Chinese clones include the Swiss Sellita SW500 and Russian Maktime 30664. Cousins UK offer the CH3LZF2M.
Unitas 6497-1
Unitas 6497-1 - The ETA/Unitas 6497 is a large, manual winding, seventeen (17) jewel movement, often fitted with a subsidiary (small) seconds complication in the 9 o'clock position. Originally intended for pocket watches, the 6497 has seen a recent resurgence in popularity due to its association with Officine Panerai wristwatches and homages.
» Hangzhou's HZ9000 series is a near copy of an earlier version of the 6497/6498, whereas the Sea-Gull ST36 is closer to the current ETA version. Both Hangzhou and Sea-Gull versions are available in skeleton versions that stylistically differ from the ETA version. Cousins UK offer the CHI3600M.
Venus 175
Venus 175 - A hand-winding movement with column-wheel controlled chronograph with 30 minute totalizer, no hour totalizer. Production ceased in the early 1960s.
»Strictly speaking, the Sea-Gull ST19 is not a 'clone' of the Venus 175, as it is descended directly from a movement built on the same tool-set as the original Venus, transfered to the Tianjin Watch Factory in the 1960s for production of a watch exclusively for the Chinese air force. This ancient design was resurrected in the 21st century, and subtly but extensively upgraded to become the ST19. Due to its use in fake Omega Speedmasters, it is occasionally (and very incorrectly) referred to as a 'Lemania clone'.
From time to time, luxury Swiss watches are offered featuring refurbished vintage Swiss movements, including the Venus 175, however examples have emerged where Swiss companies have used the ST19 and claimed to use a vintage 175. Any such watch featuring more than 19 jewels and an escapement 'upgraded' to 21,600bph should be assumed to be a mis-labelled Sea-Gull ST19.
Note: A thorough comparison of Sea-Gull's clone movements and their ETA counterparts can be found on the TZ-UK forum: http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43661&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
Common Japanese Movements and their Clones
Miyota 8205/8215
Miyota 8205/8215 - The Japanese made Citizen/Miyota 8205/8215 and 82S and 8N series variants are among the most popular off-the-shelf automatic movements used worldwide by OEMand proprietory watch manufacturers due to their robust nature and low cost. These movements are able to hand wind, but auto-wind in only one direction and lack a hacking (seconds stopping) function. The escapement beats at 21,600bph (6 beats per second).
» Chinese-made clones include the Dixmont Guangzhou DG28/38 series and near identical Nanning NN28/38 series. In their basic form these movements exactly match the dimensions of the Miyota movement, enabling them to compete directly for some of Miyota's established clients. Their most significant difference from the Miyota is the wide range of functional enhancements available on these movements, which gives the Chinese manufacturers a competitive edge in the marketplace. For example - the ability to offer a watch assembler both a day/date and a GMT complication compatable with the same case dimensions. Unlike the Miyota, the DG and NN movements have a hacking function. Fujitime is an example of a watch company that has switched from Miyota 8205/8215 to DG28. The DG/NN design may be visually distinguished from the Miyota by a stepped top plate with prominently chamfered holes for the jewels on the edge of the step.
Fujita offer a basic version of the DG/NN design, possibly finished from a bought-in ebauche. Qingdao Zixin have also produced some variants of the Miyota clone. The Beijing Watch Factory make a version of this same design, distingishable by a different shockproofing device, and usually a very high quality of finish. Elaborately decorated skeleton versions are produced, along with many unique calendar and dual-time functions.
» The Sea-Gull ST16 is also greatly influenced by the Miyota design, but with significant differences in the auto-winding mechanism, which is based on the Seiko system. Like the DG and NN movements, the basic ST16 is also dimensionally compatible with the Miyota, but also hacks. The revised ST17 positions the 4th wheel at 6 o'clock to better suit a seconds sub-dial, while retaining the Miyota dimensions. Both the ST16 and ST17 have a separate plate for the auto-winding module, making them easy to distinguish from a Miyota movement.
The excellent reputation of Miyota automatic movements has led to some on-line sellers claiming a 'Miyota' movement in watches using the DG or NN movements. The Croton watch company even goes so far as to designate the the DG28 used in their watches as 'Japanese CR8215 movement' and their sellers claim it is a 'modified Miyota'. The rotor is marked 'Japan', even though the DG logo is clearly visible below the balance wheel. Similarly, their day/date 'Japanese CR8205 movement' is in fact the Sea-Gull ST16. Cousins UK offer the DG2813M. Ofrei offers MT-2813.
Chinese Movement DG2813
Diameter (MM): 26MM
Thickness (MM): 5.62MM
Hand Sizes: 1.5/1.0/.17
I hope our members find this information useful.
Thanks RWI,
Ken
