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Decal printed dial

Briteling

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28/1/19
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Ok, those right here above look like done with the wrong poper. Normal decal paper has a very thin film, because it isn't meant to remove. The Sunnyscopa film free paper uses a very thick film, because it needs to be able to be removed.

As for the baking, there is drying and baking. I dry for a few minutes with a hot air gun, then let it cool down and then remove the film. Should I peel parts off, I place the film back and apply short burst of heat with a gas torch from beneath and lightly press the parts where it came loose. Then usually after cooling down the film will come loose with no toner whatsoever.

For the proper adhesion you MUST use Sunnyscopa W1 glue (Not W2!)

Then when all is done, and you like the rougher texture you can leave it without applying varnish, but it will be more vulnerable than when properly baked. And you can bake it VERY HOT. I use a gas torch and bake it face down in bursts until I can see some faint smoke coming from it. Then let it cool down face down to prevent dust from entering the toner, as when it is hot it is fluid!

The last baking process will make it quite glossy. You can even polish it further to a super mirror shine. If you want that, plus very deep relief, you can also choose to layer another decal on top, or more. You would use the same process as the first go, but make sure to align things properly.
 
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p0pperini

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Thanks Briteling, that’s all great confirmation of the process I’m already using, plus some extra handy tips. I followed the Sunnyscopa instruction video, and baked the dial in the oven.

On my question regarding whether the exposed brass of the dial not covered by ink will tarnish, have you found this to be an issue?

I’m curious, when you say you have the dial face down to bake it with a blowtorch, what stops the ink smudging or running off the dial, if it’s “fluid”? Do you hold it horizontally by its edges in a vice so the face is not touching anything?
 

Briteling

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If you don't want it to tarnish then send the dial blank in at a metal treatment shop to have it gold plated, they are experts on that and I know a few places here that do an excellent job. However it all depends on the chemicals it is going to see, if it tarnishes you can clean that off by submerging in vinegar and it will be able to go nice and shiny again for another few years. One thing you should avoid is touching it. Also, I polish them with cape cod cloth and that does provide a good protection layer for a while.

As for the running of the toner, it doesn't do that, it will become fluid, but not to a point where it will start to drip. I simply hold the dial by one of the dial feet with some tweezers and put the blowtorch on for a good few seconds, then hold it long enough (another few seconds) till the toner has cured again.
 

chrome72

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for those that have done it, does gold leafing or plating really add that much character to the dial? Or is it only at certain angles and certain lighting conditions?
 

manodeoro

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All that advice indicates that you're talking about the regular decal process Alhig. I am doing film-free decal application, which leaves nothing but the ink on the dial. There's no film to protect the exposed parts of the dial.

But no matter - as I said, I think leaving the brass exposed to the air will lead to it tarnishing pretty quickly, so I don't think it was wrong to follow your advice on the additional layer of lacquer, even though it was based on misunderstanding what process I was referring to... :)

EDIT: I just checked the dial as it's drying, and it now looks nothing like as good with the lacquer sprayed on it. Ah well...

Could someone - who is also using this process - maybe Briteling manodeoro confirm whether I should have lacquered the dial surface before applying the film-free decal?
Sorry for late answer ... I've been dealing with Covid-19 those last week's ...
I don't use no lacquer with film-free decals ... just gold plate the dial plate before applying for the decal ...
I'll probably work on one this weekend so if I do I'll take pics along the process ...

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p0pperini

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Sorry for late answer ... I've been dealing with Covid-19 those last week's ...
I don't use no lacquer with film-free decals ... just gold plate the dial plate before applying for the decal ...
I'll probably work on one this weekend so if I do I'll take pics along the process ...

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Thanks manodeoro I appreciate that playing with watches isn't the highest on everyone's priority list right now! I hope you and yours are well.

I've moved on since the post you quoted, and have made an almost successful dial. I'm happy with how the decal is going onto the dial. My printer's capabilities and inconsistent printing is what's the main blocker to success now.

But it will be very interesting to read and see how you go about it, as you're an experienced and successful dial maker.
 
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Briteling

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for those that have done it, does gold leafing or plating really add that much character to the dial? Or is it only at certain angles and certain lighting conditions?

Looks 100% identical, only the bare polished brass might tarnish over time, but gold plating will get dirty over time, so I don't think you will win more either way. When handled carefully polished brass should take many years before it will tarnish. might depend on air pollution where you are though. I have made dials like that more than a year ago that are still shiny as the day I made them.
I also have a MK2 Key West, and several Cador gilt dials that have a 24K gold plating, and the color and shine are 99% identical to just bare polished brass.
 
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chrome72

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Looks 100% identical, only the bare polished brass might tarnish over time, but gold plating will get dirty over time, so I don't think you will win more either way. When handled carefully polished brass should take many years before it will tarnish. might depend on air pollution where you are though. I have made dials like that more than a year ago that are still shiny as the day I made them.
I also have a MK2 Key West, and several Cador gilt dials that have a 24K gold plating, and the color and shine are 99% identical to just bare polished brass.

If the gilt dials are varnished with a few layers would they still tarnish?
 

bigtiddygothgf

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If the gilt dials are varnished with a few layers would they still tarnish?

assuming they where cleaned well beforehand, the varnish should seal them pretty well. I doubt theyd oxidize if hit with some clearcoat.
 

bigtiddygothgf

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If anyone feels they have the method down pat I'd like to have a 29mm no date dial printed and lumed up with a custom logo as my printer isnt capable of producing detailed enough prints. Feel free to PM me details, pricing, etc.
 

Briteling

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Clear coat is possible, but when that needs to serve as base for film free it might not work well due to the needed heat.
 

Briteling

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1675-fin.jpg


Another film free finished...
 
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Briteling

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I read about the silk screen printing method, here is a cool YouTube video on how to reach a high resolution https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS8Q9LUIKA8

Thanks! There is one caveat though to the method using a printed 'master' for the photosynthesis is that this is again limited to the exact same limitations of resolution as the decal printed dials. Possibly even lower, since you are basically making an analogue copy of the printed master.
 

manodeoro

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Thanks! There is one caveat though to the method using a printed 'master' for the photosynthesis is that this is again limited to the exact same limitations of resolution as the decal printed dials. Possibly even lower, since you are basically making an analogue copy of the printed master.

That's the reason why pad-printing is definitely the best option ... you can have the plate laser engraved directly from the cad document without using a cliché
 
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manodeoro

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BTW ... decal print is not only usefull for dials making ...
That 1977 Ingersoll Sealion came to me without its GMT rotating bezel so I made a "new " one then "printed" it using film free decal ...
I tried to make it look old and scratched as a 43 years old bezel should but I'm afraid I went too far so I'll probably redo it ... a little more reddish ...
Nevertheless I'm happy to have it on my wrist this evening ...

e530a28febfe471f383a582b497e378b.jpg


fb94180538453665688435e83762939f.jpg


Envoyé de mon moto g(7) power en utilisant Tapatalk
 

CaptainSplash

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BTW ... decal print is not only usefull for dials making ...
That 1977 Ingersoll Sealion came to me without its GMT rotating bezel so I made a "new " one then "printed" it using film free decal ...
I tried to make it look old and scratched as a 43 years old bezel should but I'm afraid I went too far so I'll probably redo it ... a little more reddish ...
Nevertheless I'm happy to have it on my wrist this evening ...

e530a28febfe471f383a582b497e378b.jpg


fb94180538453665688435e83762939f.jpg


Envoyé de mon moto g(7) power en utilisant Tapatalk
Man that is cool on so many levels... good on you for experimenting, awesome stuff!

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk
 

itgoes211

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BTW ... decal print is not only usefull for dials making ...
That 1977 Ingersoll Sealion came to me without its GMT rotating bezel so I made a "new " one then "printed" it using film free decal ...
I tried to make it look old and scratched as a 43 years old bezel should but I'm afraid I went too far so I'll probably redo it ... a little more reddish ...
Nevertheless I'm happy to have it on my wrist this evening ...

e530a28febfe471f383a582b497e378b.jpg


fb94180538453665688435e83762939f.jpg


Envoyé de mon moto g(7) power en utilisant Tapatalk

Great watch and great job on the bezel! Did you lacquer over the film-free ink after? FWIW, I think it’s aged perfectly for that watch.
I haven’t seen the Ingersols yet - you’ve got me hooked on a new search now. It’s similar to a Bullshead or UFO, but the racing minute markers are awesome. Nice catch and nice work on the bezel!
 
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Briteling

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Yeah, it is incredibly scratch proof isn't it? I have been making aluminium loudspeakers with active technology and printed all the text and a brand on to the enclosure with decal, I have printed mugs, badges, new dials for my oldtimer car dashboard. This stuff is really great!