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Ageing heat blued River hands for 3646 build

Nick_B

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7/7/18
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Hello all

I have on order a set of heat-blued hands from River which are pre-lumed. I would like to lightly age them without damaging the structural integrity of the lume. Some spots of rust along the edges of the metal, a little foxing on the lume maybe.

I have no clear idea how this should be done and would appreciate any guidance those with experience can provide.

I am competent at fine work using a magnifying visor and I understand that all failures will be my own :)

Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
 

Nick_B

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7/7/18
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The hands arrived today, earlier than the stated delivery date. It's nice when that happens :)

I'm not going to to anything until there's a proper plan, but I'm leaning towards salt water minimally applied to the metal to see if I can develop a plausible speckled rusty patina.

If that pans out, I'll try to age the lume with some sort of colour process that doesn't have a solvent base which will destabilise the existing lume.

Also needs to be UV resistant so it won't fade in unexpected ways a year or two down the line.

I searched around about this before posting, but I couldn't find anything specifically about rust ageing blued steel hands, hence the ask. If there's a link I have failed to find, I'd be grateful for the pointer and my apologies for the google-fu fail.
 
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bc1221

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The hands arrived today, earlier than the stated delivery date. It's nice when that happens :)

I'm not going to to anything until there's a proper plan, but I'm leaning towards salt water minimally applied to the metal to see if I can develop a plausible speckled rusty patina.

If that pans out, I'll try to age the lume with some sort of colour process that doesn't have a solvent base which will destabilise the existing lume.

Also needs to be UV resistant so it won't fade in unexpected ways a year or two down the line.

I searched around about this before posting, but I couldn't find anything specifically about rust ageing blued steel hands, hence the ask. If there's a link I have failed to find, I'd be grateful for the pointer and my apologies for the google-fu fail.

You can look at bonesy’s aging tutorial (it’s sticky’d). He does the hard boiled eggs in a rubber ware container and put the hands in the same container. Get the sulfur to give the metal a little corrosion but I haven’t tried it so I have no idea how it would turn out. Especially for heat blued hands. They may not do anything.

For aging lume without having put on new lume, I would get some actual rust from some pipes in your house or wherever. Grind it up a little and add a little water but not too much. You’re gonna want it to not be too watery so it will stay on the lume. Then I just get a toothpick and dab a little bit of rust on the top side of the lume. Some parts a little more but at least once or twice over all of the lume so you get some color and darker bits here and there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

kilowattore

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The egg trick won't work on steel hands, you'll need chemicals but each single spot where you apply chemical will remove the blue finish and show the metal beneath.

Good idea about the rust and water. Rust may stick to the steel part too, who knows.
 
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deadpan

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I’ve got a bottle of ‘liver of sulphur’ that I use instead of eggs. It’s widely available, although - as kilowattore says above - it won’t work on blued steel (and doesn’t really have any impact on steel at all). Does work on brass/ copper/ silver etc. - basically anything that oxidises.

One thing to remember with blueing is that it’s a chemical process to protect the metal, so (with firearms at least) some of the blueing needs to be scratched off for any rusting to develop on the steel. Having said that, firearms are blued in a much more rigorous and thorough way than (I’m presuming) watch hands are, therefore the blueing May be very surface based, and rust may take to the surface well. One thing you will definitely need to do is give them a wipe with a degreaser (such as acetone) before the rust. This-however-May remove pigment from the Lume you have on there. To colour existing Lume, I’ve had good results (or at least results I’m happy with) using minuscule amounts of inks. See results below. This was pure (white/ yellow non aged Lume) that is used brown inks on.


i also used sulphur as well, but just to dull the brass.

i was trying to achieve the following, so had this open throughout;



i used (tiny amounts of) inks and then (if I went too far) a very tiny brush dipped in (again a tiny amount) of acetone to take the ink back again.
 

p0pperini

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Alhig72 may have some ideas to contribute to this thread. I have a Panerai with blued/corroded hands that he built and the aged finish is lovely. It might be excessive compared to what the OP intends - but perhaps there’s some technique pointers Al can share.

7Emp2.jpg
 
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Nick_B

Known Member
7/7/18
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You can look at bonesy’s aging tutorial (it’s sticky’d). He does the hard boiled eggs in a rubber ware container and put the hands in the same container. Get the sulfur to give the metal a little corrosion but I haven’t tried it so I have no idea how it would turn out. Especially for heat blued hands. They may not do anything.

This will work for brass, but not, I suspect for blued steel as the chemistry's not quite right, just as Kilo states. I've seen Bonesy's tutorial, and Kilo's and much else, but none of it really dealt with the specifics of aging blued steel hands, which is why I had to ask. I know it might have seemed like a lazy noob post, but it wasn't. Honest :)
 

Nick_B

Known Member
7/7/18
101
38
28
Alhig72 may have some ideas to contribute to this thread. I have a Panerai with blued/corroded hands that he built and the aged finish is lovely. It might be excessive compared to what the OP intends - but perhaps there’s some technique pointers Al can share.

That's a bit further than I will take it, but I hope he does indeed drop by and explains what he did there. I just don't want to ruin a relatively expensive set of hands by jumping in without a proper idea of what I am doing.
 

Nick_B

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7/7/18
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you'll need chemicals but each single spot where you apply chemical will remove the blue finish and show the metal beneath.

Can you state what solvent you used, Kilo? I have 32% conc HCL and I can make saline :) but if not these, what would you suggest? I like how you did the hands on the 3646 you built for me, so that is what I am trying to do here.
 

Nick_B

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7/7/18
101
38
28
One thing to remember with blueing is that it’s a chemical process to protect the metal, so (with firearms at least) some of the blueing needs to be scratched off for any rusting to develop on the steel. Having said that, firearms are blued in a much more rigorous and thorough way than (I’m presuming) watch hands are, therefore the blueing May be very surface based, and rust may take to the surface well. One thing you will definitely need to do is give them a wipe with a degreaser (such as acetone) before the rust. This-however-May remove pigment from the Lume you have on there. To colour existing Lume, I’ve had good results (or at least results I’m happy with) using minuscule amounts of inks. See results below. This was pure (white/ yellow non aged Lume) that is used brown inks on.

Thanks for this. From looking at them these hands have been chemically blued, although described as heat blued. Not that it really matters; the oxidisation chemistry is pretty much the same either way. I think - but Kilo may confirm - that if an aggressive oxidiser like HCL is used, there would be no need to abrade through the blue layer first in order to get rust spots to develop. But I don't know, hence the ask.

Thanks all for the comments. Much appreciated :thumbup:
 
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kilowattore

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Can you state what solvent you used, Kilo? I have 32% conc HCL and I can make saline :) but if not these, what would you suggest? I like how you did the hands on the 3646 you built for me, so that is what I am trying to do here.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/AK00159-AK-...779695?hash=item4b7b2834af:g:7i4AAOSwqpJe2flX

Hands' blue color, when obtained through heating up steel, can be considered like any oxidization patina as it is in fact one of steel's molecular components that gets to the surface because of heat (I won't go any deeper than this in chemistry because I can't :))
You might use any burnishing chemical like the one above to remove the blue from steel and, if you let it work long enough, create some rust on the hands.
Just like with many other vintagising techniques there is no exact recipe, no exact timing, no "correct" and "wrong" approach as the chemical reaction is affected by a number of random variables (like external temperature for example).
You should find yourself a tool that allows you to have the correct spread of the chemical on the hand and another tool that allows you to remove the chemical without rubbing (maybe blow on it? gently touch it with absorbent paper?)
Experimentation and inspiration are key :)
 
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Nick_B

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You might use any burnishing chemical like the one above to remove the blue from steel and, if you let it work long enough, create some rust on the hands.
Just like with many other vintagising techniques there is no exact recipe, no exact timing, no "correct" and "wrong" approach as the chemical reaction is affected by a number of random variables (like external temperature for example).

Thanks Kilo. As ever, you are a great help :) And I do understand that there is no exact recipe - all I want to do is not ruin a nice pair of hands by going in without a clue. Like someone using a chainsaw for a job which needs a fretsaw ;)