"Aftermarket" or "Franken" Vintage watches on eBay....

[yodog]

So I've been noticing a lot of these "seller refurbished" or "aftermarket" "franken" watches for sale on eBay. Some are are literally 100% fake, or has 1 genuine part. Check these two out below...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-80...546520?hash=item46912fe798:g:wagAAOSw9nJcfC77

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ro...=item3d84655b98:g:~S8AAOSwGMFcdFO9:rk:11:pf:0

They are fetching WAY more than what it's worth, or what you can get on here from various builders. Just like that other dude who got banned from selling a franken Tudor he picked up on M2M here, its getting sorta out of control.

I don't know how eBay is monitoring this, nor if these bids are real or not. I supposed the seller also has a great risk of having the buyer chargeback since its against the TOS to sell anything that hurts intellectual property, no matter if its stated in the listing whether its fake or not.

IMO its bullshit, and people really have to be careful buying on eBay.....

 

[SRower003]

There are a lot of non Rolex being sold as Rolex. Take https://tempus-machina.com as an example. They start with a Rolex but then use their own non Rolex parts to customize it. Not sure how Rolex is not mad at them. They are doing the same kind of thing at the Passion Report with the Heritage. Again, lots of money for the same kind of things a few do here.

 

[hanski]

On one hand, I appreciate the transparency of the sellers. They’re not hawking fakes trying to pass as gens.
Which leads me to wonder, what are the definitions of these various terms and when are they ok?
Franken is a watch assembled of mismatched gen parts right? And even that has varying degrees of franken-ness. To a purist it might be considered franken to put a ‘68 caseback on a ‘67 model. To others it’s ok. In either event, is a franken, when stated as such, illegal or bad? If an unauthorized watchmaker replaces a movement part, is it okay or is it a franken cause it wasn’t an authorized Rolex watchmaker? As far as I’ve gathered from WUS thw gen Watch world is mostly concerned with case, dial, and movement.
And then there are the various parts that, frankly, does it matter if they’re aftermarket? Retaining ring, bezel spring, crown tube, gaskets, end links, bezel, bracelet, crystal, spring bars, etc. If they’re gen spec, really it’s just an unmarked piece of metal or plastic in a form for which I believe the patents have expired (feel free to correct me, I’m not entirely clear on this).
But the dials, here’s where I take some issue. Professionally refinished? Really? The various professional and legit dial refinishers in the USA only touch legit dials that are clearly the dial you’re intending to reproduce (logo or other identifying elements). Maybe I put more trust in the dial refinishers than warranted - maybe they don’t care if they’re being duped with fake dial plates.
The point about mods is well taken. Not only is RPR and Tempus Machina vintagizing new Rolex but there are people who mod their vintage watches with the perfect tropic effect - all of which seems to receive the nods and approvals of their peers. As to Rolex, don’t they state if a watch is modded the warranty is voided - originally intended to deal with the bling added?
Right now I’m of a mindset of so-What. If you’re not intentionally duping people, ripping people off, or faking your way through things - does it really matter?

 

[wildrabbit]

There are a lot of non Rolex being sold as Rolex. Take https://tempus-machina.com as an example. They start with a Rolex but then use their own non Rolex parts to customize it. Not sure how Rolex is not mad at them. They are doing the same kind of thing at the Passion Report with the Heritage. Again, lots of money for the same kind of things a few do here.

First I've heard of these guys - but I have to say, I like it! Just not enough to blow $17K for one.
https://tempus-machina.com/products/tempus-machina-711z

 

[369mafia]

First I've heard of these guys - but I have to say, I like it! Just not enough to blow $17K for one.
https://tempus-machina.com/products/tempus-machina-711z

17.500 is the deposit. the full price is 35, 000

 

[369mafia]

These sellers are most definitely going to get claims against them by the buyers. Their are two types of buyers One knows its a rep / franken and the other are stupid and dont read anything so they are gonna get the watches and both are going to "claim to be ripped off with a fake " and get their money back I would put money on it!

 

[jnathanday]

Pretty self-righteous for a bunch of guys talking about fake watches. I'm including myself. eBay is buyer beware, just like everywhere that’s not a AD. My dad always said that something worth whatever someone will pay for it.

 

[Mendota]

I agree with both yodog and hanski. It's definitely buyer beware in an environment like that and if everyone in the transaction is fully transparent with each other, I see zero harm with that. It's just like our universe here, only we are transacting within a closed environment that is designed for this type of building and modding. Out in the wild, with civilians being included in the mix, that's a different story.

I always come back to vintage autos and musical instruments, or other vintage collectible pieces. There are people who are very serious collectors, who show their pieces in fairs and events, and who depend on knowing every single fine detail about the heritage and authenticity of the piece they are displaying or showing. Then there are enthusiasts, who are absolutely fine using aftermarket replacement parts that are designed to genuine OEM specifications. I consider myself to be an enthusiast. I would not be presenting any pieces as truly authentic and original gens, even if they contained all genuine parts (as I am intending to do soon). As a matter of fact, that would be boring. I think it is far more exciting and interesting to be able to share that you scoured the world looking for parts and you worked with a craftsman/artist to assemble these parts into a vintage watch. That shows you are passionate about the hobby, the history of the watch (or car), the process to find and build the piece, and it just has so much more meaning to you. That makes for far better conversation than "I just went online to an auction and I was the highest bidder!"

 

[djlyfe]

What are some of the giveaways? Seems pretty close to the real thing !!!