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    Chargebacks - Do not do it unless advised to.

    Under no circumstances should you entertain the idea of filing a PayPal dispute or credit card chargeback. This is the quickest way to find yourself banned from this forum and indeed you will become a pariah within the Rep community at large. This is a last resort after every avenue has been explored, including getting the staff involved.. Unless you have express permission from a member of Staff DO NOT DO IT.

    This pertains to TD transactions and M2M transactions alike.

    If you have a problem that cannot be resolved with a TD or another member then please fill out a Helpdesk ticket https://www.rwihelp.com/ .

    Chargebacks bring unnecessary attention to this little hobby of ours. The vast majority of cases where there is problem can be resolved without the use of Chargebacks.

    Do. Or do not. There is no try.
    There is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.
    ? Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings

    The Collection: https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...of-a-repoholic


    Originally posted by Parabuteo;n5110721
    Mods are GREAT at working out things, going to bat for us, and have some tools at their disposal to sanction scammers but they can't ultimately protect us from everything, including losing $ if we are not cautious. The main takeaway is this: we RWI members are participating knowingly in the "wild west" here (which actually thrills me) so...caveat emptor and never spend more than you can afford to lose.

    "Rep on Bros" WingNut

    #2
    Originally posted by C Master View Post
    Under no circumstances should you entertain the idea of filing a PayPal dispute or credit card chargeback. This is the quickest way to find yourself banned from this forum and indeed you will become a pariah within the Rep community at large. This is a last resort after every avenue has been explored, including getting the staff involved.. Unless you have express permission from a member of Staff DO NOT DO IT.

    This pertains to TD transactions and M2M transactions alike.

    If you have a problem that cannot be resolved with a TD or another member then please fill out a Helpdesk ticket https://www.rwihelp.com/ .

    Chargebacks bring unnecessary attention to this little hobby of ours. The vast majority of cases where there is problem can be resolved without the use of Chargebacks.
    I would like to add something to this.
    If you pay someone by F&F paypals terms of service clearly state, that they will NOT be held accountable if your deal goes wrong or anything else. I have witnessed it first hand more than once that somebody thought he could just chargeback a Paypal, Transferwise, Western Union, etc. transaction with no repercussions whatsoever. Paypal is a multi billion dollar company and believe me if you try to fuck them they will come back at you. So willl the others. Because legally speaking (I am no lawyer but i have been through most of these scenarios with a few advocats) you told a company to make a transaction for you which you gave them the money to do so. By chargebacking them you have now sucessfully frauded a company.
    This can probably be explained much better by somebody who is fluent in law. But one thing i can tell you for sure. These kind of actions will not stand in the EU and I am quite sure that they will not be tolerated in the rest of the world as well. In the EU if the sum reaches a certain amount it is comparable to the american felony. These numbers are set individually by the countries themselves. And believe me these numbers are not high.
    Last edited by bleedinglottery; 05-12-21, 18:58. Reason: Edit: grammar because im legally stupid

    Comment


      #3
      Do not chargeback. However, that's erroneous legal advice: you can't waive remedies against someone who violates a deal in advance.

      The reason not to do a chargeback is for the good of the community. It is not because you "agreed" to be screwed over or because it violates an agreement with PayPal or is unlawful. If I buy a watch and a seller ships me a brick, there is nothing illegal about doing a chargeback. I didn't agree in advance to getting a brick. PayPal may reject an F&F chargeback, but *if* PayPal permits the chargeback, that is pretty strong evidence that PayPal believes that the chargeback doesn't violate your agreement with PayPal. I don't know anything about EU law, but in the U.S. it is not illegal to initiate a chargeback (it is illegal to lie about why, of course).

      Again, don't do chargebacks. It screws everything up for others.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by realgenericuser View Post
        Do not chargeback. However, that's erroneous legal advice: you can't waive remedies against someone who violates a deal in advance.

        The reason not to do a chargeback is for the good of the community. It is not because you "agreed" to be screwed over or because it violates an agreement with PayPal or is unlawful. If I buy a watch and a seller ships me a brick, there is nothing illegal about doing a chargeback. I didn't agree in advance to getting a brick. PayPal may reject an F&F chargeback, but *if* PayPal permits the chargeback, that is pretty strong evidence that PayPal believes that the chargeback doesn't violate your agreement with PayPal. I don't know anything about EU law, but in the U.S. it is not illegal to initiate a chargeback (it is illegal to lie about why, of course).

        Again, don't do chargebacks. It screws everything up for others.
        so i asked a few people who know their laws and you are right. but the actual problem is even worse. only speaking for the eu here.
        paypals terms of services are acutally not following the law and they know that. so if you open a paypal account in the eu you agree to their terms of services. that means if something happens to your account e.g. a chargeback, their terms of service say that if you did not choose F&F you are eligible to no refund and therefore are scamming them. that is when the garbage part starts. they are a company operatiing out of Liechtenstein. so they dont fall under eu jurisdiction. they then start turning against you with so called "inkasso" companies who are allowed to collect debt for other companies or persons and the "inkasso" will start going after you legally because you will have to prove in a court of law that you do not have to pay this or that because the law says this or that. these inkasso firms are extremely resourcefull. so this is the first front you will be fighting on and i can tell you they are a real pain in the ass and relentless bastards.
        the second front you will be fighting on is in order to proove that you actually have not done anything wrong and even are allowed to get a chargeback incase of getting scammed is that you have to prove infront of the eu court that their terms of service are not legally right and therefore they have no right collecting the money from you.

        i have been scammed out of over 1-2k over hacked paypal accouts in a single night and while they would have to compensate the damages my lawyers told me i can go down 2 ways. just pay the 1-2k and be more careful in the future. or if i have 70-100k for starters i will be the first person in the whole eu to start an "AGB" legal war that is probably going to take more than 5 years and cost 200-300k in lawyers until im finished. yes i would have absolutely burned paypal but we all know no private person is going to do that. and therefore you are fucked. i have followed many similar cases in the past and they all had the same outcome. for most of the time there was some kind of settlement involved because the people fighting paypal got tired.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by bleedinglottery View Post

          so i asked a few people who know their laws and you are right. but the actual problem is even worse. only speaking for the eu here.
          paypals terms of services are acutally not following the law and they know that. so if you open a paypal account in the eu you agree to their terms of services. that means if something happens to your account e.g. a chargeback, their terms of service say that if you did not choose F&F you are eligible to no refund and therefore are scamming them. that is when the garbage part starts. they are a company operatiing out of Liechtenstein. so they dont fall under eu jurisdiction. they then start turning against you with so called "inkasso" companies who are allowed to collect debt for other companies or persons and the "inkasso" will start going after you legally because you will have to prove in a court of law that you do not have to pay this or that because the law says this or that. these inkasso firms are extremely resourcefull. so this is the first front you will be fighting on and i can tell you they are a real pain in the ass and relentless bastards.
          the second front you will be fighting on is in order to proove that you actually have not done anything wrong and even are allowed to get a chargeback incase of getting scammed is that you have to prove infront of the eu court that their terms of service are not legally right and therefore they have no right collecting the money from you.

          i have been scammed out of over 1-2k over hacked paypal accouts in a single night and while they would have to compensate the damages my lawyers told me i can go down 2 ways. just pay the 1-2k and be more careful in the future. or if i have 70-100k for starters i will be the first person in the whole eu to start an "AGB" legal war that is probably going to take more than 5 years and cost 200-300k in lawyers until im finished. yes i would have absolutely burned paypal but we all know no private person is going to do that. and therefore you are fucked. i have followed many similar cases in the past and they all had the same outcome. for most of the time there was some kind of settlement involved because the people fighting paypal got tired.
          Not speaking for Germany but that is exactly the kind of situation where you would involve a consumer association and move forward (obviously if you got scammed/hacked but not for something involving illegal activities).

          I would think that Paypal would not be willing to take the heat, either legally on the long run and/or in the press.

          The only experience I had went pretty smooth when my account got hacked and a guy bought crypto with it for a few hundred euros. I got a refund in matter of days.

          Comment


            #6
            Please read my review thread. I am absolutely considering a chargeback to my credit card, given that I've been bait and switched.

            https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...aytona-and-box
            Last edited by mynameisneo; 21-12-21, 20:17.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by mynameisneo View Post
              Please read my review thread. I am absolutely considering a chargeback to my credit card, given that I've been bait and switched.

              https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...aytona-and-box
              Sorry to read that review but have you even read this staff post?

              Couldnt be any clearer tbh:

              If you have a problem that cannot be resolved with a TD or another member then please fill out a Helpdesk ticket https://www.rwihelp.com/ .

              Good luck

              "The two most powerful warriors are patience and time"

              "Take care to get what you like
              or
              you will be forced to like what you get."

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