Making a gilt dial (not decal)

[Raddave]

 

[manodeoro]

https://rwg.cc/topic/196701-rolex-sub-franken-help/?do=findComment&comment=1575040

Hmmm ... Ivan's dials are "something else" and another level
Looking at the éroundedé edges on the black part I would say they were pad-printed ... but who knows

 

[Raddave]

Hmmm ... Ivan's dials are "something else" and another level
Looking at the éroundedé edges on the black part I would say they were pad-printed ... but who knows

He did infact say they were pad printed using original rolex printing pads

 

[manodeoro]

He did infact say they were pad printed using original rolex printing pads

That's what I thought ...
I think I'll just forget about dip black coating and train to improve my pad printing skills ... still ugly results but I'm doing better every day ????

But ... maybe he pad-printed the gilt areas with an acetone soluble lacquer, then black coated the dial then remvoed the lacquer
I'll PM Bob to ask if he knows ...

 

[chrome72]

I've talked to a guy who use chemical dip black coating (hematite) to blacken metal parts.
He said that, depending on the heat applied, the dip duration and the composition of metal, the coating can develop some chips and bubbles along the time.
He also said that some shaddy brown areas can appear on the black coating.
He consider all this as defects but that sounds really close to what makes some old gilt dials so collectable.

I have a few test dials I made with my black oxide gun blue. I had one dial have some chocolatey tones in it but this is right off the bat not developed over time. I think I still may attempt a toner transfer image onto the dial THEN do the black oxide, then remove the toner transfer just to see it looks. I think having rechecked my test dials the black oxide has become a more black having just let it sit days. I think I was trying to rush a nice finish with the gun bluing technique. Transfer paper comes today so I’ll hopefully be able to find a laser printer to print some test transfers.

 

[p0pperini]

https://rwg.cc/topic/196701-rolex-sub-franken-help/?do=findComment&comment=1575040

That's the only post in the whole thread that mentions how a dial is printed, and does so in extremely general terms. So it's not really all that relevant Raddave - but having said that, they are nice macro dial pics!

 

[Raddave]

That's the only post in the whole thread that mentions how a dial is printed, and does so in extremely general terms. So it's not really all that relevant Raddave - but having said that, they are nice macro dial pics!

well whatever , i could have just kept it to myself , maybe i should have

 

[p0pperini]

well whatever , i could have just kept it to myself , maybe i should have

Awww... I didn't mean to seem rude! (i.e. I don't want to get banned.)

It's just that I read the whole thread - which was very interesting, I hasten to add - but nothing else in it actually related to the subject here.

But it was very interesting.

Please don't ban me.

 

[Raddave]

Awww... I didn't mean to seem rude! (i.e. I don't want to get banned.)

It's just that I read the whole thread - which was very interesting, I hasten to add - but nothing else in it actually related to the subject here.

But it was very interesting.

Please don't ban me.

except for the fact where it was stated they used galvaninc plating , and he used original rolex printing pads , kind of contradictory , or am i out of line ?

 

[p0pperini]

except for the fact where it was stated they used galvaninc plating , and he used original rolex printing pads , kind of contradictory , or am i out of line ?

Of course you're not out of line... There was a post in that thread about this subject, absolutely. And as I said - it was interesting - especially the photos.

Please Dave, just ignore me. My weak attempts at humorous pedantry don't seem to be hitting the mark round here recently. I'm the one who was out of line. My apologies for that, and derailing this thread too.

 

[Raddave]

Of course you're not out of line... There was a post in that thread about this subject, absolutely. And as I said - it was interesting - especially the photos.

Please Dave, just ignore me. My weak attempts at humorous pedantry don't seem to be hitting the mark round here recently. I'm the one who was out of line. My apologies for that, and derailing this thread too.

No need to apologize , you were not out of line at all , discussion and sharing knowlege is what we are all about

 

[Hor-Fan]

except for the fact where it was stated they used galvaninc plating , and he used original rolex printing pads , kind of contradictory , or am i out of line ?

Not really contradictory as I’m understanding it, just separate steps in the process- first the bare metal plate is pad printed with a non-conductive, removable resist instead of ink, perhaps wax or clay.
Then the dial is anodized black in a galvanic bath, afterwards the original “printing” is removed revealing the gilt negative.

 

[chrome72]

Not really contradictory as I’m understanding it, just separate steps in the process- first the bare metal plate is pad printed with a non-conductive, removable resist instead of ink, perhaps wax or clay.
Then the dial is anodized black in a galvanic bath, afterwards the original “printing” is removed revealing the gilt negative.

Here is the mystery though...you can’t anodize brass.

you can anodize nickel and force a black smooth patina on it though. Go to your garage or shed and take a look at black exterior deck screws or any black coated tool. Chances are it’s a zinc coating forced black with black chromate or some other form of blackening.

 

[Hor-Fan]

Here is the mystery though...you can’t anodize brass.

you can anodize nickel and force a black smooth patina on it though. Go to your garage or shed and take a look at black exterior deck screws or any black coated tool. Chances are it’s a zinc coating forced black with black chromate or some other form of blackening.

Ah, but it can be electroplated, yes? Perhaps the “galvanic paint” is just electroplated black nickel, black chrome, or black zinc.

 

[Raddave]

Not really contradictory as I’m understanding it, just separate steps in the process- first the bare metal plate is pad printed with a non-conductive, removable resist instead of ink, perhaps wax or clay.
Then the dial is anodized black in a galvanic bath, afterwards the original “printing” is removed revealing the gilt negative.

i think the black was pad printed

 

[Hor-Fan]

i think the black was pad printed

On the original Rolex dials, or TDL’s ... or both?

 

[Raddave]

On the original Rolex dials, or TDL’s ... or both?

Hell i dont know

 

[Hor-Fan]

Hell i dont know

Nobody knows!

 

[Raddave]

Nobody knows!

Someone does im sure !

 

[kilowattore]

Im with Raddave here. My uneducated guess as a technically ignorant man is that they just printed the black on a polished brass or gold plated surface. Pad printing sound like a most widely available technique so it's a very good candidate.
chrome72 what's against this conceptually simple process from your perspective?