"Swiss" ETA / Asian Superclones / Asian Clones - What's the best choice?

[Apopra]

Great information thx I'm braineating this stuff on this forum and I like what I'm eating

 

[powerdrome]

Hello All, thanks for the useful thread.

One clarification: I came accross an internet site (replicaeorologisvizzeri.com), where they sell, for each watch, a special "original assembly" option.
Full of curiosity, I wrote them asking what does it mean and why this option make the watches cost twice?!
They answered me that with that option, watches come with some gen parts and
a clone ETA movement, that is better than ETA swiss mounted on the standard version; so both are swiss, but they claim the clone ETA is more fluid and precise and closer to original.

It is something true, or just bull...s...???

Thanks for your clarification

 

[dapoppa]

tons of knowledge, thnx guys!!!

 

[powerdrome]

Hello All, thanks for the useful thread.

One clarification: I came accross an internet site (replicaeorologisvizzeri.com), where they sell, for each watch, a special "original assembly" option.
Full of curiosity, I wrote them asking what does it mean and why this option make the watches cost twice?!
They answered me that with that option, watches come with some gen parts and
a clone ETA movement, that is better than ETA swiss mounted on the standard version; so both are swiss, but they claim the clone ETA is more fluid and precise and closer to original.

It is something true, or just bull...s...???

Thanks for your clarification

 

[Miasato]

Very useful, thanks!!

 

[ScottCamel]

I have just joined this forum and found this piece of gem with great information. Thanks for the compilation.

 

[bensouth]

Think i'll go for a Swiss! Thanks

 

[Raddave]

Hello All, thanks for the useful thread.

One clarification: I came accross an internet site (replicaeorologisvizzeri.com), where they sell, for each watch, a special "original assembly" option.
Full of curiosity, I wrote them asking what does it mean and why this option make the watches cost twice?!
They answered me that with that option, watches come with some gen parts and
a clone ETA movement, that is better than ETA swiss mounted on the standard version; so both are swiss, but they claim the clone ETA is more fluid and precise and closer to original.

It is something true, or just bull...s...???

Thanks for your clarification

not true

 

[powerdrome]

not true

Thanks [MENTION=91887]REDD[/MENTION]ave,I've understood in other threads that a brand new swiss mvmt is surely better, BUT when buying a rep watch should be a better bet buying with asian/clone;
because swiss mounted are often used or refurbished.

What you think?

 

[tammyha]

Are there reps out there that actually use ETA but charge a little more? Would be cool if something like a Tudor had a gen ETA movement inside.

 

[anfor]

Thanks for your useful post

 

[thehipp04]

For someone who is really uneducated on the movements, this was a great read. Thanks!

 

[diecast_]

Thanks for the insight! The movement was one of the main items I still had to get around as I still have it ingrained in my head that a rep with a "Swiss" movement would still look better (quality-wise) than one with an Asian movement. My understanding now (kindly correct me if I'm wrong please) is that the actual watch exterior remains (and looks) the same (quality-wise) but the internals are of differing quality. Because of this article, I'll likely go for a Swiss ETA for longevity.

 

[slph33]

Pam382 Bronzo: Can someone tell me more on the Pam 382 from SF Factory with the Hour hand adjustable independently(Just like the Gen Panerai). How is the movement for this piece? Does it passed QC?

 

[slph33]

It is from TS watch site (ts-station.cn)


Sent from the RWI mobile app

 

[Runn3r]

Thanks for a useful post !

 

[Dale Cooper]

Is it possible to fix the formatting of the original post ? Thanks.

 

[Guest]

Is it possible to fix the formatting of the original post ? Thanks.

"Swiss" ETA / Asian Superclones / Asian Clones – What’s the best choice?


INTRODUCTION
The proposal of this Thread is to establish what is the best choice between some current movements in the replica watches:
- “Swiss” ETA
- New Asian Superclones
- Conventional Asian Clones.
Don’t get disappointed, but I have not the reply at this moment.
I try through this thread start a discussion in order to obtain in some weeks an answer to this interesting question for all members.
Anyway in this thread I have introduced some information and links to give you a support in order to base your opinions on them and take your decisions.

I had the idea of this thread many months ago. But just now I have decided to place this thread due to an interesting debate started between Wiz, wat44 and others members, myself included, in a thread put by tillybop with other very different purpose.
This mentioned thread is very important to introduce the main subject to discuss. you can read below the above mentioned discussion as follows:

"Wiz: Even if the Swiss ETA from our dealers are sometimes not really Swiss, at least they're higher grade movements than the ones sold as clones. If you ask me it's worth taking the higher grade, even if it's not Swiss.

tillybop: I don't understand Wiz. If it's not really swiss, then it is the clone... ..isn't it?

Wiz: What I'm saying is when a dealer sells a watch with 2 options: swiss or clone movement, the one sold as swiss will most likely be of better quality than the one sold as clone.
I've repaired quite a few 282X movements now, and everytime I've seen one with issues that were not the result of a missuse, the movement had been sold as clones.

watt44: I dont agree Wiz
sometimes, you will get a re-worked swiss which will be worse than an asian clone

Wiz: It's been a while since I haven't seen one in a watch recently purchased. The ones I see with reworked swiss movements mostly come from watches that are a few years old.

watt44: also dealer-dependent and watch-dependent
the safest bet is buy clone from dealer, and if you feel so-inclined, gen swiss mvt and swap it over when the clone dies

Wiz: Actually it's more factory dependent. But I talked with a few dealers and they know exactly which factories are known to provide new swiss movements and which are not.
I wouldn't say the safest is to buy the clone. Even if the movment you'll get when buying Swiss is not really Swiss, it will most likely be of better quality than the one you'll get when buying the same watch with clone.
I'm not saying it's the gospel truth, it's just what I would advise based on the movements I've had on the bench.

watt44: have you been able to tell the new asian clones from ETA? ive heard from 2 different watchsmiths who reckon they cant tell!!!

Wiz: So far I've been relying on the machining marks bellow the automatic device, but in order to be sure I would need to see a movement that is for sure one of these new asian clones.
You're talking about the supposedly new superclones people have been talking about lately, right?

tillybop: So basically it's a lottery. You pays your money and takes your chance. If you are lucky you'll get a gen ETA, otherwise it will be a clone of varying quality...

Wiz: Some dealers will answer you honnestly on wether they think the factory producing the watch you're after really provides Swiss movements, some won't.
But the real issue is not will you get a Swiss movement or not, but will the extra money get you something better? And from my humble experience, most of the time the answer may be yes.

ALE7575: "Swiss", Asian clones, Superclones...
It is an interesting discussion for all members.
I think Wiz could start a thread about this and try to achieve a definitive conclusion, if possible.
I know perhaps we have not enough data to take a decission, but we need to know if it is not definitively better a Clone than a "Swiss", because the thoughts of most members are: Clone better than "Swiss"
There are a lot of consults from noobs who are asking the more "expert" members for a decission between Clone or "Swiss", and the more frequent reply is: Go to the clone !!!

tillybop: Good point
I've read loads of threads where members have been tod to stay away from swiss and go for the clones. So a definitive answer either way woud be beneficial for all.

Wiz: The problem is that people are looking for a definitive answer, when around here things re in perpetual evolution.
What was considered to be true yesterday might not still be true today, and today's truth might not be tomorrow's truth.
And the reason why I don't make a thread about it is because I don't consider my opinion to be the gospel truth. I can only talk from my experience.

Watt44: in the last 3 months, I have heard directly from 1 watchsmith and indirectly from 2 others who have opened up and taken apart a movement and were UNABLE to tell whether they were working on the new asian clone or the ETA
all 3 are related to this forum
this is a fairly new development
Mary was sourcing a watch for me, and some dealers were claiming swiss mvt for a certain price, and mary said there is NO WAY they were swiss because of the price they were selling them at - ie new swiss - it is possible for old or re-cycled swiss stock
so depending on wat you are buying... could be:
1. gen ETA new stock
2. old ETA, reserviced, recylced, recobbled... (the worst outcome)
3. new clones
4. older clones
much harder to know exactly wat you will be getting... Robert and Mary I think would be the only ones capable of knowing wat they are selling to you. MR next best
IMO
I just found this:
http://www.rwg.cc/topic/135779-2836-..._fromsearch__1
interesting, too

Wiz: They could probably tell the difference if they had a swiss and a new clone side by side and were looking for differences.
Rep dealers can't produce 1:1 cases, dials, ..., why would they be able to produce 1:1 movements...?
If I get a watch that is a confirmed new clone I'll try to look for differences.
There are less and less watches coming with refurbished swiss movement, so the option 2 is less and less likely.
Option 4 is also not much likely since most of the time you'll get a better movement when ordering swiss than when ordering clone.
Bottom line is, all the reps with 282X movements that ended up on my bench with issues were powered by clones, so no matter what you'll get when ordering swiss, I can't advise to go for the clone.

KBH: Maybe the question should be which is better, a new clone or an old ETA that needs servicing, which is likely what you'd get in the last few years? Then it becomes a harder choice. I'd still go with the Swiss if it was watch I really liked. If it was one I'd probably flip, I'd go with the clone.
Now the game is changing with the new Sellita SW200 movements coming in reps. I'll take that any time knowing it's a factory fresh Swiss movement.

Wiz: Between the reps I bought and the ones I've had on the bench from others, I've seen maybe around 30 movements sold as Swiss. Out of these, I can only remember 2 which were in really bad condition and showed excessive signs of wear, and another one which was in average condition.
Sure it's not enough to draw a rule, but I guess that's engouh to say that the odds of getting a refurbished Swiss movement are not as big as some may think.
I don't know where the belief that most Swiss movements are refurbished came from. Maybe it used to be true a few years ago".​

The link for this thread is indicated below, please read from post #30:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/what-value-this-modded-sub-87294p3



THE CONTENDERS
The movements which are installed in replicas that we are talking about are as follows:


“Swiss” ETA
The thoughts about these movements are:
- These “Swiss” movements are not really authentic NEW Swiss ETA, they are refurbished Swiss ETA movements.
- These “Swiss” movements are really new Swiss ETA
- These “Swiss” movements are made with a part of authentic Swiss parts and a part of good Asian clone parts.
- ……
- ……
These movements are sold more expensive than the Asian and the question is if it is worth to pay this difference.
Many people (myself included) even say that the installed “Swiss” in replicas are worse than Asian clones at this moment. Because the Asian clone is NEW and relatively controlled but the “Swiss” has an unknown origin and age.
It is interesting to have more information about these movements. Thus, read the Wiz opinions in the thread above mentioned and the following thread placed by Francisco:
http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=87481
The thread of Francisco seems definitive. But after reading the Wiz’s opinions we could think that perhaps there are some things that are starting to change in the replica movements.
Besides we have the words of sead1999 in a post of this forum:
Originally Posted by sead1999:
"Hello everyone
There are:
- Swiss ETA 2836 movements,
- Swiss ETA 2824 movements,
- Swiss Sellita movements (They have not made a clone Sellita in China yet so the movements on sale must be Swiss)
- There are also Swiss 7750 movements, Swiss 2892 movements, Swiss 2893 movements, and others...
Most of the replica watches sold with 'Swiss ETA' movements, that are priced between $200 and $300, contain 2824 and 2836 movements. Their price is not that high because of how simple the movements are, and also because about 60% of the parts in the 'Swiss ETA' are actually made in China.
There are different grades of movement available too:
- [platinum?] plated
- brand new
- refurbished
- used
- and other grades.
Swiss Sellita movements usually cost the same price as [Swiss] 2824 and [Swiss] 2836 movements.
When choose a 7750 or 2892 movement, they are more rare and more complex, and the price is correspondingly much higher. For example, you can't buy a replica watch with a Swiss 7750 movement for under $600.
The movements like Swiss ETA 2824 or 2836 are available to buy from retailers in the USA for about $150 (from Ofrei, for example) but you can also buy them much cheaper, so don't forget you can get these movements for less than $150.
When you buy a watch sold as Swiss but you get a Clone movement, it may have happened for two reasons:
- the Dealer is trying to make some extra profit because the Clone and Swiss movements are very similar (and the dealer hopes you won't notice)
- or there has been miscommunication between the dealer and the factory, and the dealer made an honest mistake."


New Asian Superclones
These movements are the last generation of Asian clones, they have a good price and, besides, they have seemingly a very good quality. The accuracy of these Superclones to the gen Swiss ETA is very good. And seemingly all the parts are interchangeable.
Below a link to a Puretime Superclone information:
http://puretimewatch.com/blog/166/
There are not many reviews of these movements, because they are very new. But the best information that I have been able to found (indicated by Bonesey) are two interesting and complete threads placed by Smidsy.
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=149097
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=149100
Please bear in mind the last words of Smidsy in his thread:
"The movement I got could have been the best or worst in a bunch and we have no way of knowing. Please bear in mind that these are my opinions of the movement I reviewed".
Threfore we must be cautious
Just read these threads and judge by yourself. Asian Superclones maybe a new possibility!!


Conventional Asian Clones
These movementes were and are considered until this moment the best choice: reliable, precise enough, cheaper and…NEW.
Most of fans at this moment think that this is the best option to buy.
But if you read the opinions in the above mentioned threads you could change your opinion.
Because, If we confirm that the Smidsy review is correct in the future and, besides, a big percentage of Superclones are in this way, we will have to change our thoughts and purchase decisions.


PERPETUAL EVOLUTION
Anyway I agree with Wiz’s words:
“The problem is that people are looking for a definitive answer, when around here things are in perpetual evolution.
What was considered to be true yesterday might not still be true today, and today's truth might not be tomorrow's truth”.
And this is the true, the reps world is in evolution and we must to study the matters carefully before to take a wrong decision.
I hope in some weeks to have a lot of opinions from the members in order to obtain sound conclusions soon
Therefore, as always, this thread is open to receive the opinions from all people.


THIS THREAD START IN THIS MOMENT WITH YOUR OPINIONS
WITHOUT YOUR OPINIONS THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS

Many thanks for your kind cooperation
ALE

 

[Dale Cooper]

Thank you !

 

[chrislando]

Its all about being able to source parts if anything goes wrong. Most watchmakers wont work on an asian movement. And sourcing parts for them sucks... They might not fit and there are always problems. An eta is certified. So every piece is easy to find and easy to replace. And nobody will refuse to work on an eta.