{*PCTeam*} PAM Luminor 44mm CASE-SETS - Noob vs. KW vs. H maker - ALE-Klockis Review

[ALE7575]

PAM Luminor 44mm CASE-SETS - Noob vs. KW vs. H maker - ALE-Klockis Review

This is a PCTeam thread made by Klockis and me working in cooperation.
As happened with PAM Boutiques Review, Klockis really has made all hard and expert job, both in watches and photography. He took many times all pics until achieving the correct ones with infinite patience, he disassembled and assembled the watches many times to get all data required for this job and wrote several pre-reviews.
With all available data we have written together the first review text. The same as with PAM Boutiques Review, I have just organized the thread, edited the pics to make up the Figures and figure texts and arranged the final BBcode Text.
This thread would not have been possible without Klockis cooperation. He was always patient, willing, nice, polite and brilliant.
Working with Klockis in these threads during last months has been an unforgettable experience
I really think that we have had the opportunity not only to achieve these reviews but to consolidate a strong friendship. A true pleasure.

Many thanks also to Boudart, Baxter and Goin who provide the gen pics to get the data for this review. These friends took patiently many gen pics to meet our requirements and we have used all them to get all comments, comparisons and conclusions of this review.

You could complete this thread reading the PAM Boutique KW vs. H maker comparison Review:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-pam-boutique-145665
In this way you can apply these two reviews as a guide to make the review of any PAM Luminor 44mm model that you wish.


INTRODUCTION
The purpose of this thread is to review, compare and evaluate the main PAM LUMINOR 44mm replica Case-sets, Crystals and Casebacks in the market on May 2013:
- Noob factory V3
- H maker
- Kuvarsit Watches (KW)

This thread is also created to provide the necessary data to evaluate, by yourself, any PAM Luminor 44mm case-set.

We will consider as a Case-set the group of elements as follows:
- Case
- Crown tube
- Bezel and gaskets
- Crown Guard
- Lever
- Crown
- Screws

Since a 44mm PAM LUMINOR watch can have several types of Crystals and Casebacks, we will study separately the Crystals and the Casebacks in order to get a Case–set review valid for all 44mm LUMINOR watches.

If you want to evaluate a concrete model of 44mm LUMINOR watch you should consider above mentioned Case-set review and then the review of Crystal and Caseback corresponding to this concrete model.
In this thread after Case-set review you can find the review of Crystals and Casebacks.




CASE-SET REVIEW


1- CASE

As above commented, we would like to say thanks to Boudart, Baxter and Goin who provide the gen pics to get the data for this review. These friends took patiently many gen pics to meet our requirements and we have used all them to get all comments, comparisons and conclusions of this review. Below you can see some of the gen pics used as reference. In Photoshop comparisons we have used Boudart’s pics due to their high definition and focus quality.

FIGURE 1.A- REFERENCE GEN PICS



1.1- Case Finish and appearance- Quality of polishing, brushing. Quality of appearance, look, edges definition, uniformity of surfaces… Leaving aside accuracy

Noob case has a great finish overall. The polished surfaces are very well made, they are uniform and without warps. Edges are clean, well defined and sharp. Some machining can be seen on the polished inside of the lugs. The lug contours joining the case are not as well defined and clean as in H maker and KW. Noob case has sometimes ripples in the case surface just over the lugs. See following FIGURES 1.2.3.A , 1.2.3.C and ALE Remarks
KW case has great finish with lots of attention to details, very gen-like. Polished surfaces are extremely well made very uniform and without warps. Edges are very well defined, sharp and precise. The polished inside lugs also have some slight lines from the machining but KW is the best in this regard. Lug contours joining the case are completely clean and defined, like the gen, even under a magnifying lens. KW is the best in this regard
H maker case lacks the attention to details of the other two. H maker case has a bit sloppy manufacture. Edges are not as well defined, are not completely straight and are too rounded many times. H maker also has the roughest finish inside the lugs although it is polished, you can see many scratches of machining. However lug contours joining the case are better defined and cleaner than Noob (but worse than KW)

We will analyze below the “inner lugs†finish and the contour of the lugs joining the case. When we talk, in this Section 5.5, about “inner lugsâ€, we mean not only the inner side of own lugs but also the polished surface of the case between lugs.

In FIGURE 1.1.A we can see the inner lugs of three watches, KW case is polished near mirror (blue arrows) until the corners, whereas Noob and H maker stop mirror polish before the corners and have rougher inner lugs surface. Please note that the pics are just to show the type of flaw, and they are from some concrete samples, because actually not all Noob cases are so rough as showed in below pic and H maker usually are worse.

FIGURE 1.1.A- INNER LUGS FINISH COMPARISON NOOB-KW-H MAKER

Let see now the contours of the lugs when they are joining the case
Below FIGURE 1.1.B shows the clean and defined contours of a gen PAM 417

FIGURE 1.1.B- LUG CONTOURS JOINING THE CASE IN A GEN PAM 417

Noob contours of the lugs are less clean than KW and H maker ones. See in FIGURE 1.1.C the zones marked in orange, the contour of the lugs is not completely clean and sometimes Noob cases have some ripples in the surface of the case over the lugs.
KW contours of the lugs are clean and very well finished when join the case, just like gen contours.
H maker has better contours than Noob but worse than KW. As you can see in previous FIGURE 1.1.A

See FIGURE 1.1.C where are showed a comparison between Noob and KW contours

FIGURE 1.1.C- CONTOURS OF THE LUGS JOINING THE CASE COMPARISON NOOB-KW

There are many other aspects regarding finish, anyway, above mentioned give a good idea about the care that a replica has been made. But all the details and corners of the watch participate in a general appearance of care and quality, and why not beauty. At the level of accuracy of current replicas a finish almost like gen watch is taking a very important place in overall quality of a replica. In this regard Noob and foremost KW are getting almost gen levels. It is really impressive to observe a current KW replica under a magnifying lens, and to realize the high grade of finish and the care of details applied.

Klockis remarks: Pam reps have come a long way in the last couple of years, starting with the Noob 111J and H maker 005K but they still have some issues to address before the finish is up to gen standards.
KW brings the game up in this regard with a great finish. I hope that Noob and H maker follow, it can not cost that much to give some extra attention to polishing and brushing.
Evaluation: Noob=7 / KW=8 / Hmaker=5
ALE remarks: Following my experience with Noob cases, I can say that there are many Noob cases which are better than you can see in above pics, although they have always some issues of ripples over the lugs. Ripples are sometimes enhanced but others hidden by the polishing, depending on light conditions (See below pics) and they are usually noticeable in Ti and SS brushed cases.

KW case finish, appearance and care of details are some of the best I have seen in replicas (if not the best one), you can realize this good finish, and then KW case really is very gen-like.
H maker are usually worse than showed in the pics.
Concerning finish and appearance my order is KW, Noob and H maker.
Evaluation: Noob=7,5 / KW=9 / Hmaker=6



1.2- Visual and dimensional accuracy of Case- Accuracy of dimensions, shape, edges, texture, appearance….
Luminor 44mm rep cases have got a very good level of accuracy of dimensions and appearance. However we can say that no one of the three main current rep cases (May 2013) has the dimensions or shapes of the gen. There are still some noticeable differences that we will study in this Section.
The total width at the tip of the lugs is the same for all replicas and the gen, about 53,4 mm. You can see this comparison between all couples of replicas in below FIGURE 1.2.A

FIGURE 1.2.A- COMPARISON OF REPS WIDTH

In above FIGURE 1.2.A we can see that seemingly all the cases are almost the same but they hold some important differences as we will see below in this Section.


Noob case
Noob case is very well manufactured and carefully finished and it is accurate in general dimensions. Edges and corners are clean, defined and well aligned. Concerning dimensional tolerances Noob cases have a big reputation of small tolerances and quality among people working in them. Noob dimensions are as usually very consistent.
Anyway Noob case has some differences and some finish issues as we will see below.

KW case
KW case is very well manufactured and is the best finished and it is accurate in general dimensions. Edges and corners are clean, defined and well aligned. Concerning dimensional tolerances, we have not yet experience with KW cases, but seeing the quality of manufacture and finish we can expect similar results to Noob cases. Studied samples were good at this regard.
Anyway, KW case also has some differences as we will see below.

H maker case
H maker case doesn’t seem as well manufactured and finished as Noob and KW case, but it actually is accurate in general dimensions, even in some aspects better than Noob and KW (as we will see below), but it is made a little sloopy in comparison with them. Edges and corners are not as defined and clean as previous cases, many edges are more rounded and there are some misalignments and inequalities. Concerning dimensional tolerances H maker has not the good reputation of Noob among the people working in them, we have (mainly Klockis who knows very well these cases) no as good experience as with Noob cases.
Like in previous cases there are some differences and issues that we will see below.



1.2.1- The curved SHAPE @ 12 and 6 hrs.
Luminor case contour is a quadrangle of curved sides. Sides @12 and 6 have a bit less pronounced shape in KW cases.
In the FIGURE 1.2.1.A the shape variation is very exaggerated to enhance the difference.

FIGURE 1.2.1.A- DIFFERENCES IN KW CURVED SHAPE @ 12 AND 6 hrs.

These variations of curved shape are no noticeable in practice, but it exists.



1.2.2- View from 9 hours position
On below pics we will analyze the differences of three rep cases with the gen case from a point of view @ 9 hours.


NOOB CASE

FIGURE 1.2.2.A- GEN-NOOB CASES COMPARISON- GENERAL VIEW FROM 9 hrs.

FIGURE 1.2.2.B- GEN-NOOB CASES COMPARISON- ALIGNMENTS FROM 9 hrs.

In above FIGURES 1.2.2.A & 1.2.2.B is showed clearly that Noob case has less pronounced cushion shape and that the lugs start higher at the top of the case. Therefore Noob lugs are clearly fatter at the base joining the case. These differences can be seen in the FIGURE 1.2.2.B following the misalignment between blue gen line and violet Noob line. Blue star indicates gen cushion corner and violet star indicates Noob cushion corner.

FIGURE 1.2.2.C- GEN-NOOB CASES COMPARISON- SHAPE DIFFERENCES FROM 9 hrs.

Above FIGURE 1.2.2.C shows the shape differences in Noob case with gen case. Blue contour is the gen and violet contour is the differences found on the rep.
Orange zones indicate exceeding material in rep shape and green zones indicate missing material in rep shape.
Noob cushion shape is 0,4-0,5 mm less pronounced than gen
Noob lugs are fatter at the top about 0,5 mm.
Noob lug holes are well placed in practice, but there are variations between samples, sample studied are a bit inwards and lower, no noticeable.
It is necessary to say that Noob lugs, although they have inaccurate shape at the top, are the nicer lugs of three replicas. Noob lugs are more aesthetic and give more appearance of strength



KW CASE

FIGURE 1.2.2.D- GEN-KW CASES COMPARISON- GENERAL VIEW FROM 9 hrs.

FIGURE 1.2.2.E- GEN-KW CASES COMPARISON- ALIGNMENTS FROM 9 hrs.

In above FIGURES 1.2.2.D & 1.2.2.E is showed clearly that KW case has almost the same cushion shape than gen and that the lugs start a bit higher at the bottom of the case. Therefore KW lugs are clearly thinner at the base joining the case. These differences can be seen in the FIGURE 1.2.2.E following the misalignment between blue gen line and violet KW line. Blue star indicates gen cushion corner and violet star indicates KW cushion corner.
The lugs start at the bottom higher because lower KW case profile ends a bit higher at the sides (about 0,2-0,3 mm). Please note that KW case is thinner only at the sides (just in the corner) not at the center. See below and above pic.

FIGURE 1.2.2.F- GEN-KW CASES COMPARISON- SHAPE DIFFERENCES FROM 9 hrs.

Above FIGURE 1.2.2.F shows the shape differences in KW case with gen case. Blue contour is the gen and violet contour is the differences found on the rep.
Orange zones indicate exceeding material in rep shape and green zones indicate missing material in rep shape.
KW cushion shape is almost the same as gen.
KW lugs are a bit shorter
KW lugs are a bit thinner at the bottom about 0,2- 0,3mmm, because the lower profile of the case also ends a bit higher than gen. The case is only thinner at the corners.
Lug curve at the top is a bit protruded. The tip of the lug is a bit rounded.
KW case corner is a bit outwards.
KW lug holes are placed clearly high (vertical position seems accurate). There are variations between samples, but holes higher position is very noticeable.



H MAKER CASE

FIGURE 1.2.2.G- GEN-H MAKER CASES COMPARISON- GENERAL VIEW FROM 9 hrs.

FIGURE 1.2.2.H- GEN-H MAKER CASES COMPARISON- ALIGNMENTS FROM 9 hrs.

In above FIGURES 1.2.2.G & 1.2.2.H is showed that H maker case has a cushion shape near to gen, a bit less pronounced and that the lugs start a bit higher at the top of the case. Therefore H maker lugs are a little fatter at the base joining the case. These differences can be seen in the FIGURE 1.2.2.H following the little misalignment between blue gen line and violet H maker line. Blue star indicates gen cushion corner and violet star indicates H maker cushion corner.

FIGURE 1.2.2.I- GEN-H MAKER CASES COMPARISON- SHAPE DIFFERENCES FROM 9 hrs.

Above FIGURE 1.2.2.I shows the shape differences in KW case with gen case. Blue contour is the gen and violet contour is the differences found on the rep.
Orange zones indicate exceeding material in rep shape and green zones indicate missing material in rep shape.
H maker cushion shape is a little less pronounced than gen.
H maker lugs are a bit shorter and fatter at the bottom of the case. At the bottom the lugs are sharpening from the base to the tip, The tip of the lugs are a little ugly and very rounded, for this reason H maker lugs seem a little shorter.
H maker case corner is a bit outwards and it is not completely vertical like the base of the lugs joining the case.
H maker lug holes are placed almost in good position. There are variations between samples, but H maker studied samples had good position (a bit lower).



1.2.3- View from 12 hours position
On below pics we will analyze the differences of three rep cases with the gen case from a point of view @ 12 hours.


NOOB CASE

FIGURE 1.2.3.A- GEN-NOOB CASES COMPARISON- GENERAL VIEW FROM 12 hrs.

FIGURE 1.2.3.B- GEN-NOOB CASES COMPARISON- ALIGNMENTS FROM 12 hrs.

In above FIGURES 1.2.3.A & 1.2.3.B is showed clearly again that Noob case has less pronounced cushion shape and that the lugs start higher at the top of the case. Cushion shape diffference can be seen in the FIGURE 1.2.3.B following the misalignment between blue gen line and violet Noob line. Blue star indicates gen cushion corner and violet star indicates Noob cushion corner.

FIGURE 1.2.3.C- GEN-NOOB CASES COMPARISON- SHAPE DIFFERENCES FROM 12 hrs.

Above FIGURE 1.2.3.C shows the shape differences in Noob case with gen case. Blue contour is the gen and violet contour is the rep.
Orange zones indicate exceeding material in rep shape and green zones indicate missing material in rep shape.
Noob cushion shape is 0,4-0,5 mm less pronounced than gen
Noob lugs start higher at the top of the case about 0,4-0,5 mm.



KW CASE

FIGURE 1.2.3.D- GEN-KW CASES COMPARISON- GENERAL VIEW FROM 12 hrs.

FIGURE 1.2.3.E- GEN-KW CASES COMPARISON- ALIGNMENTS FROM 12 hrs.

In above FIGURES 1.2.3.D & 1.2.3.E is showed clearly that KW case has almost the same cushion shape than gen. Blue star indicates gen cushion corner and violet star indicates KW cushion corner.
KW lugs start a bit higher at the bottom of the case.
Lower KW case profile ends a bit higher at the sides (about 0,2-0,3 mm), please note only at the sides, just at the corners. These differences can be seen in the FIGURE 1.2.3.E following the misalignment between blue gen line and violet KW line.

FIGURE 1.2.3.F- GEN-KW CASES COMPARISON- SHAPE DIFFERENCES FROM 12 hrs.

Above FIGURE 1.2.3.F shows the shape differences in KW case with gen case. Blue contour is the gen and violet contour is the rep.
Green zones indicate missing material in rep shape.
KW cushion shape is almost the same as gen.
KW lugs start a bit lower at the top of the case.
Lower profile of the case ends at the sides a bit higher than gen. Just at the corners



H MAKER CASE

FIGURE 1.2.3.G- GEN-H MAKER CASES COMPARISON- GENERAL VIEW FROM 12 hrs.

FIGURE 1.2.3.H- GEN-H MAKER CASES COMPARISON- ALIGNMENTS FROM 12 hrs.

In above FIGURES 1.2.3.G & 1.2.3.H is showed that H maker case has a cushion shape near to gen, a bit less pronounced and that the lugs start a bit higher at the top of the case. These differences can be seen in the FIGURE 1.2.3.H following the little misalignment between blue gen line and violet H maker line. Blue star indicates gen cushion corner and violet star indicates H maker cushion corner.

FIGURE 1.2.3.I- GEN-H MAKER CASES COMPARISON- SHAPE DIFFERENCES FROM 12 hrs.

Above FIGURE 1.2.3.I shows the shape differences in KW case with gen case. Blue contour is the gen and violet contour is the rep.
Orange zones indicate exceeding material in rep shape and green zones indicate missing material in rep shape.
H maker cushion shape is a little less pronounced than gen.
H maker lugs start a little higher at the top of the case.
H maker case corner is not completely either straight or vertical.


You can see in below FIGURE 1.2.3.J a summary of the lug position at the top in Noob, KW and H maker in comparison wit the gen case.
Maybe H maker is the most accurate in this regard.

FIGURE 1.2.3.J- POSITION OF THE TOP END OF THE REP LUGS IN COMPARISON WITH THE GEN

There are also some variations either in above mentioned position, or in the size of the lugs joining the case or maybe in the cushion shape, because sometimes the position of the top end of the lugs seems different, between samples, in relation with the cushion shape edge.
Regarding above mentioned matter you can see in below FIGURE 1.2.3.K some examples of rep lugs extremely displaced. Noob lug is almost reaching the cushion shape edge and KW lug is really low in relation with cushion shape edge.

FIGURE 1.2.3.K- NOOB AND KW EXTREMELY DISPLACED TOP END OF THE LUGS IN RELATION TO THE CUSHION SHAPE EDGE


We know that above study of Visual and dimensional accuracy achieves some results and conclusions that are, somehow, different to people general thoughts.
In our opinion that is due to the huge, and deserved, prestige of Noob replicas.
Overall, Noob is making, for the most of replica lovers (ourselves included) the best replicas of the market.
Talking about PAM Luminor 44mm case-set, the Noob V3 (even previous versions), when their release, were the best cases of that model by far.
Due to this deserved prestige, many people have considered Noob case as the standard and reference to follow, forgetting that the standard and reference to follow was and will be the GEN watch.
Above commented distorts reality and leads us to wrong conclusions.

Analyzing comparisons and FIGURES in this Section, we can say that there is no perfect Luminor 44mm rep case but we are very close.
Both Noob and KW feature a very nice manufacture and finish, with clean and well defined edges. H maker is a lower level at this regard
Noob has proved small and consistent tolerances and we can expect the same from KW seeing the quality of its manufacture. H maker has not the same prestige regarding this matter.
From the middle to the bottom of the case we have an almost perfect case with Noob (it is the same in practice).
From the middle to the top of the case we have an almost perfect case with KW.
But the top of Noob case has less pronounced cushion shape and very fat and higher lugs. In the same way KW case is thinner at the bottom, because lower case profile ends, at the corners, a little higher than gen and due to that the lugs are thinner, besides the lug holes have wrong higher position.
H maker case actually is accurate in general shape, even in some aspects better than Noob and KW, but it is made a little sloopy in comparison with its competitors. We would like here to remark the importance of a good finish and care for little details. You can ruin a shape accurate case with a no perfect finish and withuot care of details, as it happens with H maker case. In the same way you can improve a no perfect shape accurate case applying a gen-like finish and care of details, as it happens with Noob and KW cases.

Klockis remarks: Noob have a gen approach when they construct their cases and they have better tolerances making a better fit than the other two factories.
To give an example: on all the Noob cases I have been working on (+20) there has only been one movement tab on each side securing the movement in the case.
On H maker (another good +30 watches ) there is almost always two movement tabs on one or both sides. Reason for this is that H maker cases have too high tolerances in the cases so the movement needs to be torqued down with more then one tab.
Just like the H maker my KW had two movement tabs on one side to secure the movement in the case but that is not conclusive since I have only been working with a few KW watches so far.
I could see right away from the first pic I saw of the KW that it had the lugs all wrong. Too thin and with the screw holes way off so that was no surprise.
But it was surprising to see that Noob lugs where quite far off as well. I have always considered them to be very close to gen, just a bit fat.
Evaluation: Noob=8 / KW=7 / Hmaker=7
ALE remarks: I was surprised for the differences found in Noob case. I thought it was more accurate in dimensions, despite Noob case is very nice and well finished.
KW case has not the lugs profile as inaccurate as some people say. Indeed KW lugs are inaccurate at bottom whereas Noob lugs are (even more) inaccurate at the top. Anyway Noob lugs are aesthetically nicer. Maybe the wrong position (higher) of KW lug screw holes contributes negatively in this regard.
All the lugs studied are slightly inaccurate in shape, but Noob case has the nicer lugs. Indeed KW and mainly H maker lugs are not as aesthetic as Noob in my opinion. Wrong position of lug screw holes of KW are also very noticeable. We can summarize that KW and H maker flaws are more evident and ugly.
I was surprised too for the general shape accuracy of H maker case. Unfortunately a little sloppy manufacture and a lack of care for details downgrades completely this accurate case. Therefore, H maker case has in my opinion lower and less consistent level in general.
Evaluation: Noob=8 / KW=7,5 / Hmaker=7




2- BEZEL
Below it is showed a table with the Bezel Technical terms that we will use in this review. FIGURE 2.A

FIGURE 2.A- BEZEL TECHNICAL TERMS

As you can see there are two transition edges where the bezel changes of shape.



2.1- Bezel Finish and appearance- Quality of polishing, brushing. Quality of appearance, look, edges definition, uniformity of surfaces… Leaving aside accuracy
This could be a controversial matter because of, in some way, KW and H maker bezels have better appearance and feel of quality than Noob, but they are less accurate than Noob bezel.
Bezel transition edges of KW and H maker are sharper than Noob which have more rounded edges like gen.This sharp edges gives to the bezel a special feel of clearness, definition or sharpness. That gives to KW and H maker very good appearance and quality look. FIGURE 2.1.A.

FIGURE 2.1.A- BEZEL FINISH AND APPEARANCE COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

We don’t think that is made intentionally by KW and H maker but their bezels looks really good and well finished.
We are not saying that Noob bezels are worse, indeed they are more accurate, but at first sight KW and H maker attract the attention and seem better.
All Luminor bezels have a service or prying notch @11 to help disassembling. KW and Noob bezels have a nice and well finished notch, see FIGURE 2.1.B, in contrast to H maker which has a long and bad finished notch @11.

FIGURE 2.1.B- BEZEL AND PRYING NOTCHES COMPARISON NOOB-KW-H MAKER

Anyway, as we can see in FIGURE 2.1 A. the finish is very good in all bezels and their appearance is first class

Klockis remarks: The bezel prying notch on the H-fac is really lack of craftsmanship. Looks to have been hacked out by a jigsaw and bring down a otherwise very good finished bezel.
Evaluation: Noob=8,5 / KW=9 / Hmaker=7
ALE remarks: Above mentioned is the reason due to I like so much the bezel of my H maker PAM390. Since in this Section we are evaluating the appearance, I will consider KW and H maker a little superior, even if Noob is more accurate. However, in accuracy Section Noob will be the clear winner. The notch finish gives also an idea of manufacture care.
Evaluation: Noob=8,5 / KW=9 / Hmaker=8



2.2- Visual and dimensional accuracy of Bezel- Accuracy of dimensions, shape, edges, texture, appearance….
In FIGURE 2.2.A is showed the comparison shape and dimensions of three bezels.
The shape and dimensionse are almost the same for all bezels and they are accurate enough to get no visual differences between gen and rep makers. You can see also that bezel are the same as gen in the FIGURES of last Section 2.1

FIGURE 2.2.A- BEZEL SHAPE AND DIMENSIONS COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

But the main difference is the upper and lower transition edges. As above commented gen and Noob bezels have rounded transition edges whereas KW and H maker have sharper edges.
To notice easily the sharpness of these transition edges we need just to observe the shape of the reflected image in the inclined plane of the bezel.
When the bezel has rounded edges the image is “S†shaped whereas if the bezel has shaper edges the image becomes “I†shaped, as showed in FIGURE 2.2.B

FIGURE 2.2.B- HOW TO DETECT THE SHARPNESS OR ROUNDNESS OF BEZEL TRANSITION EDGES

In FIGURE 2.2.C and the same in previous FIGURE 2.1.A you can see the differences on reflected images in each bezel.
You can see clearly the “S†shape in gen and Noob bezels and the “I†shape in KW and H maker bezels

FIGURE 2.2.C- BEZEL IMAGE REFLECTIONS COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

Therefore the clear winner in accuracy is Noob bezel with rounded transition edges just like gen ones. KW and H maker bezels, although they are nice, have not accurate transition edges.

Klockis remarks: No additional comments
Evaluation: Noob=9,5 / KW=7 / Hmaker=7
ALE remarks: As above commented Noob is the winner in accuracy. KW is almost the same as H maker but has more accurate prying notch.
Evaluation: Noob=9,5 / KW=7,5 / Hmaker=7



2.3- Fitting Bezel-Case- Precision of fitting bezel-case
All bezels have good fitting in general with the cases. See FIGURE 2.3.A
H maker has the best fitting bezel-case of the three with a very tight fit with no visible gap. Maybe because of the non-gen like construction (See next Section 3) which helps to get an easier approach bezel to case.
KW has a slight gap where some dark shadows can be seen. Invisible under naked eye.
Noob have a tight fit but the underside of the bezel is rounded just like the transition edges that makes it looks like it had a slight gap with dark shadow where it meets the case.

FIGURE 2.3.A- FITTING BEZEL-CASE COMPARISON NOOB-KW-H MAKER

Klockis remarks: No additional comments
Evaluation: Noob=8 / KW=7,5 / Hmaker=9
ALE remarks: No additional comments
Evaluation: Noob=8 / KW=7,5 / Hmaker=9




3- CONSTRUCTION STRUCTURE ACCURACY - Quality and accuracy of construction structure
In this Section we will analyze the construction structure of the case, how are assembled case, bezel and crown tube.


3.1- Case and bezel assembling- Case, bezel, gaskets assembling
Regarding assembling of bezel with the case, gen, Noob, and KW use a more complex an expensive system than H maker. As you can see in FIGURES 3.1.A & 3.1.B. Pics of KW case-set structure are kindly taken and give up by omgiv.

FIGURE 3.1.A- CASE STRUCTURE COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-H MAKER

FIGURE 3.1.B- CASE STRUCTURE OF KW REPLICAS (LIKE GEN and NOOB)

Gen, Noob and KW uses a conical ring turned above the case to put the gasket and then to insert by pressure the bezel over the case.
H maker has a cheaper system with flat case at the top and a complete different bezel section and gaskets to be inserted inside the case.
These systems of assembling were perfectly described by Angus in his thread:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/ultimate-pam111m-teardown-86121
Some pics of this Section are taken from that thread with Angu’s kind permission.

Bezel structure is conditioned by the case structure, therefore bezels from gen, Noob and KW are the same but completely different to H maker bezel, as we can see in FIGURE 3.1.C

FIGURE 3.1.C- BEZEL STRUCTURE COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

In below FIGURE 3.1.D is showed the structure of KW bezel exactly the same as gen and Noob.

FIFURE 3.1.D- KW BEZEL STRUCTURE- THE SAME AS GEN AND NOOB

Therefore, case and bezel construction structure are the same in gen, Noob and KW, whereas H maker is completely different and inaccurate.

Klockis remarks: This shows once again the care that Noob and now KW put into their manufacture and the shortcuts that H-fac make. Total different approaches.
Evaluation: Noob=8 / KW=8 / Hmaker=6
ALE remarks: Since the construction structure is not visible with the watch assembled, we can consider that the structure complete inaccuracy of H maker is not very serious to be completely discredited
Noob=9 / KW=9 / Hmaker=6



3.2- Crown tube assembling- Crown tube structure assembling the case.
We will see now the construction structure of crown tube and its assembling to the case.
Let us see FIGURE 3.2.A: In gen PAM LUMINOR case the crown tube is part of the case, and there is a nut which acts like tube adjuster. This structure is the same in Noob and KW watches.

FIGURE 3.2.A- CROWN TUBE CONSTRUCTION STRUCTURE GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

H maker again changes the system and uses a false nut attached wit a tube which act like crown tube, this element is inserted by pressure in a hole drilled in the case. This nut-tube cannot be adjusted but has the correct hexagonal shape and has an o-ring gasket like gen.

Gen, Noob and KW nut system allows a regulation of the nut adjuster that can be screwed in and out. This allows the crown to be adjusted as far from the case and tight against the CG lever as we want. They all have also an o-ring gasket.

Just like Noob the KW crown tube nut can be adjusted, but on two KW samples (Klockis and ALE) the threaded tube was too long so when the nut is completely screwed in, it will show the threaded part of the tube. FIGURE 3.2.B. That means that the nut can not be screwed all the way down and have to be loose on the tube witch will most likely means that it will screw either in or out by itself over time if not locked by Loctite

FIGURE 3.2.B- THE NUT ADJUSTED COMPLETELY SCREWED IN NOOB AND KW REPS

Klockis remarks: To construct a case with gen specs is one thing, but getting it right is another. KW makes a tube that are too long so the nut have to be loose on the tube is just asking for trouble.
I think we will have threads in the future asking why members KW crown don’t click into winding position since the nut will unscrew itself.
The H-fac false crown tube is more a fail proofed approach.
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=7,5 / Hmaker=6
ALE remarks: Since the construction structure is not visible with the watch assembled, we can consider that the crown tube inaccuracy of H maker is not very serious to be completely discredited
Noob=9 / KW=8,5 / Hmaker=6




4- CROWN GUARD
Below it is showed a table with the Crown Guard (CG) Technical terms that we will use in this review. FIGURE 4.A
It is important to read, identify and understand these terms in order to get appropriately below CG review and comments

FIGURE 4.A- CROWN GUARD (CG) TECHNICAL TERMS



4.1- CG Finish and appearance- Quality of polishing, brushing. Quality of appearance, look, edges definition, uniformity of surfaces… Leaving aside accuracy
All rep crown guards have good surface finish, but KW looks more uniform and nice, it seems more carefully made. Noob and H maker have similar surface finish. FIGURES 4.1.A & 4.1.B

FIGURE 4.1.A- GEN AND NOOB CROWN GUARD SURFACE FINISH

FIGURE 4.1.B- KW AND H MAKER CROWN GUARD SURFACE FINISH

In respect to edges sharpness Noob is the winner, because its inner edges and inner corners are nicely squared. KW edges and corners are almost square, and in practice are almost the same, but you can feel much precision in Noob CG. H maker edges and corners are completely rounded and ugly in comparison with KW and Noob. FIGURE 4.1.C
Regarding the hollow space to shelter the crown, in FIGURE 4.1.C you can see a inner good finish in Noob and KW CG, but H maker CG has a inner rough finish.

FIGURE 4.1.C- INNER EDGES & CORNERS AND INNER FINISH OF REPLICA CROWN GUARDS

Inside the hollow you can see usually the lever in Noob and H maker replicas, marked in orange in FIGURE 4.1.C. That doesn’t happen in gen and KW reps.
At the top of the CG, where the lever tip lies, there is a notch that we can see in FIGURE 4.1.C. This notch is well finished and defined in Noob CG, it has very bad finish in H maker CG and it is usually almost missing in KW replicas.

Klockis remarks: All three reps fail in getting the brushing perfect parallel and even, there is always some brushing that are a bit slanted.
Noob inner corners are almost always perfect square while KW is very close but I think they use the machines “file†to many times at the CG factory.
The first CG’s in a KW batch gets perfect square inner corners but later in the batch when the file starts to gets grinded down it produces a slight rounded corners.
While Noob’s CG factory change that “file†more often to maintain that good square corners.
That’s my personal unconfirmed wild theory anyway..
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=8 / Hmaker=6
ALE remarks: Noob CG has nice square inner edges and corners but KW has a better look and uniformity of surfaces, I must consider a close to equalized evaluation for Noob and KW, slightly superior for Noob. In respect to H maker CG it is clearly inferior with ugly edges and corners, the hollow has rough finish inside.
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=8,5 / Hmaker=6



4.2- Visual and dimensional accuracy of CG- Accuracy of dimensions, shape, edges, texture, appearance….
As you can see in FIGURES 4.2.A & 4.2.B the overall accuracy of shape, edges, texture and dimensions is very good for all replicas. Only H maker has differences due to the rounded edges, really noticeable in comparison with KW and mainly Noob, and thickness because it is thinner.

FIGURE 4.2.A- CROWN GUARD HORIZONTAL COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

FIGURE 4.2.B- CROWN GUARD VERTICAL COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

Noob has the CG PIN of the lever placed a little higher and KW has the same PIN a little displaced to the right side. It really is the same difference but KW flaw is more noticeable than Noob due to the references in Noob are more difficult to find. In KW you realize easily that the PIN is near the external edge of the CG.
In regards to the hollow to shelter the crown only H maker has a difference, because its height is a bit smaller. See FIGURE 4.2.B
We can also see in the profile pics that the top part of the KW CG is completely square while the Noob and H-fac have a slight chamfer, like gen CG. See FIGURE 4.3.A in next Section. That square transition to the vertical sides makes the KW CG look so sharp and “crisp†and is one of the parts that make the KW as a whole too feel so well finished.

Let’s now to analyze the CG shape accuracy and position of side view from 3 hrs.

FIGURE 4.2.C- CROWN GUARD SIDE VIEW FROM 3 hrs. - GEN-NOOB COMPARISON

As we can see in FIGURE 4.2.C Noob CG is perfectly placed in general. CG and lever are perfect regarding alignment and dimensions. It is very oddly that Noob CG has a thinner shape in the zone indicated with a green arrow on above FIGURE

FIGURE 4.2.D- CROWN GUARD SIDE VIEW FROM 3 hrs. - GEN-KW COMPARISON

As we can see in FIGURE 4.2.D KW CG is perfectly placed in general. CG and lever are perfect regarding alignment and dimensions.

FIGURE 4.2.E- CROWN GUARD SIDE VIEW FROM 3 hrs. - GEN-H MAKER COMPARISON

As we can see in FIGURE 4.2.E h maker CG is placed higher in general (see violet lines).
H maker CG is thinner about 0,4-0,5 mm. This height difference is very noticeable at the bottom. H maker lever is wider about 0,2-0,3 mm.

Klockis remarks: Both Noob and H-fac have a slight chamfered/rounded outer edge of the CG just like gen while KW have the outer edge perfect square. It does look “nicer†or better finished but it’s not the way the gen CG look with its rounded edge.
Also as pointed out the KW lever pin offset is more noticeable the Noobs offset due to the reference to the outer edge and I have factored in that in my grade as well.
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=7,5 / Hmaker=6
ALE remarks: In my opinion Noob is superior due to nice square edges and corners and because Noob issues are less noticeable than KW ones. H maker is clearly inferior.
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=8,5 / Hmaker=6,5



4.3- Fitting CG with case- Precision of fitting CG-case
The crownguard fitting to the case is good on all three. But with macro shots we can see that the Noob has the best fitting followed by KW and last H maker which has the worst fitting. See FIGURES 4.3.A & 4.3.B

FIGURE 4.3.A- FRONT FITTING CG-CASE COMPARISON NOOB-KW-H MAKER

FIGURE 4.3.B- BACK FITTING CG-CASE COMPARISON NOOB-KW-H MAKER

Klockis remarks: I’m amazed how they can get this near perfect fit for the dollars we are paying for these reps. Noob stands out with its smaller tolerances and excellent fitment.
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=8,5 / Hmaker=7
ALE remarks: Although H maker is a little worse the general level is very high. Nowadays the replicas are reaching great fitting in all components. In these CG we get similar fitting to the gen with much lower Price. Awesome job from KW and mainly Noob
Evaluation: Noob=9,5 / KW=9 / Hmaker=7,5




5- LEVER & ROLLER


5.1- Lever & Roller Finish and appearance- Quality of brushing. Quality of appearance, look, edges definition, uniformity of surfaces… Leaving aside accuracy
The same considerations as about crown guard, all levers have good surface finish, but KW looks more uniform and nice, it seems more carefully made. Noob and H maker have similar surface finish.
The support of the roller has better finish in Noob and KW CG, whereas it is a bit rough in H maker CG.
Therefore in this regard KW can get some advantage not having Noob of H maker any element to compensate better KW look. Bear in mind now we are no talking about accuracy just about finish and appearance.

Klockis remarks: No additional comments.
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=9 / Hmaker=8
ALE remarks: No additional comments.
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=9,5 / Hmaker=8,5


5.2- Visual and dimensional accuracy of Lever & Roller- Accuracy of dimensions, shape, edges, texture, appearance….
When the lever is closed there are two parts that can be seen:
- The roller support and the edges of the roller
- The external side of the lever with its tip
Since usually the lever is closed, these are the most important parts in relation to accuracy
The roller support of the lever can be seen inside the hollow to shelter the crown. Noob and H maker supports have wrong shape with more open angle, showed in FIGURE 5.2.A & 5.2.B

FIGURE 5.2.A- ROLLER SUPPORT POSITION AND SHAPE COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

The final position of both Noob and H maker roller supports surpass the gen final position parallel to the crown axle. You can see angle N in Noob support and angle H in H maker support, both are bigger than angle G in gen and KW. Besides the green line indicates how the support of Noob and H maker are surpassing the correct parallel line of gen and KW rep.
We don’t know why people don’t give importance to these issues, because the shape of the support is very evident inside the hollow, and usually contrast with the background. Noob roller support is actually bigger and surpassed.
Concerning roller support shape KW is almost perfect, as you can see in FIGURES 5.2.A & 5.2.B

FIGURE 5.2.B- ROLLER SUPPORT SHAPE COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

Roller shape is more difficult to see, and we can see only the contour. Noob and KW have very accurate roller like gen, while in contrast H maker roller is a bit bigger and has more cylindrical shape. Anyway this is few noticeable with the lever closed. See FIGURE 5.2.C

FIGURE 5.2.C- ROLLER SUPPORT SHAPE AND ROLLER PIN COMPARISON NOOB-KW-H MAKER

The roller PIN as you can see in above FIGURE 5.2.C is quite accurate in Noob, is a bit thin in KW and completely wrong in shape, finish and size in H maker rep.

In FIGURE 5.2.D we can see the comparison of external side of the lever in the four watches. The finish surface and shape of all them is very similar to the gen.

FIGURE 5.2.D- LEVER EXTERNAL SIDE COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

As it is showed in FIGURE 5.2.D the levers of NOOB and KW replicas are well placed and have correct dimensions. Only the lever of H maker is placed higher and it is wider than gen, Noob and KW levers.

There are some differences in the shape of the lever “elbowâ€, around the CG PIN, which is a noticeable part due to it is very near the notch of the CG and the differences are more evident.

FIGURE 5.2.E- LEVER “ELBOW†AROUND THE CG PIN - COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

In above FIGURE 5.2.E are showed all rep lever “elbows†in comparison with the gen.
The closer lever “elbow†is Noob which gets a shape almost the same as gen. Anyway Noob lever seems to be a little displaced to the right side, most likely due to Noob CG PIN of the lever is also a bit displaced in this direction, as we saw in Section 4.2.
H maker has similar shape but the lever is more filed and, therefore, the wall of the lever is smaller in this zone. Besides H maker shape is uneven and changes from the top to the bottom, as you can see by the non parallel reflections indicated by a blue arrow on above pics. It is noticeable a bigger radius at the bottom and a sharper corner at the top. As seen in previous Sections this is not the only inequality in H maker case-set.
KW lever has a nice finish but the “elbow†is not formed with a continuous radius, but an almost straight zone (inside the CG) before the “elbow†angle and then a sharper corner.

The shape and position of the lever tip, see FIGURE 5.2.F, is very important because users must handle the lever pulling the tip and, sooner or latter, we will realize its shape and placement.

FIGURE 5.2.F- SHAPE AND FINAL POSITION OF THE LEVER TIP COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

When the lever is closed, Noob and H maker reps have the lever tip in a placement close to the case, the same as gen position, as opposed to KW lever tip which is placed a bit detached from the case. See FIGURE 5.2.F

Below we will analyze the general shape of the lever. We will start seeing in FIGURE 5.2.G the shape of four levers in open position.

FIGURE 5.2.G- OPEN LEVER SHAPE COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

Now we will mark the lever contours and shapes to get coloured silhouettes in order to make comparisons. You can see in FIGURE 5.2.H the coloured silhouettes of all levers, gen and reps. Black-white form for the gen and violet silhouettes for the three reps.

FIGURE 5.2.H- CLOSED LEVER CONTOUR AND SHAPE COLOURED FOR COMPARISON PURPOSES

With above silhouettes we have made the respective gen-rep comparisons as we can observe in below FIGURE 5.2.I

FIGURE 5.2.I- LEVER SHAPE COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

Noob lever:
-Similar lever TIP shape, but its slope is more open than gen and falls towards the case
-Lever arm is clearly fatter than gen
-Roller support is completely wrong with very big angle and different position of the roller PIN
-Lever PIN is placed a bit higher
-Lever “elbow†is almost like the gen and nicely made.

KW lever:
-Wrong TIP shape and position. The lever is a bit shorter and the TIP has bad position. For this reason the KW TIP remains, when the levers is closed, clearly detached from the case. Unfortunately this is a noticeable flaw which ruins the most accurate in shape of the rep levers studied.
-Lever arm has the same thickness and shape as gen
-Roller support is almost like gen, even with correct position of the roller PIN
-Lever PIN is placed a bit outwards.
-Lever “elbow†has sharper shape and after that starts an almost flat surface inside the CG, towards the roller support.

H maker lever:
-Similar lever TIP shape with correct slope but a bit longer and different point shape.
-Lever arm starts at the top almost correctly but gets a great thickness descending to the bottom.
-Roller support, like Noob lever, is wrong with bigger angle and different position of the roller PIN
-Lever PIN position is almost perfect
-Lever “elbow†is a bit more rounded than gen and is uneven, with different shape and radius. See previous FIGURE 5.2.E.

Klockis remarks: One thing that always have bugged me on Noob and H-fac Panerai reps is the visible lever inside the CG. KW solves that issue with a great lever and roller support. Unfortunate the lever tip and elbow don’t match up.
All 3 levers have their strong points but all have failed in other areas.
Evaluation: Noob=7 / KW=7 / Hmaker=6
ALE remarks: The most accurate lever is in general KW lever. Unfortunately KW lever has a very noticeable lever tip detached from the case and a wrong lever “elbowâ€. Noob has a noticeable wrong roller support. H maker is inferior in general and uneven. Although KW has better accuracy than Noob and H maker, its external and noticeable flaws, like detached TIP and wrong “elbowâ€, cause a downgrading of KW lever evaluation.
Evaluation: Noob=7 / KW=7 / Hmaker=6,5



5.3- CG PIN of lever- Shape, finish, position and accuracy of CG PIN of the lever
This is a little element of the CG but, since it is polished, it contrasts with the brushed surface of the CG and gets importance in the evaluation of a Luminor case-set.
Lately makers are considering this PIN and have made some improvements with respect to old replicas.
This lever PIN must have the end at the top flat and polished and, concerning position, it must be placed a bit recessed from the top surface of the CG. See FIGURE 5.3.A

FIGURE 5.3.A- THE CG PIN OF THE LEVER COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

In current Luminor case-sets the best lever PIN is from KW which has got an almost perfect PIN in shape, finish and position. KW PIN is flat, polished and a bit recessed, just like gen.
Noob top end is not as flat as KW (Noob has rounded contours at the top), it is polished but is usually placed flush or a bit raised.
H maker is wrong, flush and bad polished in comparison

Klockis remarks: No additional comments
Evaluation: Noob=7 / KW=9 / Hmaker=6
ALE remarks: No additional comments
Evaluation: Noob=7 / KW=9,5 / Hmaker=6



5.4- Fitting of Lever with CG- Lever fitting with Crown Guard
Noob shines once again with a lever that fits perfect in the Crown guard.
Both KW and H-fac have no perfect fitting both in the horizontal fit as well as vertical where the lever protrudes from the CG. See FIGURE 5.4.A.

FIGURE 5.4.A- FITTING LEVER-CROWN GUARD COMPARISON NOOB-KW-H MAKER

Anyway this fitting lever-CG is very variable and undergoes many changes between watches even of the same batch.

Klockis remarks: I blame bad tolerances for the lever fitting on the H maker and I think that maybe the CG PIN rubber gasket is too much soft on the KW and that’s why it don’t have that 100% vertical fitment you get on the Noob.
But having worked on lots of Noob and H maker watches I know that these will vary quite a lot between watches.
The Noob in the pic is my personal 111N and I have gone through at least 10 CG’s to find me a perfect one as in the pics.
Evaluation: Noob=9,5 / KW=8 / Hmaker=7
ALE remarks: This is a very variable feature and experiences many changes between different units. However, in my experience, Noob has better fitting in general, H maker gets the worst fitting and the two watches of KW 417 which I have seen were one similar to indicated in the pics and my own KW 417 which is almost perfect. Anyway the pics from Klockis are clear and I agree with him about maybe the KW softer rubber gasket of the CG PIN produces these vertical deviations, although to get a smoother working.
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=8,5 / Hmaker=7


5.5- Lever Operation, smoothness and reliability - Operation smoothness and reliability of lever lock function.
This is another controversial matter, because some people like a stronger snap closing the lever whereas other people like a smoother operation.
We have realized, through Klockis disassembling, that nowadays the three rep models studied are fitted with a rubber gasket in the CG lever PIN. As we can see in FIGURE 5.5.A.

FIGURE 5.5.A- THE RUUBBER GASKET IN CG LEVER PIN NOB-KW-H MAKER

It is very curious that H maker has a semi-gasket, because it is fitted with gasket from the top to the middle, whereas from the middle to the bottom the diameter of the hole gets reduced and there is no gasket, as you can see in above pic. Maybe for this reason the H maker lever is a little wobbly when it is open.

Since there are a lot of variations between replica batches, the rubber gasket will be able to adsorb the dimensional tolerances, even in gen watches. But there are some variations in the rubber hardness of the gaskets. Noob and H maker have harder rubber and KW has a softer material and allows a smoother operation.

We should not confuse strong snap with reliability. The reliability of the lever operation consists in pressing appropriately the crown against the case. Noob and H maker levers get strong snap, because the CG PIN of their levers is fitted with a too hard rubber gasket. Noob or H maker lever get strong snap to press appropriately the crown.
But in KW watches CG Pin is fitted with a softer rubber gasket and, therefore, the lever roller can press appropriately the crown against the case without needing a strong snap. We can get with KW device smoother and more uniform operation with the same reliability.
In the same way KW get a more uniform working between batches due to the softness of the gasket.
Due to this softness, in some watches, KW lever gets some outwards displacements which affect the fitting lever-CG as we have seen in previous Section 5.4.

Really the gen is between KW and the others. Gen usually has an operation closer to KW but stronger, and softer and more uniform than Noob and H maker.

Therefore, what is better?
It is a taste matter. Some people will like the smother, reliable and more uniform KW operation although the little snap. And some people will like the strong snap and seemingly more reliable Noob and H maker operation, although these models will always have less uniform working.

Klockis remarks: I’m one of those people that like a sturdy snap when I close my lever so for me the Noob takes this round. H-fac wobbly lever leaves much to desire.
Evaluation: Noob=8 / KW=7 / Hmaker=6
ALE remarks: For people liking snap I would say that the most important is the reliability pressing the crown against the case. This is got easily, with smoother working and more uniform with the softer rubber gasket of KW PIN. Anyway I would like a bit harder KW gasket and a bit stronger KW lever operation. H maker lever is more downgraded due to its wobbly movement.
Evaluation: Noob=6/ KW=7 / Hmaker=5




6-CROWN


6.1- Crown Finish and appearance- Quality of polishing, brushing. Quality of appearance, look, edges definition, uniformity of surfaces… Leaving aside accuracy

The rep crown has not the quality of polishing that we can see in a gen crown. But they are good enough. In regards to appearance and finish all rep crown are almost the same and a little worse than gen. Only H maker crown has a noticeable and very bad inner dish finish, as you can see in below FIGURE 6.2.C.

Klockis remarks: None of the crown is up to gen standard and H-fac sticks out with a little rough finish on the dish.
Evaluation: Noob=7 / KW=7 / Hmaker=6
ALE remarks: No additional comments
Evaluation: Noob=7 / KW=7 / Hmaker=6



6.2- Visual and dimensional accuracy of Crown- Accuracy of dimensions, shape, edges, texture, appearance….
Gen, Noob, H maker and KW crown uses the same stem/crown hexagon inserts. All reps also have spring loaded crowns just like gen. See FIGURE 6.2.A

FIGURE 6.2.A- STEM-CROWN DEVICE OF MANUAL LUMINOR REPLICAS

The teethed external surface of the crown has chamfered at the edges as we can see in FUGURE 6.2.B. All replicas have similar teethed surface and worse polished than gen. The chamfered is smaller in H maker, whereas Noob and KW chamfered is very similar to the gen.

FIGURE 6.2.B- EXTERNAL CROWN THEETHED SURFACE

The biggest difference between rep crowns is the thickness of the rim as we can see in FIGURE 6.2.C. We can observe “slim†crowns like gen, Kw and H maker and “fat†crown like Noob.

FIGURE 6.2.C- THE RIM THICKNESS IN CROWNS – COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

Seeing the comparison with the gen crown, the most accurate is KW which is almost the same than gen, then follows H maker and the last and worse is the “fat†Noob crown.
Noob has already “slim†crowns because they have fitted PAM 360 Noob with “slim†crown and the new release PAM 390 Noob seems fitted with “slim†crown too. Therefore we should expect “slim†crowns in all watches from Noob when the old stocks of “fat†crowns are finished.

Klockis remarks: All crowns are spring loaded and have a gen like construction and to my surprise H-fac have also started to use hexagon inserts (they used to be round in earlier releases). Unfortunate the thick rim on the Noob ruins an otherwise very good crown.
Evaluation: Noob=6 / KW=8 / Hmaker=7
ALE remarks: No additional comments
Evaluation: Noob=6 / KW=8,5 / Hmaker=7




7-SCREWS- Quality, fitting and accuracy of screws

Screws features are really uneven between replicas, foremost talking about lug screws. It is almost impossible to take definitive conclusion about this matter, because studied replicas are really uneven in this regard.
Some screws are correct but others have differences even in the same watch. Therefore it is not worth doing a deeper study about quality and accuracy of rep screws.
Usually the tips of the lug screws are both recessed, but there are screws flush in a tip and raised or usually recessed in opposite.
Noob and KW lug screws seem more flush in general, but we can find many exceptions and. We have even found several KW lug screws with the notch off-center and polished tips but rough inner cylindrical surface.
Noob lug screws seem slightly better overall.
Screws of the CG are very similar to the gen in all replicas, mainly in Noob and KW, because H maker screws have some little differences as we can see in Angus Review previously mentioned, but assembled in the watch these flaws are actually not noticeable. Overall, we can consider that rep CG screws are accurate.

Klockis remarks: No additional comments
Evaluation: Noob=6,5 / KW=6 / Hmaker=5,5
ALE remarks: No additional comments
Evaluation: Noob=6,5 / KW=6 / Hmaker=5,5





CRYSTAL & CASEBACK REVIEW



8- CRYSTAL
Below you can see in FIGURE 2.A the Technical terms used in this crystal review

FIGURE 8.A- CRYSTAL TECHNICAL TERMS



8.1- Crystal Material, transparency, finish of bevel, AR –General quality, leaving aside accuracy.
All crystals are high quality sapphire glass, with good quality single inner AR layer.
Usually gen Luminor are colourless, but some models, like Boutique, have a faint coloured hue (violet hue in Boutique models).
Rep crystals reviewed are: colourless in H maker, violet in KW (because it is a Boutique model), and very slightly yellowish in Noob
All crystals are nicely bevelled with different shapes as we will see below.

Klockis remarks: As for the crystals clarity, KW seems to have found a good crystal supplier since their crystals seems to have more clarity. (Not only 44mm but also KW’s 1950 line have great crystals)
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=9 / Hmaker=8
ALE remarks: All crystals are very good, but in my opinion KW crystal has a more gen–like appearance.
Evaluation: Noob=8,5 / KW=9 / Hmaker=8,5



8.2- Visual accuracy of crystal- Accuracy of shape, dimensions, bevelled, placement……leaving aside AR.
Gen PAM crystals are raised from the top of the bezel. As showed in FIGURE 8.A, outside the case, over the bezel upper side, there are a bevelled edge (polished), at the top of the crystal and a raised vertical side (non polished).
In FIGURE 8.2.A you can see this bevelled edge of PAM Boutique gen crystal and the raised vertical side.

FIGURE 8.2.A- GEN CRYSTAL BEVELLED EDGE OF LUMINOR PAM

The same bevelled edge in replicas can be seen in below FIGURE 8.2.B

FIGURE 8.2.B- REP CRYSTAL OF LUMINOR PAM

In FIGURE 8.2.C is showed the comparison pics of gen-Noob-KW-H maker crystal bevels.
Bear in mind that gen crystal placement and bevelled is much more consistent and there are few changes between different watches. In the case of reps the variations between batches are very frequent either in bevel size-shape or in total height of raised part.

FIGURE 8.2.C- CRYSTAL BEVELLED EDGE COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-KW-H MAKER

Noob crystal has the biggest bevel size and correct raised vertical side. It is the more raised crystal and the more inaccurate in regards to bevelled edge.
KW crystal has very similar bevel size and a bit higher raised vertical side, we can say that KW crystal seems usually a bit more raised than gen but very accurate in bevelled edge shape.
H maker bevelled edge is between KW and Noob. It seems usually less accurate at this regard than KW but better than Noob.

Below in FIGURE 8.2.D you can see the difference between the raised parts of crystals from Noob, KW and H maker reps.
Note this sample of H maker has very small raised vertical side and big bevel size. Usually these H maker crystal bevelled edges are more accurate than showed in pic.

FIGURE 8.2.D- CRYSTAL BEVELLED EDGE COMPARISON NOOB-KW-H MAKER

As you can see KW crystal has a clearly better bevelled edge shape, more like gen, than H maker crystal, and both are better than Noob. KW shape seems more consistent, but there are few KW watches in the market to assure it.

Klockis remarks: No additional comments.
Evaluation: Noob=6 / KW=8 / Hmaker=7
ALE remarks: KW crystal as above showed has a bevelled edge almost the same as gen. Therefore KW crystal accuracy in my opinion is better than H maker and Noob.
Evaluation: Noob=6,5 / KW=9 / Hmaker=7



8.3- AR quality and accuracy-
Regarding AR three rep makers have good quality inner side single layer AR, they get the same AR effect in practice, slightly worse in Noob. See comparisons in FIGURES 8.3.A, 8.3.B & 8.3.C

FIGURE8.3.A- AR EFFECT COMPARISON NOOB-KW

FIGURE8.3.B- AR EFFECT COMPARISON NOOB-H MAKER

FIGURE8.3.C- AR EFFECT COMPARISON KW-H MAKER

We will discuss now about a polemic subject: AR colour in PAM Luminor
As you can see in below FIGURE 8.3.D, Noob has a faint yellowish colour, KW AR has a Violet hue, and H maker has a faint Blue hue. Many people prefer colourless AR, but, if the gen is AR coloured, replica should be AR coloured in the same way.

FIGURE 8.3.D- AR COLOUR IN NOOB, KW AND H MAKER CRYSTALS

Usually gen PAM Luminor crystals have colourless AR, therefore H maker would be the more accurate followed by yellowish Noob.
But concerning a Luminor PAM Boutique, some information about gen watch and mainly a gen Video published in RWI:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXN2pPgs4ls
shows that gen PAM Boutique is fitted with a coloured AR crystal between Blue, purple or violet, very near to KW Boutique AR colour and similar to H maker blue hue.
Therefore for a PAM Boutique this KW AR coloured crystal is more accurate in shape and AR colour, after KW we will have H maker cristal and then Noob crystal.
Klockis's KW 390 as well as KW 360 (the new one) have real coloured AR on their crystals with lots of blue colour. Not just hue or secondary reflection like the 417, but blue like Hublot Big Bang V6 use to have, as we can see in below FIGURE 8.3.E. However ALE's sample of PAM 390 has a blue-violet hue in second reflection slightly stronger than PAM Boutique cristal but not at all like HBB V6.
Therefore, we can see that KW uses different AR factories, or even different crystal factories, with different results.

FIGURE 8.3.E- KW PAM 390 BLUE COLOURED CRYSTAL AR FROM KLOCKIS PAM 390

The only true colourless rep crystal we have seen is the legendary H-factory 005K V1. That was one of the best AR in Panerai rep history.
But maybe H maker changed their supplier for the second batch of 005K that got the name 005K V2. From that moment H maker crystal ARs have had slight blue secondary reflection.
The closest to colourless AR we have today is Noob crystals with their slight yellow hue, that’s near colourless. But Noob has other problems with their crystals like too large bevel.
It will be very hard or impossible to score in this section because it depends on what model we are looking at.
If we look at the 417 then KW will get a high evaluation but if we look at the 390 then KW will get a low score.
And if you want to use parts from different factories to build a perfect, lets say 111, then the KW 417 crystal will only get a middle evaluation, since it’s the wrong AR colour for that model.
The Noob and H maker AR are very good but the Noob crystals have the upper hand in our opinion, since we prefer colourless AR and Noob are near colourless.
Therefore we would need to divide the score in two types of replicas:
- Coloured AR type
- Colourless AR type

Evaluation for coloured AR type. For example PAM Boutique:
Klockis remarks: No additional comments.
Evaluation: Noob=7 / KW=9 / Hmaker=8
ALE remarks: I consider the KW AR for Boutique series almost perfect, then H maker and last Noob
Evaluation: Noob=6 / KW=9,5 / Hmaker=7,5

Evaluation for colourless AR type.
Klockis remarks: This is my personal opinion but I really prefer “colourless†AR and the slight yellow hue on the Noob is the best/closest to colourless in this regard.
Most of the time none of the crystal shows any colour on the AR.
The colours we talk about here can mostly be seen in the secondary reflections if you hold the watch up to a light source in a specific angle.
But there seems like KW have two suppliers of AR and one of them is quite blue (think early DSN). So my advice would be to look out for it in QC.
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=4 / Hmaker=8
ALE remarks: In colourless AR I have not seen good 44mm Luminor crystals from KW
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=5 / Hmaker=8




9-CASEBACK


9.1- CB Finish and appearance- Quality of polishing, brushing. Quality of appearance, look, edges definition, uniformity of surface, engravings… Leaving aside accuracy.
Rep casebacks have very good finísh in general, but Noob and KW casebacks are specially well finished and with well defined, sharp, deep and crisp engravings. At this regard they are superior in comparison with H maker.
Regarding KW casebacks we are talking about the last KW casebacks fitting Boutique and PAM 390 last version.
We can see good examples in below FIGURES 9.1.A, 9.1.B & 9.1.C

FIGURE9.1.A- KW PAM 417 & NOOB PAM “FU†CASEBACKS (pic from s3g0y)

FIGURE9.1.B- NOOB V3 DISPLAY CASEBACK

FIGURE9.1.C - KW CASEBACK PAM BOUTIQUE BEVERLY HILLS & FIRENZE


Klockis remarks: Noob used to have shallow laser engraved serial number on their CB but with the V3 case-set they have it more deeply engraved even if I have seen some reports of V3 owners still getting shallow S/N. But Noob always had a great finish of their CB.
KW made a homerun with their latest Boutique CB with crisp and deep engraving all around.
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=9 / Hmaker=7
ALE remarks: Noob has always made very good solid and display casebacks, but the last solid Luminor casebacks from KW are awesome regarding quality, sharpness and depth of engravings. H maker casebacks are a step back.
Evaluation: Noob=9,5 / KW=9,5 / Hmaker=7



9.2- Visual and dimensional accuracy of CB- Accuracy of dimensions, shape, edges, texture, engravings, appearance….
In general all casebacks from Noob and last releases from KW have a great accuracy in comparison to gen ones. H maker casebacks are in general inferior.
Noob usually make fantastic casebacks either display or solid. KW nowadays is making awesome solid casebacks, and they are making very good display casebacks for 1950 type cases.
Noob and KW casebacks have deep and crisp well defined engravings and fonts are accurate in comparison to the gen.

In FIGURE 9.2.A you can see a comparison (pics extracted from Puretime cases review. With the kind permission of Angus) between display caseback engravings of gen, Noob and H maker. At the top “OFFICINE PANERAI†inscription. At the middle “OP 6727†and “SS†engravings. At the bottom inner inscription “SWISS MADEâ€. All inscriptions are more accurate in placement, fonts and depth in Noob caseback. The differences can be seen in below FIGURE. No possibilities of doubt: Noob caseback is clearly superior in all aspects.

FIGURE 9.2.A - DISPLAY CASEBACK COMPARISON GEN-NOOB-H MAKER

With regard to solid casebacks we have now the possibility of a comparison of a caseback from the three makers. It is the PAM 390 caseback.
You can see in FIGUREs 9.2.B the comparison between Noob and KW and in FIGURE 9.2.C the comparison between KW and H maker in respect to PAM 390 caseback

FIGURE9.2.B - CASEBACK PAM 390 COMPARISON NOOB-KW

FIGURE 9.2.C - CASEBACK PAM 390 COMPARISON KW-HMAKER

In these caseback comparisons we can see that Noob and KW have made a very good job with accurate, crisp and deep engravings. KW depth and sharpness is awesome. H maker have a little less quality in comparison but it is also very good.

Another interesting caseback is PAM Boutique Special Editions. We have H maker and KW versions.
The job of KW in these casebacks is impressive, it has got a caseback very close to gen as showed in below FIGURE 9.2.D

FIGURE 9.2.D- PAM 417 CASEBACK COMPARISON GEN-KW

In this caseback the superiority of KW is undeniable.

FIGURE 9.2.E- PAM BOUTIQUE CUSTOM ENGRAVING COMPARISON KW-H MAKER

As we can see in FIGURE 9.2.E the difference in depth and accuracy of fonts is evident.
In FIGURES 9.2.F & 9.2.G you can see the comparison between KW and H maker with the gen caseback.

FIGURE 9.2.F- REGULAR ENGRAVINGS IN PAM 417 CASEBACK, COMPARISON GEN-KW

FIGURE 9.2.G- REGULAR ENGRAVINGS IN PAM 417 CASEBACK, COMPARISON GEN-H MAKER

Pics speak by themselves, KW engravings are deeper, sharper, cleaner and more accurate. KW Boutique caseback is way better than H maker.

Concerning inner caseback engraving “SWISS MADE†you can observe in FIGURE 9.2.H that Noob and H maker have laser etched engravings whereas KW has nicely stamped “SWISS MADE†letters like gen watch.
Noob in the past had stamped “SWISS MADE†and now has strangely changed to laser etched inscription.

FIGURE 9.2.H - INNER CASEBACK ENGRAVINGS, COMPARISON NOOB-KW-H MAKER

Klockis remarks: Its really hard to make a useful score in this section since there are so many variations of CB.
If we talk about display CB I prefer Noob since they use genuine sapphire while H maker uses mineral crystals.
H maker has made some great closed CB but they usually have problem with their fonts.
The latest KW casebacks for 390 and 41X PAM Boutique look awesome.
My advice would be to compare CB of the pa rticular model you want to buy with the gen and make your own decision who makes the best one for that model.
As for the “SWISS MADE†on the inside I don’t understand why Noob have it laser engraved in their latest releases when they got it right before. But like it usually is in the rep game: two steps forward and one back..
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=9 / Hmaker=7
ALE remarks: I’m here evaluating the casebacks of each maker in general. But bear in mind that we could get many variations between models. You would have to compare all options in each concrete model of replica.
Great job from KW in PAM 390 and Boutique, really close to gen, with nice inner engravings, but awesome job from Noob in all types of casebacks, it is really praiseworthy. H maker casebacks are a step down in comparison.
I would prefer Noob for display casebackas and KW for solid casebacks, being H maker far of them.
Evaluation: Noob=9 / KW=9 / Hmaker=7



******************************************************************************



EVALUATION TABLE OF PAM LUMINOR 44mm CASE-SETS

We will summarize below all evaluations above given and will put them together in four Tables

Following above evaluations you can see that, from our point of view (Klockis & ALE), Noob and KW Case-sets and casebacks are very similar in overall quality, with a bit of advantage in average score for Noob, whereas H maker is clearly inferior.
Regarding crystals, Noob are superior in colourless crystal whereas KW is superior for coloured AR crystals. H maker has a good crystal for all purposes.

Bear in mind that Noob seem to have introduced some improvements in last releases, improving the crown to “slim†one, maybe a better lever and lever roller support and changing the bevelled in crystals to more gen like. All above improvements to be confirmed.

We have also seen in RWI pics of some KW cases with the lugs screw holes in good position, but that can be differences between batches.

These improvements will change the total evaluations accordingly

Custom Evaluations:
Regarding evaluations contained in this review, although they are established after a carefully study and analysis, we must say they get some charge of subjectivity. Anyway following the Sections of this review, taking data from the pics and comments and using an evaluation table similar to above included, you will be able to get your OWN evaluation of the case-set you wish. Therefore, if you don’t agree with our evaluations in a whole or with some of them, please feel free to make your OWN evaluation by yourself, following your OWN criteria and taste. This is another purpose of this review: to provide the necessary data to evaluate a PAM Luminor 44mm case-set




CONCLUSIONS


- Klockis conclusions:
For me it’s a good thing that we don’t have perfect 1:1 replicas since then the fun will stop in my opinion.
There would be nothing to discuss, improve or modify.
The way reps are today we are never finished, that’s what’s makes it so fun with this hobby.
With a gen you are pretty much done and have reached your goal once you get out of the AD door with your new watch but with reps that’s when the fun begins.

After all this analyzing its clear to me that you will not be able to build a perfect 1:1 with parts from these 3 makers without re-shaping the case, re-do AR, add gen parts and so on.
One maker has a great crystal but the AR color is off.
Another maker has a CG body that is very good but the lever sucks.
You can improve a rep Panerai by mix and match parts from different makers to a certain extent and maybe get 5% closer to gen but without evolutions from the makers you can only do so much.
I hope that threads like this and other members who point out flaws (and praise the good things of course) will get the makers attention to update their products.
Noob for instance just need to make some small changes to the case to make it perfect. They have changed case design in the past (after the 111J) so it can be done.
The same goes for KW where the lugs are the most obvious issue.

Let me just take this opportunity to say that I don’t understand why some members see a “new†(*) maker with so much skepticism.
For me competition is good, not just in rep industry but also in all business as well as in life. Competition makes products evolve and be better and better and makes people to be on their toes to be better then their competition.
I might don’t like the competing product but I welcome the completion itself.
(*)-Kuvarsit have done Panerai watches in the past as well. They did the 360 V2 a couple of years ago and the first 386. They also collaborated with Angus to make the V1’s of the 312,359,320,351 if I remember correctly.

If I could dream up a perfect 1:1 44mm Panerai rep from all 3 makers available today it would look something like this (all IMHO of course):
KW crystal with Noob AR, or better yet H-fac 005K V1 AR.
Noob CG/lever with KW lever pin and rollerball support and H-fac lever pin placement.
H-fac midcase with KW finish and top of the KW lugs and H-fac bottom part of the lugs.
Noob bezel.
Noob crown with KW thin rim.
Noob movement with some refinements to the swan neck, incabloc, swiss winding gears.
H-fac sausage dial with KW lume application and printed text.
or
Noob sandwich dials.
Noob CB with KW engravings and finish.
All put together with Noob’s attention to details and their great tolerances.
Top it of with KW finish.

But until that happen I will continue to enjoy reps for what they are:
90% of their gen counterparts for 5% of their price.
Rep forum is also a great way to meet new friends, get way too nerdy about the smallest details, learn new things and a way to feed my OCD..

Lastly please remember:
These are our score and views on these reps.
You might have a different view and have other aspects that matter more or less then what we have covered here.
Then please use this review and turn it into something YOU can use. All the tools and pics are here.
The things we say in the review are not nessesary true to what your think, this is just our conclusions.


- ALE Conclusions
Even though the awesome level achieved on current manufacture of replica PAM LUMINOR 44mm case-sets, which are among the best of replicas market, I have got impressed, to be honest, by the observed differences in comparison to the gen.
We have seen there is no almost perfect rep case, because they all have some “noticeable†flaws.
That shows that everything is not done yet and there is still some way to go. And this is good for our hobby.

I know that many conclusions of this review are somehow different to some people thoughts or opinions. As commented in above Section 1.2.3, this is due to people are considering Noob V3 as the standard of reference to follow instead of GEN watch. That happens for the huge, and deserved, prestige of Noob replicas.

Three case-sets have pros and cons and I will try to summarize below my opinions:

Noob Pros
-Consolidated and trusted maker with small tolerances, good finish, perfect fitting and consistency of qualities demonstrated over time.
-Probably the nicest aesthetically case shape.
-Accurate Bezel
-Construction structure like gen
-Nice CG with almost perfect square inner edges and corners very gen-like
-Good crystal for colourless models
-Nice and accurate casebacks
Noob Cons
-Inaccuracies at the top of the case: less pronounced cushion shape and fatter lugs at the top. With some ripples in the case over the lugs.
-Very noticeable wrong lever roller support
-CG lever PIN hole placed a bit higher
-Noticeable wrong “fat†crown
-Wider crystal bevel
-Wrong AR colour in coloured models

KW Pros
-"New" supplier to be considered, with some different points of view and ideas and very good developments and attainments, to be consolidate in the future. (KW really is already a known maker, but lately has started a new way producing very high level replicas)
-Awesome finish and fitting. Very gen-like appearance (but we have no experience about the maintenance of these qualities over time)
-Nice bezel
-Construction structure like gen
-Nice finish in CG
-Square inner edges and corners are good but clearly inferior in comparison with Noob precision
-Smoother lever working due to a softer rubber gasket
-Almost perfect “slim†crown
-Accurate crystal bevelled
-High quality crystal, with accurate AR colour in coloured models
-Nice and accurate casebacks
KW Cons
-Supplier to be consolidated. KW will have to prove and keep the good results and consistency in the future.
-Inaccuracies at the bottom of the case (thinner) and thinner lugs at the bottom.
-Very noticeable higher position of lug screw holes
-Square CG inner edges and corners are not as perfect as Noob
-Lever shape and roller support are accurate, but very noticeable wrong lever TIP which is placed detached from the case.
-CG lever PIN hole placed a bit outwards
-Wrong AR colour in colourless models

H maker Pros
-Consolidated and trusted maker
-Nice bezel and case shape accuracy (just shape, no general appearance, because it has no care for important details)
-Almost correct “slim†crown, better than Noob but worse than KW
-More accurate crystal bevelled than Noob but worse than KW
-Good cristal for colourless models
H maker Cons
-H maker doesn’t achieve in this PAM case-sets the level of precision, tolerances, finish, accuracy, fitting, sharp and defined edges and consistency of two other makers
-H maker case-set doesn’t have construction structure like gen
-Lugs shape is ugly, with tips rounded like an eagle beak
-Finish, accuracy, fitting of CG are clearly inferior to other makers
-Wrong lever roller support shape, but better than Noob.
-Square inner edges and corners are very bad, regarding nowadays manufacture level
-Wobbly lever
-Worse casebacks in comparison with competitors.

Improvements: There are some improvements that maker should include in order to get better case-sets:
Noob: Change of lever, making correct roller support. Change of crown to “slim†one. Change of bevelled in crystal. Using AR coloured in models with coloured crystal.
In last Noob releases it seems that Noob has already introduced a correct “slim†Crown, maybe a better lever and lever roller support and even a well bevelled crystal. To be confirmed.
Noob cannot increase directly the case cushion shape, because its lugs are fatter at the top and, therefore, there is no room to descend the cushion shape without getting the top of the lugs. See FIGURES 1.2.3.B & 1.2.3.C. Noob would need to introduce some changes in the case before machining.
KW: Change of position of the lug screw holes. Change of lever with a corrected TIP closer to the case and CG lever PIN hole in good position. Improve finish and definition of CG square inner edges and corners. Using colourless crystals in models with this AR type.
KW should to consider improving the lower shape of its case in order to get more accurate shape of case and almost perfect lug shape. The same as Noob KW would need change its case before machining.
With above mentioned possible changes KW case-set would be close to perfect.
H maker: This maker should change many things in its manufacturing process to get the qualities of competitors. Because, despite its shape accuracy, H maker has structural flaws and inconsistency of results with no small tolerances and ugly CG for modern standards. Therefore, nice case-set but variable in general. Hard way to improve this case-set with the same tools, systems and processes.
I’m not saying that H maker is not able to make a perfect Luminor case-set, just saying that regarding Luminor cases this maker should reconsider and change many things.

Although the results of this evaluation I cannot say that I have a preferred rep Luminor 44mm case. It is clear that Noob and KW are in a superior level, but both cases have, as above seen, pros and cons.
Would I change in a replica a Noob case for a KW case?
Would I change in a replica a KW case for a Noob case?
Not at all, it is not worth in my opinion. But, as always, this is up to you.

I would like finally remarking the importance of a good finish and care for little details. You can downgrade a shape accurate case with no perfect finish or no care of details, as it happens with H maker case-set. In the same way you can improve a no completely perfect shape accurate case applying a gen-like finish, as it happens with Noob and mainly KW case-sets.


******************************************************************************

As already said at the beginning, you could complete this thread reading the PAM Boutique KW vs. H maker comparison Review:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-pam-boutique-145665
In this way you could apply these two reviews as a guide to make by yourself a complete review of any PAM Luminor 44mm model.


Many thanks for reading

ALE
Klockis

 

[Klockis]

Again I must salute Ale for his hard work and dedication to get a better understanding of reps and share his views and analyzes to other members on the rep scene.
Even if it have been a long time in the making of this review it have also been lots of fun and Ale never lost his drive to go the extra mile to finish it in style.

Feel free to have different opinions then Ale and me, it just make for an even more interesting thread if we have people with different views and experience discussing this topic.
BUT PLEASE, keep it civilised and respect each other!
We are all just human so it’s possible we have made mistakes in this review, please point them out but do so in a constructive and respectful way.

Now I will take some time away from review writing and just enjoy my watches

/ Klockis

 

[bpdd]

Wow you´re truly abso-fkn-lutely amazing guys
Damn - kudos to you and your effort you put here on RWI - absolutely stunning!

Thank you very much ALE&Klockis!

 

[mysfit]

Thank you ALE amazing work :cheers:

 

[sacsha1]

man that is a lot of excellent work!!!

 

[IWC Doppelchronograph]

ALE, Klockis

Stunning work, I am in awe.....

 

[d4m.test]

wow, I never noticed the ripples above my lugs on the Noob 299K....Now I can't stop looking at them....DARN IT!

Oh well, time to buy a KW.

Thanks for this amazing study and dedication to this craft. Making a science out of these studies will push everyone closer to gen, no doubt.

 

[Fiddo]

Great information and comparison! Awesome job guys!

:thumbsup:

 

[thefever]

Incredible. One of the most informative and detailed reviews on this site. I couldn't wait for this thread to come to fruition and i've just read it and will reread again. Truly amazing.

 

[Kleen]

Wow you´re truly abso-fkn-lutely amazing guys
Damn - kudos to you and your effort you put here on RWI - absolutely stunning!

Thank you very much ALE&Klockis!

I'm amazed you managed to read the review AND give that feedback in 3 minutes flat. You must be a very fast reader....

 

[fortis Persicum]

Guys as always just superb work. To take time out of your normal lives to provide us with great info is priceless and a great act of kindness. Cheers to you both!

 

[watchpt]

Another awesome, detailed and well thought out review. Thanks again guys!

 

[sharrkey]

Congratulations Ale & Klockis on another fantastic review:thumbsup:

 

[jackagi]

Wow, impressive work! Thank you so much guys!

 

[soze]

Thank you gents!
That was an incredible, in-depth review. This just affirms how great the PAM section of RWI is, and why there are so many members that converge here.

 

[linkielei]

dont know how to say....respect and 1000x thanks

 

[InDenial]

Great review and awesome information, again showing the facts and presenting your expert opinions that allow people to decide for themselves which rep they want. I was not expecting anything less from ALE and Klockis, but am still in awe with the amount of time and effort that goes into such a valuable reference guide. Thank you!

 

[tt88]

Really great review guys! Thanks and really appreciate the effort and time taken!

Somebody give them an award!!!

Sent from my Bezel using 116610

 

[owram2]

Took me a long time to finish reading... must be even longer time to produce this work... *clap clap clap. Thank you!

 

[co-axial]

Just finished reading wow, I won't buy a rep again - so many flaws...

Great work guys :thumbsup: This PAM section with it's members is the ultimate database for a ( rep ) brand.