Should the IWC 5001 be added to ZF list? I think it's by far and away the best available right now?
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Best replica models of the particular factories
- Thread starter chronomate
- Start date
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Researched and yes, ZF seems to make an amazingly good 5001.
Thanks for the suggestion, I will include it with the next update.
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You're right. TC makes the 16622. The JF 116622 is supposed to be very good as well.
Aqua Terra - so far no one suggested any remarkable version of a certain maker.
Any Omega expert among us who has an idea?
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Thanks mate!
So both have their pros and cons. As always in life :happy:
The old batch of TF seems to be better than the new one but there is no agreement if the old TF is better than the current JF. I'll include JF also to the list and add the information to TF that the old batch is preferable.
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unk:
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Great pictures buddy! I agree this version is stunning. The deepsea blue on the dial :hypnotized:... wow
Thanks for your input, was about to order one after christmas just to have a watch with an SS bracelet but not anymore. Might look for something else now [emoji57]
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How about the Breitling Avenger Skyland? It has a case diameter of 45 mm (18 mm thick), so almost like the Steelfish. In my opinion it is a really well made rep and some TDs eve have it on promo currently for below 180 USD.
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I mean the one made by Noob, of course. No idea if there are other makers of it but Noob is supposed to be the best.
I bought mine on a m2m deal with leather strap fitted but incl. the bracelet:
I bought mine on a m2m deal with leather strap fitted but incl. the bracelet:
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I want this thread to be a general orientation for new members. This should not be a shopping guide. It's just meant to give a first overview and the motivation to go deeper into details by reading the forum.
Update:
Phong
- Rolex: Specialized in Rolex and supposed to be the best maker for Rolex reps by far - but very expensive (over 1k$)
Noob
- Rolex
-- Submariner 116610 Blue, Green, Black Bezel (ceramic)
-- Submariner 116613 (bicolor, blue ceramic bezel)
-- Submariner 114060 (no date / ceramic bezel)
-- Sea Dweller V2 116600 (ceramic bezel)
-- Sea Dweller Deep Sea V2 116660 (ceramic bezel)
-- Explorer 216570 (white and black dial)
- Breitling Avenger Skyland
- Panerai
-- PAM 111
-- PAM 243
-- PAM 029
-- PAM 292 (Radiomir)
-- PAM390
- AP Chronographs (not as good as JF but lower in price)
- AP Diver (V5)
- Blancpain Fifty Fathoms
- Omega Planet Ocean
- Jaeger LeCoultre Master Compressor
V6F / KW
- Cartier Santos
- HUBLOT Big Bang diverse models
- IWC Pilot Chronograph 3777
- Omega
-- CRPO (Planet Ocean)
-- Seamaster 300m Co-Axial
- Panerai
-- PAM 127 (Fiddy)
-- PAM 312
-- PAM 346 (Radiomir)
-- PAM 359
-- PAM 388 (Radiomir)
-- PAM 417
-- PAM 438 (Luminor ceramic)
-- PAM 504 (Radiomir)
-- PAM 505 (Radiomir)
-- PAM 508 (Luminor Submersible)
- Tudor Pelagos
- Zenith Pilot Type 20
TC
- Yachtmaster 16622
- Submariner 16610 LN / LV (non-ceramic)
- Sea Dweller 4000
H-Maker / H-fac:
- PAM 288 (Radiomir)
- Breitling Steelfish (preferably with Swiss Eta, search the forum for more info)
TF
- AP 15400 (TF only made the 15400 but the first batch is supposed to be better than the current one / also check on the JF model -> more info on the forum in the AP brand-section)
JF
- Audemars Piguet
-- ROO Chronos (little better than Noob but more expensive)
-- Diver V7
-- 15400 (better than TF to some extend -> more info on the forum in the AP brand-section)
-Rolex
-- Yachtmaster 116622
-- Daytona 116520 and all other models to that reference number
BP
- Rolex
-- Sea Dweller 16600 (pre ceramic)
-- Datejust II (41 mm diameter)
- IWC
-- Big Pilot 5002
-- Big Pilot 5004
WM9
- Submariner 16613 (bicolor, blue bezel) - out of production
ZF
- Tudor Heritage Black Bay V
- IWC 5001
GENERAL INFO:
ROLEX:
Submariner & Sea Dweller:
- Ref.-No. starting with "double 1" stand for ceramic bezel
- Ref.-No. beginning with "single 1" refer to non-ceramic bezels
All models:
-> all 6 digit refs = current versions
-> 5 digit refs point phased-out versions
Rolex bezel inserts:
LN = Black bezel - Lunette noir
LV = Green bezel - Lunette verde (often referred to as "Hulk" if the dial is green / "Kermit" with black dial)
LB = Blue bezel - Lunette bleu(referred to as "Smurf" if the dial is blue as well)
LR = Red bezel - Lunette rouge
BLRO = Red & blue bezel - Lunette bleu et rouge (GMT Master, often referred to as "Pepsi")
BLNR = Black & blue bezel (GMT Master, often referred to as "Batman")
Black & red bezel (GMT Master, often referred to as "Coke")
OMEGA:
PO = Planet Ocean (model)
OMEGA bezel inserts:
CR = Ceramic (-> CRPO = Planet Ocean with ceramic bezel insert)
TI = Titanium
LM = Liquidmetal
Update:
Phong
- Rolex: Specialized in Rolex and supposed to be the best maker for Rolex reps by far - but very expensive (over 1k$)
Noob
- Rolex
-- Submariner 116610 Blue, Green, Black Bezel (ceramic)
-- Submariner 116613 (bicolor, blue ceramic bezel)
-- Submariner 114060 (no date / ceramic bezel)
-- Sea Dweller V2 116600 (ceramic bezel)
-- Sea Dweller Deep Sea V2 116660 (ceramic bezel)
-- Explorer 216570 (white and black dial)
- Breitling Avenger Skyland
- Panerai
-- PAM 111
-- PAM 243
-- PAM 029
-- PAM 292 (Radiomir)
-- PAM390
- AP Chronographs (not as good as JF but lower in price)
- AP Diver (V5)
- Blancpain Fifty Fathoms
- Omega Planet Ocean
- Jaeger LeCoultre Master Compressor
V6F / KW
- Cartier Santos
- HUBLOT Big Bang diverse models
- IWC Pilot Chronograph 3777
- Omega
-- CRPO (Planet Ocean)
-- Seamaster 300m Co-Axial
- Panerai
-- PAM 127 (Fiddy)
-- PAM 312
-- PAM 346 (Radiomir)
-- PAM 359
-- PAM 388 (Radiomir)
-- PAM 417
-- PAM 438 (Luminor ceramic)
-- PAM 504 (Radiomir)
-- PAM 505 (Radiomir)
-- PAM 508 (Luminor Submersible)
- Tudor Pelagos
- Zenith Pilot Type 20
TC
- Yachtmaster 16622
- Submariner 16610 LN / LV (non-ceramic)
- Sea Dweller 4000
H-Maker / H-fac:
- PAM 288 (Radiomir)
- Breitling Steelfish (preferably with Swiss Eta, search the forum for more info)
TF
- AP 15400 (TF only made the 15400 but the first batch is supposed to be better than the current one / also check on the JF model -> more info on the forum in the AP brand-section)
JF
- Audemars Piguet
-- ROO Chronos (little better than Noob but more expensive)
-- Diver V7
-- 15400 (better than TF to some extend -> more info on the forum in the AP brand-section)
-Rolex
-- Yachtmaster 116622
-- Daytona 116520 and all other models to that reference number
BP
- Rolex
-- Sea Dweller 16600 (pre ceramic)
-- Datejust II (41 mm diameter)
- IWC
-- Big Pilot 5002
-- Big Pilot 5004
WM9
- Submariner 16613 (bicolor, blue bezel) - out of production
ZF
- Tudor Heritage Black Bay V
- IWC 5001
GENERAL INFO:
ROLEX:
Submariner & Sea Dweller:
- Ref.-No. starting with "double 1" stand for ceramic bezel
- Ref.-No. beginning with "single 1" refer to non-ceramic bezels
All models:
-> all 6 digit refs = current versions
-> 5 digit refs point phased-out versions
Rolex bezel inserts:
LN = Black bezel - Lunette noir
LV = Green bezel - Lunette verde (often referred to as "Hulk" if the dial is green / "Kermit" with black dial)
LB = Blue bezel - Lunette bleu(referred to as "Smurf" if the dial is blue as well)
LR = Red bezel - Lunette rouge
BLRO = Red & blue bezel - Lunette bleu et rouge (GMT Master, often referred to as "Pepsi")
BLNR = Black & blue bezel (GMT Master, often referred to as "Batman")
Black & red bezel (GMT Master, often referred to as "Coke")
OMEGA:
PO = Planet Ocean (model)
OMEGA bezel inserts:
CR = Ceramic (-> CRPO = Planet Ocean with ceramic bezel insert)
TI = Titanium
LM = Liquidmetal
Thanks for your suggestion but I'm trying to avoid the complications of having an A7750 might have a think about it though your wrist pic looks nice [emoji111]?
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In my experience the A7750 run well without trouble as long as the subdial second is at 09:00.
And I usually don't start the Chrono function, that may also be a reason why I never had any problems with this movement.
I am confused about the complications of an A7750 which is a pretty good clone of the valjoux 7750 movement, that is a expired patent movement that was a workhorse for many a SWATCH corp and other Swiss watches.
The only real issues were in modified A7750s where the seconds were adjusted from having their seconds sub-dial at the 9 o'clock position. Even some of those work quite well for a decent period of time, as long as they are kept clean and properly lubricated with the best lubricants for that use. AP ROO adjustment with added gears and in some cases an added jewel, jewels are much like bearings or the act as ways to stop the movement of a gear wheel as they can fit between the teeth without getting busted.
The other common modification is made to the Daytona watches as the seconds are normally at the 6 o'clock position. 8 extra gears are put into the A7750, and I have had one working just fine for almost 2 years. The 50th baby blue sunburst dial. All mechanical movements need servicing about the same frequency as quartz watches, but modified 7750s, need them about every 3-4 years and there are rules. Never put them on a watch winder, as you put extra movement on a modified movement.
Some may complain that with a few reps that the date well is low, but that is not universally true. Many watches are fantastic with them. I can tell you that many iWC with day and date plus chronograph movements are excellent with a good A7750. I can post pictures of my Top Gun doppel with ceramic case as an example. It was put on the sales thread about a month back, but not with any urgency. BTW, this is probably the worst time to sell, as most are hard up from holiday expenditures, while many want to hold on until after Chinese NY, because they think some new version or release is coming. some years this is correct on other years this is not correct.
The 7753 movement is a different chronograph movement that can be better with a higher date wheel, but with the hassle of having to press a indent on the case about 10 o'clock on the side to get the date set, unless you want to crank the movement through the whole month. This is what I choose to do. some reps keep terrible time with 7753's, but this isn't all to common. date usually is at the bottom 6 o'clock, but on the 3799 doppel Top Gun and the PAM daylight models it is more towards the 4:30 position.
Rules of 7750 or 7753 and most rep chronographs.
1. Have them serviced immediately as they are rarely lubricated properly and the movement factories can have loads of lint, dirt or almost anything, like eye lashes and hairs, in the movements, as their really are no "clean" rooms like those in the Western World exist. Hey even Apple has issues, and they spend serious coin trying to dress and ventilate everything properly.
2. only change the date when the hands are in the lower parts of the watch. Many swear that it is best if you have the hands at the 6 o'clock position, but that debatable. The tech and movement section has a ton of great information on this.
3. if you really want to use the chronograph function a lot, then spend the cash and buy a genuine watch of a loser priced brand, that if a swiss probably has a Swiss7750, or at least previously had Swiss ETA valjoux 7750 or valjoux 7751-7753. The chronographs can be used but its best to stop them between 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock, as they can get stuck or break if used regularly, as there can be a lot of stress on certain parts of the watch. The chronic needle is moving with quite a bit of torque and stopping it is rough on any metal that isn't up to par by any jewel not up to par. Thats probably a huge over simplification, but take a look at some eta teardown and you can see how the energy is passed through so many gears and torque of a good main spring to a less than good cannon pinion is a recipe for disaster every day.
Again most of the models, will automatically require that they service your movement and charge you for it before doing any other work, as some have been accused of breaking movements, years ago and we lost a lot of good models and repair guys over people pulling off casebooks, and almost everybody marks their work in a way that they know if you have taken the casebook off, since it was sent back to you. Most will replace the mainspring to a good one and the cannon pinion that holds the hands and chrono needle.
Again a ton of info is in the tech section, and you can go on you tube and watch plenty of valjoux 7750 movements being serviced, cleaned etc.
Its a misnomer to think that 7750s are not great movements considering that the patent on them has expired, and that means it is a very old and trusted design. eTA, and by association SWATCH Corp own valjoux. A genuine valjoux 7750 would go for over $500 now and the valjoux 7753 go for even more. They would never sell if they weren't a very good design.
They are a bit thicker than many of the newer Chronograph movements that some in house brands use. The Miyota-Citizen chronograph movements are a mm or two thinner, but the issue with them is that they are non-hacking movements....and we could go one forever about that and into high beat, mid beat and low beat and which is better or just more close to gen.
Anyway, if you think the valjoux 7750 is not a reliable movement, then you have now been corrected. If you want to use your wristwatch as a stop watch, and many do, a micro brand with genuine Swiss movement is probably the better move, but a quartz like a Tissot T-Touch or some Casio or multifunction 3V quartz is a much better option.
I am just setting the record straight on this.
The only real issues were in modified A7750s where the seconds were adjusted from having their seconds sub-dial at the 9 o'clock position. Even some of those work quite well for a decent period of time, as long as they are kept clean and properly lubricated with the best lubricants for that use. AP ROO adjustment with added gears and in some cases an added jewel, jewels are much like bearings or the act as ways to stop the movement of a gear wheel as they can fit between the teeth without getting busted.
The other common modification is made to the Daytona watches as the seconds are normally at the 6 o'clock position. 8 extra gears are put into the A7750, and I have had one working just fine for almost 2 years. The 50th baby blue sunburst dial. All mechanical movements need servicing about the same frequency as quartz watches, but modified 7750s, need them about every 3-4 years and there are rules. Never put them on a watch winder, as you put extra movement on a modified movement.
Some may complain that with a few reps that the date well is low, but that is not universally true. Many watches are fantastic with them. I can tell you that many iWC with day and date plus chronograph movements are excellent with a good A7750. I can post pictures of my Top Gun doppel with ceramic case as an example. It was put on the sales thread about a month back, but not with any urgency. BTW, this is probably the worst time to sell, as most are hard up from holiday expenditures, while many want to hold on until after Chinese NY, because they think some new version or release is coming. some years this is correct on other years this is not correct.
The 7753 movement is a different chronograph movement that can be better with a higher date wheel, but with the hassle of having to press a indent on the case about 10 o'clock on the side to get the date set, unless you want to crank the movement through the whole month. This is what I choose to do. some reps keep terrible time with 7753's, but this isn't all to common. date usually is at the bottom 6 o'clock, but on the 3799 doppel Top Gun and the PAM daylight models it is more towards the 4:30 position.
Rules of 7750 or 7753 and most rep chronographs.
1. Have them serviced immediately as they are rarely lubricated properly and the movement factories can have loads of lint, dirt or almost anything, like eye lashes and hairs, in the movements, as their really are no "clean" rooms like those in the Western World exist. Hey even Apple has issues, and they spend serious coin trying to dress and ventilate everything properly.
2. only change the date when the hands are in the lower parts of the watch. Many swear that it is best if you have the hands at the 6 o'clock position, but that debatable. The tech and movement section has a ton of great information on this.
3. if you really want to use the chronograph function a lot, then spend the cash and buy a genuine watch of a loser priced brand, that if a swiss probably has a Swiss7750, or at least previously had Swiss ETA valjoux 7750 or valjoux 7751-7753. The chronographs can be used but its best to stop them between 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock, as they can get stuck or break if used regularly, as there can be a lot of stress on certain parts of the watch. The chronic needle is moving with quite a bit of torque and stopping it is rough on any metal that isn't up to par by any jewel not up to par. Thats probably a huge over simplification, but take a look at some eta teardown and you can see how the energy is passed through so many gears and torque of a good main spring to a less than good cannon pinion is a recipe for disaster every day.
Again most of the models, will automatically require that they service your movement and charge you for it before doing any other work, as some have been accused of breaking movements, years ago and we lost a lot of good models and repair guys over people pulling off casebooks, and almost everybody marks their work in a way that they know if you have taken the casebook off, since it was sent back to you. Most will replace the mainspring to a good one and the cannon pinion that holds the hands and chrono needle.
Again a ton of info is in the tech section, and you can go on you tube and watch plenty of valjoux 7750 movements being serviced, cleaned etc.
Its a misnomer to think that 7750s are not great movements considering that the patent on them has expired, and that means it is a very old and trusted design. eTA, and by association SWATCH Corp own valjoux. A genuine valjoux 7750 would go for over $500 now and the valjoux 7753 go for even more. They would never sell if they weren't a very good design.
They are a bit thicker than many of the newer Chronograph movements that some in house brands use. The Miyota-Citizen chronograph movements are a mm or two thinner, but the issue with them is that they are non-hacking movements....and we could go one forever about that and into high beat, mid beat and low beat and which is better or just more close to gen.
Anyway, if you think the valjoux 7750 is not a reliable movement, then you have now been corrected. If you want to use your wristwatch as a stop watch, and many do, a micro brand with genuine Swiss movement is probably the better move, but a quartz like a Tissot T-Touch or some Casio or multifunction 3V quartz is a much better option.
I am just setting the record straight on this.
This is a very helpful link to ETA being how complex chronograph movements can get, but its assembly and disassembly of a valjoux 7750 in one of many configuration.http://www.eta.ch/swisslab/7750/7750.html
Really to look at some amazing movements, you can watch some youtube video of grand seiko or, as I did make friends with the watchmaker at a local AD. I did at Ben Bridge in their non Seattle location, across the Puget sound. I did buy a couple gens over time, but he would pull new models and pull the backs off and show me all the new parts that had be added. You get a real appreciation for complications and just being how adding gears to a main spring, that uses mathematical ratios and dials that show things accordingly with dials and special coatings, in itself is amazing stuff.
Hamilton has a mechanical watch movement, where it has been pulled apart and stretched out, just to see what a basic 1950s 17 jewel hand wound automatic has in those thin little movements. I have a Gerrard Perragaux from the 19502 that is maybe 2-3 mm thick all with these gears and jewelers below the dial and hands and plexiglas dome and case. Its pretty amazing stuff.
This is a movie form 1949 showing the workings of a pocket watch, 17 jewels and blows up the different mainspring power source the wheels and jewels ended to take the balance wheel and the counterforce of the hair spring, which is really micro and almost invisible. its a 19+ minute video, but its very interesting to know what everything does. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZwq1KL4SD0&ab_channel=WatchesbySJX
Really to look at some amazing movements, you can watch some youtube video of grand seiko or, as I did make friends with the watchmaker at a local AD. I did at Ben Bridge in their non Seattle location, across the Puget sound. I did buy a couple gens over time, but he would pull new models and pull the backs off and show me all the new parts that had be added. You get a real appreciation for complications and just being how adding gears to a main spring, that uses mathematical ratios and dials that show things accordingly with dials and special coatings, in itself is amazing stuff.
Hamilton has a mechanical watch movement, where it has been pulled apart and stretched out, just to see what a basic 1950s 17 jewel hand wound automatic has in those thin little movements. I have a Gerrard Perragaux from the 19502 that is maybe 2-3 mm thick all with these gears and jewelers below the dial and hands and plexiglas dome and case. Its pretty amazing stuff.
This is a movie form 1949 showing the workings of a pocket watch, 17 jewels and blows up the different mainspring power source the wheels and jewels ended to take the balance wheel and the counterforce of the hair spring, which is really micro and almost invisible. its a 19+ minute video, but its very interesting to know what everything does. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZwq1KL4SD0&ab_channel=WatchesbySJX
I Heard about a very good maker for the Cartier Ballon Bleu. Can't find the topic again..
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Regarding the 7750 - my expeirence:
- PAM 312 rep (without chronofunction and no subdials) but still with A7750: No problems in years
- Breitling Avenger Skyland rep with A7750: No problems so far (second subdial at 9)
- Gen Breitling Old Navitimer with ETA 7750 (yes that caliber is genuine in many Breitling and other gen watches): Never any problems in more than 10 years (serviced at Breitling two years ago)
- Gen Monblanc Sportchrono with ETA 7750: No problems in now about 8 years. Will be serviced next month for the first time!
- PAM 312 rep (without chronofunction and no subdials) but still with A7750: No problems in years
- Breitling Avenger Skyland rep with A7750: No problems so far (second subdial at 9)
- Gen Breitling Old Navitimer with ETA 7750 (yes that caliber is genuine in many Breitling and other gen watches): Never any problems in more than 10 years (serviced at Breitling two years ago)
- Gen Monblanc Sportchrono with ETA 7750: No problems in now about 8 years. Will be serviced next month for the first time!