Rolex Daytona Options

[advuk]

Hi,

I have read pretty much every thread containing "Daytona" on RWI...

... and whilst I fully know the risks of the heavily modified 7750, I just can't get away from the desire.. I've always liked them since I got my first Rolex over 12 years ago - I don't know what it is about the white faced SS, and has nothing to do with what other people think, I just love the combination and the sub dials as my second personal favourite watch after the GMT.

I love the vintages just as much, and I feel that I will at some point get a Spinmaster or similar.

I've had 2 rep Daytona's of any significance - one I wore while my daily beater was off for service for 3 months and was great, but after 12 months wouldn't hold any charge - I had the movement replaced and was charged £100.. it still doesnt hold charge, but I will look at that watch when I can pick it back up from the UK - this is going back 5 years.

So, if I love the watch for its looks and can compromise on movements/ functions, what are peoples thoughts on the best options:

run a new one till it fails and buy another
run a new one till it fails and put in a new movement
get the sub dial moddifications taken off the 7750
freeze the sub dials
get it Quartz-ed
other

Threads about Daytona's seem to be getting very few and far between as people are advised against them, but I thought I'd through this in.

cheers all,
Alex

 

[Fiddo]

The vintage ones run seconds at nine. So, you can alleviate the 7750 issues by picking up a nice Vintage Newman. Also, there are some newer Daytona reps that run seconds at nine as well. Although, because of this they are not "accurate to the gen"....... Really, how many people will even know this? Of course there is also quartz.

I would go with a nice Vintage!

 

[advuk]

Am I correct in saying that the vintages (correct thickness) have the rotor removed and are therefore manual wind?

I've seen separate threads that say manual winding should be avoided and only when necessary, is this not a problem for the 7750 manual vintages?

 

[Fiddo]

I think the case difference with the rotor still attached is only 1mm.....1mm thicker than the gen. 1mm is hard to see...especially with the watch on your wrist. I guess constantly manual winding of a 7750 could cause additional wear. I believe there are also Vintage Daytonas available with a manual wind 7760 movement whcih solves the height issue.

 

[advuk]

with the vintages I would need to get the A-symmetrical case, which I believe means going to spinmaster or DW. I did see a thread where pcsam was enquiring about one, not sure if he got it.

Even if I got a vintage, I still really like the newer ones and will probably add another to my collection.. I believe FM was also creating a quartz one.

 

[reeder139]

I have one which I purchased from another member which had frozen up for the usual reason of the running seconds modification.

I froze the running seconds and of course now it works perfectly, just doesn't have running seconds.

I say, because its such a nice watch, buy a new one, run it until it breaks then either get a modder to give it the carbon lubricant treatment and then when that eventually stops working, just freeze the running seconds. ;-)

 

[advuk]

sounds like a plan Reeder

I'd be perfectly happy with a frozen sub dial, someone would have to be holding the watch to see it or looking very very closely.

Anything specific to look for when I'm asking dealers, or arent there many versions to choose from?

Just looking at vintage Daytona's and found this site, some awesome pictures on there in all of his links:

http://stefanomazzariol.blogspot.com/search/label/ROLEX%20Chronograph%20ref.6238

http://stefanomazzariol.blogspot.com/search/label/Newman%20Photo%20parade

I've actually got one thats not holding reserve to good (less than 5 or 6 hours).. I could send that off somewhere to be looked at if there's any recommendations for people that could do this in the EU. It was quite expensive at the time from cq, but had the movement "fixed" so I've no idea whats in there now, but it was fully functional, so I suspect still a 7750?!

I would need to post photos first to see if its a decent model and whether its worth it, however, it's in the UK and I'm not back there for a few weeks at least.

 

[reeder139]

Get the one you've already got serviced, have the 6 subdial frozen at the same time and you should have a perfectly good watch and the cost will be less than a brand new one. The fact that it's serviced should mean you will have a good few years of trouble free use ahead.

Both Domenico and Francisco are EU based and both are more than capable of doing this. People in the Forum say very good things about them both.

The choice, as they say, is yours...

 

[maxlawbr]

I have 2 Daytonas I bought here, locally, with the help of Spirit.

Both have A21J, with center and 6 o'clock seconds moving hand.

They was very cheap, about 80 bucks, and are very reliable and good looking.

If I was you, I suggest you to try it out.

Max

 

[Spirit]

...Also, there are some newer Daytona reps that run seconds at nine as well. Although, because of this they are not "accurate to the gen"....... Really, how many people will even know this?

The problem of these Daytonas with seconds at nine, isn´t the fact that people will know it because of the "accuracy to gen". But because they´re FUGLY!

The subdials really kill the overal look of the watch with those tiny, hugely separated subdials. It totally spoils the look that makes the Daytona so sexy.

That´s why I´d rather have an a21j with faux chronos, but that looks GEN, than a watch that has a working chrono (which I´ll never use BTW) and looks like...a cheapo.
Best option - IMHO - is to go with an a21j, or go straight to a vintage.

There´s always the fraken ground to tip-toe in, but then we´re talking about alot of work and 3 grand on parts to build one...at least.

Cheers,
Spirit.

 

[Dizzy]

I think the case difference with the rotor still attached is only 1mm.....1mm thicker than the gen. 1mm is hard to see...especially with the watch on your wrist. I guess constantly manual winding of a 7750 could cause additional wear. I believe there are also Vintage Daytonas available with a manual wind 7760 movement whcih solves the height issue.

theres no such thing as a '7760' movement. This is simply a 7750 with the rotor and autp winding gears removed and it was given the nickname 7760. This movement can be manually wound but the experts warn against it. If you do manually wind a 7750 please do it very slowly and carefully.

If you're going to build a vintage daytona get the DW with the mystery "v23" copy movement and get it serviced. Then you have the correct case thickness as well as a reliable manual wind movement with correct subdial spacing also

dizz

 

[Fiddo]

theres no such thing as a '7760' movement. This is simply a 7750 with the rotor and autp winding gears removed and it was given the nickname 7760. This movement can be manually wound but the experts warn against it. If you do manually wind a 7750 please do it very slowly and carefully.

If you're going to build a vintage daytona get the DW with the mystery "v23" copy movement and get it serviced. Then you have the correct case thickness as well as a reliable manual wind movement with correct subdial spacing also

dizz

Ahh..did not know that. I thought it was a different movement. Thanks for the information.

 

[advuk]

I really struggle to spot the wrong sub-dial spacing.. I've looked through images on sites to spot the difference, but cant see it yet.

Is it the space between the 3 and 9 dials from the dial at 6 (where Daytona is written), or is it from the edge of the dials to the dial markers, or both?

I'll have to sit down and overlay some images tonight - it may be so glaringly obvious, but I havent managed to spot it yet.

So,

21J with faux chronos are most accurate sub dials

seconds at 9 are really ugly

seconds at 6 have completey wrong sub dial spacing

 

[fakemaster]

The dial spacing can be seen advuk. But 99.99999999% of people like yourself don't spot it or don't know it's wrong to begin with. Nor do they have a clue what register runs what.

 

[advuk]

@FM - It's quite frustrating for me.. in that I just can't see it, especially when people say its so obvious - so I will find some images and see if I can overly them in photoshop to see it..

.. but it's good that 99.999999% of people cant tell, especially when its on your wrist as per your illustration at various distances some time ago!

Besides, I have a problem, that when people do compliment me on my watch (Im using a GMT IIc as a daily beater, and giving my gen GMT II some care, after 12 years abuse), I have to say straight away "it's really great and it's a rep" - I dont know why, I just cant lie or even hold my tongue and just say "thanks"

When I had the rep Daytona as a daily watch, whilst my other was being serviced, a friend with a gen Daytona looked it over, messed with the chronos, etc, etc and the only thing he could find that made him think he would be able to identify one (if I hadnt told him first) was the feel/ noise of the rotor when he put it up to his ear. He didnt use the crown to move the time.

BUT, how many people on the street will get a hold of your watch - "0" unless maybe your being mugged, then it makes no difference anyway

So, unless your making any more Quartz versions

 

[pcsam]

yes mate i did get myself a DW vintage 14mm ,love it ....i also have a 15mm DW case set for a project later .........ill get some pics up for you ..but I'm in the middle of installing 2 large glass display cabinets in my small home office (for my watches of course ) so everything is a mess at the moment ...................:sam:

 

[advuk]

cheers pcsam, that would be great!

the DW is calling me, but it will wait awhile... the YM will be my next purchase for the girlfriend, modern Daytona next and then I reckon it will be a vintage.

I'm becomming drawn to the PAM's and Breitlings, but for my wrists theres no point, so the above will keep me happy and I just bought 2 PO's from Reg.

I think a watch display case (small) could also be required soon :lol:

 

[Spirit]

I really struggle to spot the wrong sub-dial spacing.. I've looked through images on sites to spot the difference, but cant see it yet.

Is it the space between the 3 and 9 dials from the dial at 6 (where Daytona is written), or is it from the edge of the dials to the dial markers, or both?

I'll have to sit down and overlay some images tonight - it may be so glaringly obvious, but I havent managed to spot it yet.

So,

21J with faux chronos are most accurate sub dials

seconds at 9 are really ugly

seconds at 6 have completey wrong sub dial spacing

Actually, the subdial spacing on the seconds @ 6 with A7750 movements isn´t an issue, just the seconds @ 9 that are, completely wrong and really ugly.

The seconds @ 6 Daytonas are ok to go - accuracy wise -, but the problem there is the reliabity of the movement, due to the bridges used to move the seconds to 6 subdial position.

I´ve put together some pics I got around the forums and a GEN to check the differences out.. in hope to enlighten this subject a little bit more.

1. 7750 Seconds @ 9 from fakey
2. 7750 Seconds @ 6 from Gioarmani
3. a21j FauxChronos from myself.
4. GEN...

As you can see, the difference on the Subdial spacing is pretty much invisible - apart from the secs@9 one - for all of the Daytonas.
The complain about "completely wrong spacing" applies only for the secs@9 watches.

...The only accuracy issue with the 7750 secs@6 Daytonas, is that the movement is thick, and due to that, it needs thicker housing as well, making the Cases of secs@6 Daytonas powered by 7750 movements have a really deep rehaut, a more angled bezel, and a higher case than the GEN.
This issue tho, doesn´t affect the a21j FauxChronos Daytonas, allowing them to have a low profile case, more flat bezel, and thiner rehaut depth as per GEN.

That´s why I considered that the best option, IMHO, as having a working chrono isn´t a worry for me on the Daytonas particularly.

Cheers,
Spirit.

 

[advuk]

Spirit, I really appreciate your time in putting up the pics and explanations.

Can I take number 4 please

Obviously I can see the issue in image 1.

My task for this evening WAS going to be getting lots of face on images of Daytona's and marking them up with lines to see what the layout difference is, that I have so much difficulty in spotting, but there doesnt seem to be a need now.

Whilst looking around, I did find an interesting site going through all the genuine dial variations, including one with an upside down 6 on of the subdials.

thanks once again to everyone whose helped me out with this.

 

[fakemaster]

Trust me when I tell you the macro shots exaggerate things greatly. On the wrist it does not concern me. Now I didn't mention other options because you were focusing on the 7750s in the beginning. I have mine which has been fun and all. But I am the biggest advocate of 21Js up in here. And I am working extensively with quartz on these. If you are ok with the faux chronos I can tell you that reliability is not going to be an issue.