How accurate is this stock Rolex Daytona 6263 Paul Newman?

[couleur]

I was looking around for a 6263PN black dial with red secs marker and black bezel, but came across this particular cream dial from Toro which has quite an accurate dial compared to the other reps, and similar towards gen. I noticed that most of the TD's, InTime, PureTime, Supermirror's offerings of 6263PN is nothing as close as what Toro has. The most substantial stock flaw is the subdial spacing at 6 o clock.

I did a bit of research and read a handful of threads but still couldn't figure out which model Toro has. Can anyone here enlighten me? It isn't a Cartel V2 right?

http://www.tb-688.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=39_214&product_id=894

Toro 6263PN on left vs Gen

I'm not looking forward to spend a fortune on modifications. Most likely I will only get a clarks T21 crystal and Yuki bracelet, and perhaps fetch some gen like hands / subdial hands. Not looking forward to mod Valjoux 72 / 72x or going down to Phongs case.

 

[Rush]

Personally, I'd ask a member here who goes by the name TheSociety. He's become somewhat of a resident pro on all things PN Daytona.

 

[couleur]

Yes i've read his threads and comments before this, but I wouldnt want to bug him too much, i'm pretty sure tons of members are asking him about 6263 mods everyday. Just needed to capture a larger group of opinion from others.

 

[Rush]

Yes i've read his threads and comments before this, but I wouldnt want to bug him too much, i'm pretty sure tons of members are asking him about 6263 mods everyday. Just needed to capture a larger group of opinion from others.

I completely understand!
For my 2 cents, overall it's a nice watch. My only concern is that the dealer quotes the size at 38mm, which in reality may be closer to 39mm. The good side is, yes, the subdial spacing is better, but the bad side is that the gen is a true 37mm.

 

[cpd2186]

Yes i've read his threads and comments before this, but I wouldnt want to bug him too much, i'm pretty sure tons of members are asking him about 6263 mods everyday. Just needed to capture a larger group of opinion from others.

You won't bug him, good guy, loves to help.

Sent from the RWI mobile app

 

[TheSociety]

It's really bad to be honest.

I mean...there is just zero comparison a top grade PN dial.

Left: my paul newman dial (the best you can get)
Center: $230 rep
Right: gen

It doesn't just tell time. It tells history.
Genuine Movement Rolex Builds Thread

 

[TheSociety]

Here's another one with my black newman on left so you can compare with GEN

Btw your gen pic is actually a Texas dial. But that's another discussion altogether

It doesn't just tell time. It tells history.
Genuine Movement Rolex Builds Thread

 

[couleur]

Thanks for the reply guys, but im really not looking to franken this watch at the moment. The most i'll invest in is not more than 1k, is there any solution I could get a stock watch, change to gen like after market dial, clarks crystal and yuki's bracelet without having to replace the stock movement?

I dont mind if the 6 o clock sub dial is faux as long the 9 and 3 subdials work. Waiting for your good replies...

 

[Rush]

^^^^TheSociety, thanks for posting that above picture!

It really helps to see all versions in one place.

 

[btan]

Are the pushers evenly spaced on this rep? Looks that way! Should be unevenly spaced


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[Daft_Punk]

Are the pushers evenly spaced on this rep? Looks that way! Should be unevenly spaced


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^^^ This ... and case too big

 

[btan]

Is that also a bubble back?


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[slay]

Everything else aside, the issue with these standard cartel rep dials is that they are printed entirely different than Gen or good rep PN dials. Back in the days they used Pad-Printing techniques and the difference between a cheap modern rep dial and those pad printed dials is about as obvious as ink or pencil hand-writing on paper vs. digital hand writing on an iPad.


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[Daft_Punk]

THE dial ...

 

[couleur]

I've approached numerous members in RWI who has showcased their 6263/6241s with the correct dial specs, and most of them if not all have bought their watches from the M2M. They were really lucky those were all modded with DW dials earlier, which is now almost impossible to source new.

And after doing a bit of research even, watchguyusa1 mentioned he's not able to get anymore DW dials.

Looks like there is really no way getting around a good rep with just minor cosmetic mods, but to franken the entire watch just to get the right sub dial layout and position? Is there really no other alternatives?

And does anyone know which version Toro has? I presume its the 39mm cartel? He stated its 38mm but I think this info might be inaccurate.

 

[GC]

I've approached numerous members in RWI who has showcased their 6263/6241s with the correct dial specs, and most of them if not all have bought their watches from the M2M. They were really lucky those were all modded with DW dials earlier, which is now almost impossible to source new.

And after doing a but of research even, watchguyusa1 said he's not able to get anymore DW dials.

Looks like there is really no way getting around a good rep with just minor cosmetic mods, but to franken the entire watch just to get the right sub dial layout and position? Is there really no other alternatives?

And does anyone know which version Toro has? I presume its the 39mm cartel? He stated its 38mm but I think this info might be inaccurate.

That pretty much sums it up. And yes if the pusher spacing is symmetrical than it is the 39mm case. Also available with an A7750 automatic movement and newly with the ST-19.

 

[TheSociety]

I've approached numerous members in RWI who has showcased their 6263/6241s with the correct dial specs, and most of them if not all have bought their watches from the M2M. They were really lucky those were all modded with DW dials earlier, which is now almost impossible to source new.

And after doing a bit of research even, watchguyusa1 mentioned he's not able to get anymore DW dials.

Looks like there is really no way getting around a good rep with just minor cosmetic mods, but to franken the entire watch just to get the right sub dial layout and position? Is there really no other alternatives?

And does anyone know which version Toro has? I presume its the 39mm cartel? He stated its 38mm but I think this info might be inaccurate.

Guys it's a misconception (I was caught in it before) that DW has good dials. DW dials are crap! They are better than a cartel (1 out of ten) but DW dial is maybe 3 stars? A high grade dial from MQ is about 7-8 while a gen is 10. So while a DW dial is decent and better than Cartel it's not Great. I wouldn't beat yourself up trying to get a DW.

Also 7750 layout is also incorrect to gen. You will want a Valjoux 72 for the ultimate gen spec. A cartel is fine if you don't care and accept that you need to mod the movement to accept the gen spec dial and the other issues.

Essentially these are your tiers:

Cartel stock $250 - all wrong

DW stock $800 - also wrong (no longer recommended)

Cartel with dial + movement mod (for dial) + thin hands $850-$500

Cartel with dial + movement mod + thin hands + flat S bezel + other mods if you wish $1200-$1400

Valjoux 72 base with Phong case and all correct bezel hands and dial $4k - $5k

Valjoux 72 converted to Rolex 727 with all correct specs $6k-$7.5k

Gen rolex cal 727 build $15k++++

Having had every single one of those above specs watches I recommend

Stock cartel (no mods)

Cartel with mods $1200+ range

Or Valjoux 72 $4k range



It doesn't just tell time. It tells history.
Genuine Movement Rolex Builds Thread

 

[Daft_Punk]

This for me .... Cartel with mods $1200+ range. Where can I find more detail on "mod the movement to accept the gen spec dial and the other issues." ... is it just freeze the hand at 6 mod ? (removal of gears) or something else .. searched but not clear to me if it is something else for the Dayona and gen spec dial?

 

[couleur]

Guys it's a misconception (I was caught in it before) that DW has good dials. DW dials are crap! They are better than a cartel (1 out of ten) but DW dial is maybe 3 stars? A high grade dial from MQ is about 7-8 while a gen is 10. So while a DW dial is decent and better than Cartel it's not Great. I wouldn't beat yourself up trying to get a DW.

Also 7750 layout is also incorrect to gen. You will want a Valjoux 72 for the ultimate gen spec. A cartel is fine if you don't care and accept that you need to mod the movement to accept the gen spec dial and the other issues.

Essentially these are your tiers:

Cartel stock $250 - all wrong

DW stock $800 - also wrong (no longer recommended)

Cartel with dial + movement mod (for dial) + thin hands $850-$500

Cartel with dial + movement mod + thin hands + flat S bezel + other mods if you wish $1200-$1400

Valjoux 72 base with Phong case and all correct bezel hands and dial $4k - $5k

Valjoux 72 converted to Rolex 727 with all correct specs $6k-$7.5k

Gen rolex cal 727 build $15k++++

Having had every single one of those above specs watches I recommend

Stock cartel (no mods)

Cartel with mods $1200+ range

Or Valjoux 72 $4k range



It doesn't just tell time. It tells history.
Genuine Movement Rolex Builds Thread

Wow, thats very informative. Thank you so much indeed, truly grateful that you have shed some light.

As mentioned by @bub67, is there any threads about ST-19 movement mods to accommodate the high grade MQ dial? And thin hands I presume will only have to get it from another donor's watch? What about Yuki's bracelet. Anyone here recommend picking it up too?

 

[couleur]

I came across this 6241 dial on the bay, looks relatively acceptable? Do I need to do any modifications on the Cartel V2 case to accept this? I personally think its better than Yuki's and DW's base on my observation.

Just managed to browse through Phong's website and nearly had a heart attack after looking at the prices.