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The ULTIMATE ZF RM035 Thread

andy_fin

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No way you could be more excited than I , lol. But I plan to share more info once I get into it. Going crazy waiting for it to arrive.
Hey once you get it could you really identify the movement? If it is the one you think it is, there should be a faux/ghost date position on the crown since that movement is a date movement. Well guess I want to know if this is the case. If it is, that may be an obstacle. I really wanna see what can be done with V4 to improve it! Keep us posted :)
 

thomasharding99

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4/9/20
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Hey once you get it could you really identify the movement? If it is the one you think it is, there should be a faux/ghost date position on the crown since that movement is a date movement. Well guess I want to know if this is the case. If it is, that may be an obstacle. I really wanna see what can be done with V4 to improve it! Keep us posted :)

Will do. It just cleared (finally!) and is heading to USPS. Next week will be a LONGGGG week!
 
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miro10

Horology Curious
26/2/21
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.

Thank you! looking great!
Another disadvantage in my opinion is the top-margin at the bottom text "swiss made". Need to be more space there.
 
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thomasharding99

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Hey once you get it could you really identify the movement? If it is the one you think it is, there should be a faux/ghost date position on the crown since that movement is a date movement. Well guess I want to know if this is the case. If it is, that may be an obstacle. I really wanna see what can be done with V4 to improve it! Keep us posted :)

Just got it today. 5+ days of no movement once it hit the USA, then all of a sudden this morning, "OUT FOR DELIVERY". I almost soiled myself :) Yes, it has the date. When d]setting the time, you can hear the date "click" when it advances. So it appears it does have the 6T15. Hopefully this weekend I will be able to take it out and put in the new 6T28 I have waiting for it.
 

andy_fin

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Just got it today. 5+ days of no movement once it hit the USA, then all of a sudden this morning, "OUT FOR DELIVERY". I almost soiled myself :) Yes, it has the date. When d]setting the time, you can hear the date "click" when it advances. So it appears it does have the 6T15. Hopefully this weekend I will be able to take it out and put in the new 6T28 I have waiting for it.

Thank you so much for checking! It s a tad disappointing that this is the case. So indeed it could use a movement upgrade. Please keep us posted and most importantly - enjoy your watch!
But you know - let us know if you can franken it and reveal that balance wheel!
When I get to see what you did with it, I'll probably soil myself! :D
 
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thomasharding99

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Thank you so much for checking! It s a tad disappointing that this is the case. So indeed it could use a movement upgrade. Please keep us posted and most importantly - enjoy your watch!
But you know - let us know if you can franken it and reveal that balance wheel!
When I get to see what you did with it, I'll probably soil myself! :D

Well, I guess it was not meant to be. The 6T28 will fit in the case and work, but the minute and second hands will not connect to the posts. The 6T15 has been modified with extended posts. I was wondering about this before starting as the deco is quite thick. I am sure a watchsmith could take other movements apart and swap the parts, but not going to attempt this myself. A bit out of my league. I was tempted, but don’t want to end up with 2 junk movements and still no way to put a new one in (a new 6T15 would have the same issue). In the end, it would have made quite a difference, as the video shows. The first 18 seconds are the stock, the last 10 seconds or so, is the 6T28. Hopefully I can get this thing back together without losing any screws…

https://youtu.be/WokuShpX2h8
 
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andy_fin

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Well, I guess it was not meant to be. The 6T28 will fit in the case and work, but the minute and second hands will not connect to the posts. The 6T15 has been modified with extended posts. I was wondering about this before starting as the deco is quite thick. I am sure a watchsmith could take other movements apart and swap the parts, but not going to attempt this myself. A bit out of my league. I was tempted, but don’t want to end up with 2 junk movements and still no way to put a new one in (a new 6T15 would have the same issue). In the end, it would have made quite a difference, as the video shows. The first 18 seconds are the stock, the last 10 seconds or so, is the 6T28. Hopefully I can get this thing back together without losing any screws…

So some more modding is needed to place the hands. But what I see in the video is progress. Did you remove any deco in the second half? Could you have recorded a video from a bit of a distance?
I really hope they improve things in V5. It looks like they can do so much more to make these RM reps come to life.

Oh and - did you manage to put it back together?
 

thomasharding99

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So some more modding is needed to place the hands. But what I see in the video is progress. Did you remove any deco in the second half? Could you have recorded a video from a bit of a distance?
I really hope they improve things in V5. It looks like they can do so much more to make these RM reps come to life.

Oh and - did you manage to put it back together?

It was a huge improvement IMO. I just wish those hands would have worked. I would have kept it that way. No, I did not remove any deco. If the hands worked, I probably would have just o show more. Did not do a video from a distance, but it allowed just enough moving parts to make it almost a legit skeletal design (but not an accurate rep of course). The fake balance wheel is only held on by one screw, so it could have been removed, if desired. For anyone that has a clue of watch movements, it does not make sense to have a stationary balance wheel showing with a bit of a moving one behind. But it was nice to see the escapement and a bit of the wheel moving. I did get it all back together (about 6.5 hours start to finish) and am just about to post a full write-up with all my observations. Hopefully it helps others in the future. There was just not much info at all online on this rep.
 
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thomasharding99

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ZF factory RM035-02 disassemble and observations of construction. This only applies to the version 4. I can’t speak to any other versions or factory. I took the time to write this up, in case anyone else wants to try someday. I could find nothing online, so I had to wing it. As a side not, the 6T15 and 6T28 are in the same series, but due to modifications made to the 6T15, the 6T28 is not a drop in replacement. It could be done, and the results are nice, but should be done by a watchsmith. The benefit would be a full tear-down would also include a full clean and lub. So it might be worth it for some.

Originally my goal was to get a carbon fiber case to build my own custom watch with. I really like the design of the RM025, but was not looking to spend over $700 on one, and wanted more of a homage than a rep. But after finding out that my TD could not get just a case/crystal, crown assembly, I sprung for the latest version 4 with the hopes of replacing the 6T15 that it comes with, with a 6T28 to allow at least some mechanical movement to be seen. So, this is how is went:

The back side work- 1st was to remove the back. Most of the screws were not snugged up, so I knew I would want to snug them up a bit more after the transplant was complete to avoid them falling out. But I was happy to see a case back rubber seal installed. It is just a standard round O ring stretched around the steel bezel that holds the crystal. So the back seemed well sealed overall. 2nd was to remove the rotor, to make sure it would fit the new movement. After taking off the back, I discovered the small plate with 3 screws that is in the center of the rotor is all fake. The plate it just held on with a drop of rubber cement, and the 3 screws are just tiny fake screw heads that are also glued on. I image over time, if the watch is in a hot environment, they might fall off. Not sure, but after lifting the fake plate off, the one slotted nut that is found on Myota movements was revealed. Easy, it just unscrewed and the rotor was removed. I then removed the 5 point screws in the corners. I discovered they do not do anything, just for looks. I then removed the rear deco plate. With the rotor removed, 2 small (very small!) slotted screws hold it on. But, this is not just deco, it also holds a small winding gear. So once removed, the gear falls out. This gear provides the clutch function. Without it, the watch will not stay wound, so it has to go back upon reassembly. This is the first customization that the 6T15 has. So in order to use the 6T28, some component swapping would be required to use the deco plate on another movement. If push came to shove, I was prepared to just use the stock 6T28 rotor if needed and just paint it black. Then the stem/crown needs to be removed. It is a standard small indent that gets pushed to remove e stem. Standard process.
Now for the front- I removed the front cover assembly and was happy to see a thick custom rubber seal around the crystal housing. Very substantial. Next, the plastic chapter ring just lifts out. It needs to be lifted out straight or it will bind. It is a nice snug fit. For those that do not like the smaller little “sign” on the left with “RM035-02 RAFA” and the not-so-well spaced “Swiss Made”, this would be an easy swap. Next I removed the hands. Now the entire movement with deco comes out. There are two deco plates on the front of the movement. The top one is held on by the 4 corner screws. 2 are long and 2 are short. The longer ones hold the entire assembly together and the 2 shorter ones are more for looks. They all should have been long, as one of the short ones was stripped. They only hold on by 1-2 threads, so they must have over tightened it when assembled in the factory. Once these 4 corner screws are removed, the top deco plate can come off. The next deco plate is held on by 2 small slotted screws (VERY SMALL). One is hidden behind the large gear in the upper left corner (the one with 32 jewels next to it), the other one is revealed just under the hands, next to the posts, once the hands are removed. The interesting thing is, this screw is located in an area that is removed in the 6T28, so if the 6T28 were used, the screw could not be replaced. This is ok because the center plate that holds the movement is a snug wrap, and the top deco plate would hold it all other anyway, but that one screw under the gear would still be needed. I removed the larger gear, a smaller gear just under the hands (it drives the gears from the hour hand gear so the deco gears move when the time is adjusted). Now the 2nd deco plate lifts off. The movement is now fully removable for service or mods.
I did apply silicone lube to the seals before re-assembly, and also applied Swiss watch oil to the rotor bearings, but otherwise unchanged.

In summary, these are my observations:

1. The NTPT case is a work of art. The material is flawless, and the machining/milling is perfect. Very sharp and clean machine work, and no ragged or chipped edges, no bad surface finishes, just clean, high quality work. This can be seen just by removing the strap to see some of the hidden work. Very well done.
2. The case seems to be well sealed. I cant speak to the crystal gaskets, but the front and back covers seem to be well sealed, and the crown has an internal steel structure and a standard crown seal (o-ring).
3. On my unit, the counter bores (for the 5 point screws) on the front and back plate were undersize on diameter. My new 5 prong driver would not fit (it was exactly 2.7mm diameter). I had to polish the OD of the driver down so it would fit the counter bores to remove the screws. Same with the 4 point strap driver. I just took the driver tip out of the handle, chucked it in my cordless driver chuck and ground the OD down on an India stone until it fit into the counter bores. I tapered it too so the prongs would not get too thin and weak.
4. I ordered the small 5 prong movement driver to use on the movement swap, but it was not needed. The 5 prong case driver worked on all large screws inside, and a very small slot driver is all that is needed for the rest. There are several decorative screws that could be removed with the smaller driver, but they only need to be removed if someone wanted to modify the deco.
5. Replacing the back deco plate was a nightmare. That one gear must be aligned properly for the main spring tension to be retained. Plus those two small screws have to be replaced while the gear is positioned. Much patience, and a few choice words were needed, but I finally got it together.
6. The only left over piece was that small deco plate in the center of the rotor. I kept it, but did not put it back on. I was concerned it might fall off some day. But if I want to, I can easily put it back someday. But it looks fine without it anyway.
7. The ratcheting system used on the rotor is loud. Not as in defective, but just a loud system. Not a big deal to me.
8. The rotor assembly overall seems to also be modified to use the rear deco plate. So once again, some parts of the movement might need to be transplanted if the 6T28 were to be used.
9. Once disassembled, I did notice a very small crack and chip in the corner of the crystal. Not really visible once assembled (the dark chapter ring makes it hard to see). I assume they did this when pressing the crystal into the cover housing.
10. The strap is nice and seems to be high quality, but I do not like the very thin rubber that holds the buckle assembly. I feel it will break over time. So a velcor strap is coming. But I do plan to make adapters so I can use any 24mm strap I want. Should have some prototypes in a week or so.
11. Overall, the inside was clean and no debris was found. Now that I know the movement is modified, I am a bit concerned about how well it was done, but I wont lose any sleep over it. If it dies, I will just make it into a custom homage, with an all new deco and put the 6T28 into it for a proper skeletal watch, but with a really nice NTPT case (yes, I am a bit of a material whore).
 

andy_fin

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This is amazing. Truly thank you for breaking all this down like that.
Seems these reps are not that straightforward but your guide will help whoever wants to try something new!

Did you put it back together thomasharding99 ?
 

thomasharding99

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This is amazing. Truly thank you for breaking all this down like that.
Seems these reps are not that straightforward but your guide will help whoever wants to try something new!

Did you put it back together thomasharding99 ?

andy_fin, thanks. Hopefully this will help someone, or a factory improve one of their next reps. And yes, all back together, and on my wrist now. Love this NTPT case! Now I just wish I had purchased the tourbillion, so there would be some visible moving parts...
 

andy_fin

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andy_fin, thanks. Hopefully this will help someone, or a factory improve one of their next reps. And yes, all back together, and on my wrist now. Love this NTPT case! Now I just wish I had purchased the tourbillion, so there would be some visible moving parts...

Good to hear! But yeah it does help. At least changing the RAFA bezel thingy seems to be easy and that is another thing I was wondering about.
Let's hope though that they give us a good rep with visible moving parts by V7 at least :D
 

Karlus

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Does anyone know the best way to source the V4 bezel bolts? Would love to switch out the silver for the correct grey
 

Mercedesslr

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So feb 7 hopefully we should get some news on the V5? I wonder will it be just info or ready to order