Interesting thread. I think if a rep for a few hundred dollars can get very close to a gen, that's a problem for the gen. I probably wouldn't buy some gens like Rolex, Omega, Pam, AP Royal Oak. But there are lots of gen makers who do things that reps can't. I think the best examples are Lange, Patek, AP (other than Royal Oak), most JLC. Those have become even more desirable to me (not that I'll actually buy one soon... but maybe someday).
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I think reps and this forum have served as a great way into an appreciation for luxury watches that most people, including myself when I joined the forums, could not and did not want to afford. But as reps have exposed me to and taught me so much about gens, I have made an effort to save and now I have a couple of gens that I probably wouldn't have bought if it wasnt for the rep forums.
I think some people dont buy gens because reps are such great value for money and some like me have bought gens because reps have wetted our appetite. As to devaluing reps, not really except in its exclusivity and that certainly p1sses off alot of gen owners who have sold their children to buy their gens, but if you come from a rep background I think you have a great appreciation for both the real thing and reps, many of which I would never sell, even when I eventually have 4 or 5 of my grail gens. I will always be forever grateful to this great hobby.
I think some people dont buy gens because reps are such great value for money and some like me have bought gens because reps have wetted our appetite. As to devaluing reps, not really except in its exclusivity and that certainly p1sses off alot of gen owners who have sold their children to buy their gens, but if you come from a rep background I think you have a great appreciation for both the real thing and reps, many of which I would never sell, even when I eventually have 4 or 5 of my grail gens. I will always be forever grateful to this great hobby.
in my mind a gen Rolex is not as special because it has been repped to death and it seems that 50% of the Rollies out the are reps so yes I think it devalues the brand. As far as other brands not yet I don't think
Exactly, damn good -- and free -- advertising.
Fact that companies make reps reflect high demand for that product.
Main problem is with the people who will spend crazy money on a gen. They want exclusivity, ostentation. They seem to have a need to show wealth and what they believe is superiority.
Spend 10 min at WUS and you'll run into a few of these types.
Now at RWI, I find that most folks just like watches. Much better class of people, IMO.
Yeah I feel it does devalue then gen, but that's only because the gen is bought for superficial reasons in a lot of cases. If my waiter at a restaurant was wearing a rolex I feel that would make me less interested in buying one.
I think you are projecting there. I'm sure wealthy people buy high end items for all sorts of reasons. Say a few million landed in your lap. You wouldn't buy the watch of your dreams just because you wanted it?
Actually showing off, to me, is a middle class attitude. Like, see I have a Rolex and a BMW because I'm awesome and successful at my job, etc. The super wealthy, if anything, seem to hide their wealth.
Back to the original post:
Reps do not devalue gens but maybe the tens of millions of dollars spent on rep products would have been spent on gen products. If anything, Seiko and Invicta loses more than Rolex every time someone here buys a $200 rep. Hermes isn't losing anything when someone buys a $200 Birkin but maybe Macy's lost a $200 sale on a bag?
Personally, I have been tainted by some super reps such that I'm not sure I could ever spend thousands on a watch again. The super reps that have pushed me to the dark side are:
TC Sub - It's so close. Why spend $5K on a gen when $700 gets you this rep with a gen insert?
SSD - I was lucky enough to score two Super Sea Dwellers with Swiss movements out of the classifieds a year ago. With a TC Sea Dweller bracelet, these are every bit a super rep as the TC Sub.
Planet Ocean v5 42mm - It's so close out of the box. I have a gen Seamaster and I'm not sure I see a $2K difference between the rep and the gen.
PAM 288K - when you compare the rep to gen, you find no differences! The gen movement is based on a Valjoux 7753. I couldn't see myself paying $8000K for a watch with a $400 ETA movement inside now that I've seen how close the rep is.
I feel the same about watches using the 6497 or any other off the shelf ETA movement. I'd never pay big $$$$ for one of those.
I totally agree with you about TC's.
Why spend 6K€ for a Sub when you can have a rep so close to the gen for 10 times less.
The only gen I would buy in the future (if I can afford it) is a JLC Reverso. This watch is so classy and unique, and still no good rep equivalence for now. That one deserves the investment to my eyes, unlike Rolex, Panerai or Omega models which are became so common. It's a shame people swears only by these brands today.
Why spend 6K€ for a Sub when you can have a rep so close to the gen for 10 times less.
The only gen I would buy in the future (if I can afford it) is a JLC Reverso. This watch is so classy and unique, and still no good rep equivalence for now. That one deserves the investment to my eyes, unlike Rolex, Panerai or Omega models which are became so common. It's a shame people swears only by these brands today.
ShiroTenshi
Mythical Poster
- 7/12/11
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+1
It also devalue some brands like Panerai (for some models) and Tag. I cant imagine buying a PAM with a 6497 now that I know the cost of the movement.
Rep actually educates us in a way so that we look beyond the branding, and appreciate in-house movements.
Those are the one which cannot be repped and are where the value is, rep will not be able to devalue that.
"The truly good stuff will not be afraid of the fakes"
+1
Fully agree. Knowing reps helps us to make the difference between two kind of brands : those with a real value of the product, and those whith value only coming from marketing.
Production cost of a submariner is 1000$, only marketing can justify a public price of 7000$. When you look at the movement of a Patek or Lange, you know what you're paying for.
Just my two cents...
Paul