Decal printed dial

[GenuineFool]

I use Rustoleum gloss lacquer and wet sanded with 3000 grit.

I've always stayed away from trying to polish paint or clear coat with a dremel. Some speed is okay, but dremels are high RPM and will easily burn through the paint. You can try watering down your polish, but I would recommend using something like a dremel polishing bit in an electric screwdriver (or a even the screwdriver with a mini foam polishing pad). It's difficult to polish something so small, even a little snag on the edge can burn right through. It happens with industrial 2k paints, and lacquer or acrylic is nowhere near as hard and is more sensitive to heat. In my experience, a buffing wheel is usually safer than a dremel, depending on the polishing compound.

@janneau @WatchN3RD
I recently tried polishing a nitrocellulose lacquered dial with 3000 grit, wet sanding by hand. About 3-4 dozen passes. Smoother, but dull. Went up to 5000 (a dozen passes) then 7000 (a dozen passes), both dry. All by hand. Very smooth, but still dull. Do I need to keep going? Will a machine-aided process be necessary? I then used a Cape Cod cloth, but no polishing compound (don't have any). Recommendations here? I've never tried to polish anything to gloss, so guidance is appreciated.

 

[chrome72]

@janneau @WatchN3RD
I recently tried polishing a nitrocellulose lacquered dial with 3000 grit, wet sanding by hand. About 3-4 dozen passes. Smoother, but dull. Went up to 5000 (a dozen passes) then 7000 (a dozen passes), both dry. All by hand. Very smooth, but still dull. Do I need to keep going? Will a machine-aided process be necessary? I then used a Cape Cod cloth, but no polishing compound (don't have any). Recommendations here? I've never tried to polish anything to gloss, so guidance is appreciated.

I have about 12 dials that are coated with nitrocellulose, just waiting for me to polish so hoping for more insights. I think you need to get a compound to get the gloss though.

 

[WatchN3RD]

@GenuineFool

When you ask if you "need to keep going," if you mean with a finer sandpaper grit, I'd say no. Lacquer is pretty soft, and 7000 grit already very fine.

A machine aided process is necessary with harder finishes like 2-part industrial clearcoats, but for something so small (and being lacquer), a machine should not be necessary. A machine will speed things up, and would be preferable, but a cotton cloth and car compound should be enough. Think of compounds and polishes just like sandpaper grits. The most aggressive will probably say "ultra" or "heavy cut" compound, followed by your standard or generic compound. Next down the list are generally sold as swirl removers or medium cut polishes. The last, and finer grits, are commonly sold as finishing polishes. Glazes do not have anything abrasive, so don't confuse a finishing polish with a finishing glaze.

In your case, a light swirl remover or medium to light duty polish might be all you need. If that's not enough, either use a machine to assist polishing or use a heavier "compound" polish. You are simply removing scratches, so you'll need to be the judge of whether you need a finer or more aggressive polish. I would start with a light polish (like something from Auto Zone, O'Reilly's, etc.) and go from there. 7000 grit is very fine, so you shouldn't need anything too aggressive. I hope that helps and doesn't send you down a rabbit hole!

 

[WatchN3RD]

@janneau @WatchN3RD
I recently tried polishing a nitrocellulose lacquered dial with 3000 grit, wet sanding by hand. About 3-4 dozen passes. Smoother, but dull. Went up to 5000 (a dozen passes) then 7000 (a dozen passes), both dry. All by hand. Very smooth, but still dull. Do I need to keep going? Will a machine-aided process be necessary? I then used a Cape Cod cloth, but no polishing compound (don't have any). Recommendations here? I've never tried to polish anything to gloss, so guidance is appreciated.

Forgot to ask, you have any pictures of the dial before or in its current state?

 

[GenuineFool]

Thanks, @WatchN3RD . Exactly the type of advice I needed.

Here's a photo. On the left is an untouched dial, on the right is the sanded dial. I need to work on applying an even coat and also on sanding evenly. I think the remaining texture might add some interest/ appearance of age, but we'll see once I pick up some polish and give it a go. Note that the yellower than normal gilt is due to the fact that the nitrocellulose lacquer is intended for guitars and is tinted ("nectarine"). My intent was to better mimic the appearance of those 60-year old gilt dials where the bare brass doesn't have the color of bare brass due to the age of the nitrocellulose. I might have overdone it (3 coats), but it is not as yellow in real life as in these photos.

 

[muggs]

I use 7000 grit and then go to toothpaste. This tends to give a good shine, but not quite a mirror finish.

 

[chrome72]

Thanks, @WatchN3RD . Exactly the type of advice I needed.

Here's a photo. On the left is an untouched dial, on the right is the sanded dial. I need to work on applying an even coat and also on sanding evenly. I think the remaining texture might add some interest/ appearance of age, but we'll see once I pick up some polish and give it a go. Note that the yellower than normal gilt is due to the fact that the nitrocellulose lacquer is intended for guitars and is tinted ("nectarine"). My intent was to better mimic the appearance of those 60-year old gilt dials where the bare brass doesn't have the color of bare brass due to the age of the nitrocellulose. I might have overdone it (3 coats), but it is not as yellow in real life as in these photos.

That’s a good reference. I was looking at amber tinted nitro to add some color. I couldn’t find any images of tinted lacquer over anything but wood to get a good idea of what effects it might have.

 

[GenuineFool]

At some point I will take better photos and try to ensure some degree of color accuracy, but it was a quick shot from my phone. The actual color is a bit more golden, like a more saturated brass color. I'll also upload a photo of a bare brass dial to better compare colors.

This is the product that I used:
https://oxfordguitarsupply.com/product/nectarine-transparent/

I'm still in the process of experimenting, so I might try even more coats, as apparently the color will be darker.

 

[WatchN3RD]

Thanks, @WatchN3RD . Exactly the type of advice I needed.

Here's a photo. On the left is an untouched dial, on the right is the sanded dial. I need to work on applying an even coat and also on sanding evenly. I think the remaining texture might add some interest/ appearance of age, but we'll see once I pick up some polish and give it a go. Note that the yellower than normal gilt is due to the fact that the nitrocellulose lacquer is intended for guitars and is tinted ("nectarine"). My intent was to better mimic the appearance of those 60-year old gilt dials where the bare brass doesn't have the color of bare brass due to the age of the nitrocellulose. I might have overdone it (3 coats), but it is not as yellow in real life as in these photos.

Thanks, looking forward to the outcome! I'll add to this for others following along too. The one on the right has low spots that are still shiny. Most commonly, you would not move to the next finer grit until those are gone and the entire coat is no longer shiny. What can sometimes be useful as well, is to lay the wet dry sandpaper on a piece of glass (or another super flat surface) and use that to ensure you are sanding it flat. The other option would be wrap the sandpaper around a block or flat object and use that to keep you sanding flat. It looks like you already have that figured out.

Lastly, if you are in a real bind trying to find polish, toothpaste (as mentioned above) or metal polish can sometimes work. It depends on the types, but metal polish is generally a heavier/rougher grit than paint polish -- and especially more than silica in toothpaste.

 

[dpd3672]

Jumping in here, maybe use polywatch ?

It works on acrylic crystals, so it’s got to be very mildly abrasive.

 

[GenuineFool]

Great advice @WatchN3RD and much appreciated. I'm still practicing several aspects of dial making, but plan on posting the outcome once I feel it's good enough to share as well as complete a build.

@dpd3672 I haven't tried that yet, and need to pick up a tube anyway. I might experiment with it on a dial for the heck of it.

Thanks, everyone!

 

[WatchN3RD]

I wanted to put another example of finding the high and low spots when finishing, and the importance of using a flat surface when sanding. Since I have a never ending supply of failed toner transfer dials, I tried etching one. It didn't work, but after wet sanding it with ~2000 grit, I could really see how bad the etching attempt was and where the very low spots were. Everything dark is below the flat layer I sanded. I also see a giant indentation between the center hole and the date window-- possibly due to warping the dial when heating it. Either way, shiny spots, dark spots, whatever they may be, will always tell you if the surface is truly flat. Here's a befor and after.

 

[WatchN3RD]

 

[chrome72]

Why are you etching?

 

[janneau]

Decided to go with the gilt. Just waiting on hands.

 

[WatchN3RD]

Why are you etching?

I was only experimenting, but I have seen some glossy gilts with rather pronounced negative reliefs. I was really just curious what type of depth and detail a weak etch would produce from a crappy transfer with printer paper.

 

[janneau]

I've still got another NH34 dial coming to make up an albino dial for spare incase I want to change
$33 for the case
$38 for the movement
$10 for the insert
$16 for a 6mm crown from Raffles
$10 for the hands
$20 for two dials
$127 in total, which isn't bad for a budget job.

I ended up printing the datewheel overlay on white gloss sticker paper. After what seemed like endless farting around I ended up getting the correct spacing for the numbers to line up with the window on a NH34 dial :




Didn't want to make/buy a fiction washer to replace the uni-directional bezel so I filed the ratchet teeth on the bezel to make it into a bi-directional clicker (bezel was way too loose without the pin and spring)

 

[GenuineFool]

Instead of waiting until I could pick up some polishing compound this weekend, I went ahead and tried gently rubbing toothpaste in a circular motion using just my fingers. I'm actually pleased with the result. Not too glossy, befitting a 60 year old dial. The remaining "low spots" add some subtle texture, again in line with being an old dial. I also did my best to color correct the photos to demonstrate the differences between a bare brass dial (toner transfer and brass black attempt) and the tinted nitrocellulose. I think the bare brass is more reflective, and certainly a paler color, which might change even with a clear coat. But the nitrocellulose dial has gilt that subtly glows, which doesn't come across well in the photos. I think once the numerals and hour markers are lumed the remaining gilt (chapter ring and text) won't appear overly gold/yellow and will work well. Now I just need to improve my acrylic spraying technique, decal application technique, nitrocellulose spraying technique, and polishing technique. Oh yeah, then I need to learn to lume.

In all three pictures, the decal dial is on the left and the toner transfer dial is on the right.

Notice the difference in color of the gilt. This is the most accurate representation between the three pictures.


At this angle, the light is striking the toner transfer dial better, so the gilt shines more. The glossiness of the decal dial is very representative here, with the bumpiness on the outer edges just visible.


This is the harshest light, showing the decal dial's lack of completely flat surface. Both dials have gilt shining from indirect light.

 

[369mafia]

Instead of waiting until I could pick up some polishing compound this weekend, I went ahead and tried gently rubbing toothpaste in a circular motion using just my fingers. I'm actually pleased with the result. Not too glossy, befitting a 60 year old dial. The remaining "low spots" add some subtle texture, again in line with being an old dial. I also did my best to color correct the photos to demonstrate the differences between a bare brass dial (toner transfer and brass black attempt) and the tinted nitrocellulose. I think the bare brass is more reflective, and certainly a paler color, which might change even with a clear coat. But the nitrocellulose dial has gilt that subtly glows, which doesn't come across well in the photos. I think once the numerals and hour markers are lumed the remaining gilt (chapter ring and text) won't appear overly gold/yellow and will work well. Now I just need to improve my acrylic spraying technique, decal application technique, nitrocellulose spraying technique, and polishing technique. Oh yeah, then I need to learn to lume.

In all three pictures, the decal dial is on the left and the toner transfer dial is on the right.

Notice the difference in color of the gilt. This is the most accurate representation between the three pictures.


At this angle, the light is striking the toner transfer dial better, so the gilt shines more. The glossiness of the decal dial is very representative here, with the bumpiness on the outer edges just visible.


This is the harshest light, showing the decal dial's lack of completely flat surface. Both dials have gilt shining from indirect light.

those look legit its wild how the ambering agent really makes the gilt pop yellow in the pics. nice work !!

 

[WatchN3RD]

Instead of waiting until I could pick up some polishing compound this weekend, I went ahead and tried gently rubbing toothpaste in a circular motion using just my fingers. I'm actually pleased with the result. Not too glossy, befitting a 60 year old dial. The remaining "low spots" add some subtle texture, again in line with being an old dial. I also did my best to color correct the photos to demonstrate the differences between a bare brass dial (toner transfer and brass black attempt) and the tinted nitrocellulose. I think the bare brass is more reflective, and certainly a paler color, which might change even with a clear coat. But the nitrocellulose dial has gilt that subtly glows, which doesn't come across well in the photos. I think once the numerals and hour markers are lumed the remaining gilt (chapter ring and text) won't appear overly gold/yellow and will work well. Now I just need to improve my acrylic spraying technique, decal application technique, nitrocellulose spraying technique, and polishing technique. Oh yeah, then I need to learn to lume.

In all three pictures, the decal dial is on the left and the toner transfer dial is on the right.

Notice the difference in color of the gilt. This is the most accurate representation between the three pictures.


At this angle, the light is striking the toner transfer dial better, so the gilt shines more. The glossiness of the decal dial is very representative here, with the bumpiness on the outer edges just visible.


This is the harshest light, showing the decal dial's lack of completely flat surface. Both dials have gilt shining from indirect light.

That toner transfer looks pretty cool with the different shades. And that does not have coating of clear yet?