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Looking to build a 1016. Any advice?

ToeKnee

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I'm thinking about building a 1016 of my own. Any advice would be appreciated. Here's what I'm thinking.

Raffles for Dial, Hands, Crown and Bracelet. (Unless the group thinks MoChaCha dials are a much better option)
ETA 2824 movement.
Vietnam case

Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
 
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manodeoro

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I'm thinking about building a 1016 of my own. Any advice would be appreciated. Here's what I'm thinking.

Raffles for Dial, Hands, Crown and Bracelet. (Unless the group thinks MoChaCha dials are a much better option)
ETA 2824 movement.
Vietnam case

Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

In my opinion it would be a shame to spend $$$ for a VN case then use cheap dial, handset and crown from Raffles.
Unless you want to upgrade later of course.

BTW ... from which era do you want it to be ?
The 1016 was launched in 1959 and remained in production until 1989.
During those 30 years it had many different dials, from the early gilt chapter ring dials to the Mark 5 matte dials
Depending on the dial you choose the serial number could vary from 516XXX to 9XXXXXX
You may have a look here for more informations.
 
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fall1n1

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I’m no expert on vintage but I believe that our fellow member JMB makes the best 1016 case
 

ToeKnee

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In my opinion it would be a shame to spend $$$ for a VN case then use cheap dial, handset and crown from Raffles.
Unless you want to upgrade later of course.

BTW ... from which era do you want it to be ?
The 1016 was launched in 1959 and remained in production until 1989.
During those 30 years it had many different dials, from the early gilt chapter ring dials to the Mark 5 matte dials
Depending on the dial you choose the serial number could vary from 516XXX to 9XXXXXX
You may have a look here for more informations.
Great info, thank you. I'm looking for a Mark 2 dial ideally or in that generation. I've been told the VN cases are the best, and am looking for any good suggestions or recommendations on the other components if Raffles is subpar. I'm still in the learning process so any suggestions on sourcing parts would be extremely appreciated.
 

freebalkany

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So I'm not sure if I can really help you here.
What I can tell you is that I have experience with building a 6610/1016 with all raffles parts. It costed me around 500 euros if I remember well.



However I have to say that it's not a very accurate build and the dial is really sub par.

If I were to do it again, I would try to do a late 1016 with a matte dial because to my knowledge they are easier to replicate.

You could go for a vietnam dial for your build but beware that those dials are gen spec, so you will have to clip the feet and find a way to secure the dial to the movement.
 

ToeKnee

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So I'm not sure if I can really help you here.
What I can tell you is that I have experience with building a 6610/1016 with all raffles parts. It costed me around 500 euros if I remember well.



However I have to say that it's not a very accurate build and the dial is really sub par.

If I were to do it again, I would try to do a late 1016 with a matte dial because to my knowledge they are easier to replicate.

You could go for a vietnam dial for your build but beware that those dials are gen spec, so you will have to clip the feet and find a way to secure the dial to the movement.

Wow. Wasn’t aware of that. See folks, this is why RWI is the best community around.
 

manodeoro

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Wow. Wasn’t aware of that. See folks, this is why RWI is the best community around.
Raffles Explorer cases are nice and can be really great with some casework.
You can even build a 6350 with a gilt dial ... but you'll have to rework the outside of the the caseback to make it look like a semi-bubbleback 😋

zd6CD3.jpg
 

ToeKnee

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Looks like Raffles doesn't have any cases in stock.
 

ToeKnee

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Actually, looks like they do now. So the question is how much better are the VN cases than Raffles?
 

ToeKnee

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Any difference where I source the 2428 from?
 

tanith

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Actually, looks like they do now. So the question is how much better are the VN cases than Raffles?
i think for most of us who have gone down the path to a 1016, the raffles case is not correct enough to invest in a serious build

it really depends on what you are looking for. if we are being really generous, the raffles case can be "good enough" in the sense that it has a smooth bezel, no crownguards, screw down caseback, kind of looks like the 1016
if you start looking at specific details, like the shape of the lugs or curvature of the case, it is not really accurate

if you are not trying to replicate the 1016 exactly, and you just want to build a no nonsense steel watch with a certain kind of dial, the raffles is fine
 

Endo

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I totally agree with @manodeoro, it would be a shame to spend funds on a vietnam case and then go with a raffles dial. but this is the beauty of this hobby its your own creation I guess...

As another member stated on here JMB does some great 1016 cases and they come with engravings, I'd personally opt for this over a vietnam case considering cost. The cost of Vietnam parts continue to rise... not sure if anyone else has noted this.

I would pair the JMB case set with a Vietnam dial of your choosing and a 7206 bracelet, I'd assume you'd be in your budget with a build like that.
Looking forward to see how you get on!
 

ToeKnee

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Does anyone know if JMB is still doing cases? His last few posts seem to suggest he’s out of the rep world.

Also how do you all feel about Mochacha components?
 

manodeoro

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Does anyone know if JMB is still doing cases? His last few posts seem to suggest he’s out of the rep world.

Also how do you all feel about Mochacha components?

Justin's last post was today ... saying he almost got out of the rep scene ... and the previous one was late august :eek:
so I guess there's really few chances that he would mod a case again
Nevertheless, if you're not to picky you could start with a sterile Explorer case from Raffles and do some work on it :
- redrill lugs (they are already drilled through but the holes are too small for thick springbars)
- enlarge the inside diameter of the bezel to fit a plexi in place of the sapphire
- thin the bezel (sand down the bottom side)
- rework the lugs profile a bit
With all this done you'll already have a more decent 1016 case
Engravings on the inside caseback and between the lugs would be a nice add-on
If you know a friend that works on lathes and can modifiy the height (slim it from the upper side) of the case ... thus it's curvature ... you'll be pretty close to a bingo
I've done all this, plus sanding the outside of the caseback to a semi-bubbleback shape, for my 6610 build ... started with a DHGate 1016 case (far to be as good as Raffles Explorer case) and the final result looks really good IMHO
So my opinion is that the Exlporer case from Raffles is not that bad OOTB and can be really good with some work done on it
 

manodeoro

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Does anyone know if JMB is still doing cases? His last few posts seem to suggest he’s out of the rep world.

Also how do you all feel about Mochacha components?

It seems Mochacha doesn't have any Mark 2 dials ...
All Mochacha dials have the "SWIIS - T<25" at 6:00 under the minutes hashes while on the Mark 2 dials it sits on top of it ... just like the Type 6 non chapter-ring gilt dials
I just checked Raffles dials and the vintage style 1016 dials Ken sells is pretty close to a Mark 2 ... and to be honest the printings are not good but those on Mochacha's 1016 dials are not much better
So what's the use of paying C$268 when you can get almost the same stuf, with the "SWISS - T<25" in the right position, for $35 only
Maybe you could surch for Bi Vintage on Facebook (he used to have a store) and have a look at what he offers
 
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alligoat

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This is Bi Vintage on facebook, some of his posts are a few years old, so I don't know if his prices have gone up.

manodeoro's suggestions for modding a Raffles case may be the best option out there these days. JMB is gone and I don't expect him back.
Gone are the days when you could pick up a 1601, 16000 or a 16200 DJ case for a decent price and use it for a 1016 build.

Another option is to build a 34 mm cased Explorer. 1500 Date and 5500 AK cases are more readily available these days- people take the movements out of them and build 1680 subs and 5513/2 subs.

2824-2 movements - swiss, are expensive these days- around $200. The asian clones are $60 or so- do you feel lucky? I ran across an eta 2840 movement this week- similar to a 2424 in size and it beats at 21600- a plus. It's a Swatch movement- maybe you could buy one for $100 on ebay and service it for who knows how much?
 
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ToeKnee

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Thanks for all the great input. I pulled the trigger last night and ended up getting all VN parts including a Rolex signed ETA 2824 and all the other components. Went with a Mark 2 dial. I’ll get a bracelet from Raffles unless the group has a better suggestion. I may eventually look to piece together a real 1016 from sources gen components so this is a good practice run for that I suppose. Any other suggestions on my rep project are welcome and appreciated.
 

manodeoro

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manodeoro's suggestions for modding a Raffles case may be the best option out there these days. JMB is gone and I don't expect him back.
Gone are the days when you could pick up a 1601, 16000 or a 16200 DJ case for a decent price and use it for a 1016 build.

Another option is to build a 34 mm cased Explorer. 1500 Date and 5500 AK cases are more readily available these days- people take the movements out of them and build 1680 subs and 5513/2 subs.

The more I read about 1016 cases and the fact that JMB probably won't offer his 1016 cases in the future, the more I think about making small batches of modded Raffles cases and put it on sale for RWI members.
I've done some, with all the mods I listed previously, including engravings (between lugs and inside caseback) and result was really good.
The only concerns is that Raffles randomly send sterile or engraved cases and, when the cases come fully engraved, removing the existing engravings is a real pain in the ass (I hate to do that).
I'll think about that and if Ken can commit to sending me fully sterile Explorer cases only I'll probably make a first batch.

2824-2 movements - swiss, are expensive these days- around $200. The asian clones are $60 or so- do you feel lucky? I ran across an eta 2840 movement this week- similar to a 2424 in size and it beats at 21600- a plus. It's a Swatch movement- maybe you could buy one for $100 on ebay and service it for who knows how much?

The last Asian 2824-2 and PT5000 movements I used ... bought around $60 shipping included ... were all running really well and the manufacturing quality seems to have improved a lot.
So ... instead of taking my chance in servicing a 2840 swatch movement ... I would only use it collect :
- complete balance (cock, spring and wheel)
- escape wheel
- pallet fork
- setting lever (2 positions only)
and put all this on the Asian 2824-2 to turn it to low beat 21600bph and make it a no-date with 2 crown positions.
Costs would be ... more or less :
- 2824-2 or PT500 : 60$ ... AliExpress
- 2840 : $40 to $100 ... eBay
- work : $80 ... if you don't do the work yourself
So final price would be $190 to $250 ... almost the same price of a serviced ETA 2840 BUT without the hassle of dealing with the fact the the ETA 2840 mainplate has no holes for dial feet or movement clamps.

That's exactly what I'm doing those days for a 6350 build ... apart from the fact that I use a Sellita SW200-1 instead of an Asian 2824-2.

A more funny ... but much more challenging too :eek: ... option would be to replace the balance wheel and spring only and keep the original balance cock ...
Doing that way you can keep the the fine tuning timing adjustment screw :cool: which is missing on the 2840 balance cock
 
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