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A rant about lume on vintage builds

Nick_B

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7/7/18
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Bright lume on a vintage Panerai or Rolex? WTF?

When will the community get it that this is the biggest possible tell that you are wearing a rep?

Old dials and hands are lume-dead.

Fact.

So no matter how good the build, no matter how gen-like the case, bezel etc. if it lights up like a Christmas tree it is painfully obviously fecked.

I've lost count of the watches I didn't buy because of this baseline mistake.

/rant
 

muggs

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I don’t care.

If someone knows I’m wearing an explorer dial 6538, then they are going to know it’s a fake as I’m not the sort of person that casually wears a £40k watch when I’m out getting shitfaced. I want to see the time when it’s dark.

If anyone asked I’d tell them it’s fake even during the day.


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p0pperini

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Note to self: Remember not to wear a fake watch with fake glowy lume in any situation where someone will notice the lume glowing and that will alert them to the fact I’m wearing a fake watch.

Oh… that’s “no situation ever”? Great! Carry on as normal then.
 

KJ2020

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Nowadays it's hard to wear an expensive looking watch anywhere but I think lume glowing is not a big tell.
 
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KOT1917

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As for vintage panerai, my opinion is a matter of taste and personal preference.

I'm not sure if anyone who builds the 6514 homage wants to pretend that this is a gen of historical watches from the middle of the last century, for 100 + k $, one of the few units that have survived to our days.

For personal satisfaction with design and appearance, it can have any properties that interest its owner.

And yes, in most cases, this is a custom build. And this always prevents her from fully accepting another person. Buying stranger custom builds can match your taste in the unlikely event that it happens.

And finally, there are enough examples, valuable builds with no luminescent luminescence. In any case, it’s not radium, and not even tritium, so it’s hard to talk about the historical model. Just a vintage spirit, as close as possible to the details and personal preference of the builder / customer.

Just build what you like.

If you mean the PRE-V period, speaking of "vintage", then you don't have to worry, DSN shines no better than 30 year old tritium, like most well-known quality manufacturers.

If, as mentioned here, talking about the "call out" of your vintage pams, then I think there are not many people in the world who will take the responsibility to definitely say, guaranteeing with their reputation and means, whether, for example, any 3646 gen or not. This is a highly professional field, and what we try to do and wear with pleasure are just toys.

To summarize, the community knows what should and shouldn't glow.
Everyone makes a decision and does for himself. Do it for yourself, or go along with what others are suggesting for a fraction of the cost of building.
As for the usefulness of certain details, this is also a personal question, I am sure there will be a person who will say that it does not matter whether the dial is lit or not, if there is no gen SF240 inside to match the historical model, and this will also be a justified position. But personal.
 

Nick_B

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Well, I did say it was a rant :)

And clearly I wasn't in a great mood last night...

I'll have another go a bit more calmly this time:

Vintage (radium era) dials and hands are lume-dead, so in keeping with the effort to replicate the originals as accurately as possible it is my strong personal preference that there's no active lume.

Of course others will see this differently but there is no doubt at all that if you want the build to look as correct as possible, then no active lume.
 
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deadpan

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Bright lume on a vintage Panerai or Rolex? WTF?

When will the community get it that this is the biggest possible tell that you are wearing a rep?

I've lost count of the watches I didn't buy because of this baseline mistake.

By ‘community’ are you referring to RWI members, or Chinese / VN distributors?

If cartel stuff then I guess there’s a number of inaccuracies-at least with vintage Rolex- (in ‘raw’ form) that are further up the scale in terms of work req. to make more accurate (crownguards/ crowns/ lugs/ case thickness etc.) before you then address the dial itself, and then the lume. For me they are a good base for the price.

If you’re referring to VN stuff then my dials are lume dead already. Even if they weren’t, a re-lume (irony aside) sorts it.

If you’re talking about member builds then I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and if you’re ‘not buying’ simply because of the lume, then this is something that could easily be sorted by a modder (or yourself if skills are good).

I would agree that bright lume Luke can be a bit disappointing on an otherwise ‘perfect’ build, but I guess it’s;

1) easily removed.
2) handy.
3) as others have said, if someone knows enough to know that it shouldn’t glow, they have probably already concluded that it’s not original.
 

Nick_B

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By ‘community’ are you referring to RWI members, or Chinese / VN distributors?

Sorry, not clear. I meant custom builders including RWI community members.

if you’re ‘not buying’ simply because of the lume, then this is something that could easily be sorted by a modder (or yourself if skills are good).

I've done it, but it cost - it's tricky reluming 2mm sandwich dials (3646, 6152 etc) so a new dial is often the best way. De and reluming hands is a pain and not my favourite job and all this is time and expense on top of the original (not cheap) cost of the watch.

So to reiterate - personally I wish there were far fewer 3646 and 6152 builds out there that light up like christmas trees because personally I think it spoils them. I also believe the demand for them is driven by people who don't understand that they shouldn't be lumed and expect anything with 'Panerai' in the name to glow like a torch.
 
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Hesekiel

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Nick_B,
I'm with you on that one. I want my 70, 60, and even 25 year-old Panerais look as gen-like as possible. When I wear my 3646 or 6152-1 or 5218s (and I only wear them on proper occasions) it has to look like they are the real thing. That's why I feel Kilowattore is the greatest watch mod artist out there. The looks, and wear and tear all have to be consistent with the age of the watch and their purpose throughout time. It's that last 5% that separates 95% of the reps from the top 5%. And if a watch that's half a century old glows like a torch, it is a solid giveaway, not only to watch cognescenti, but to more pedestrian observers, that's something is wrong. I, personally, would not want to be approached at an event and asked if my watch is "real" or "fake." I try to avoid that at all costs as there's no smooth way out of such a situation. The best vintage watches look in every way, shape, or form, like they have survived decades gracefully. In some cases, the former Radium lume will have turned blood red. I want my watches to look so authentic, that even someone who knows their value and is deep into such watches can't tell with certainty if it's a gen or not.
But just an old guy's opinion, nothing more.
 
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p0pperini

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I also believe the demand for them is driven by people who don't understand that they shouldn't be lumed and expect anything with 'Panerai' in the name to glow like a torch.
I don’t think “custom builders including RWI community members” feel particularly compelled to bow to the demands of this ignorant market force that you believe is driving demand. I generally get the impression that custom builders build what they want, and the watches get bought by people who like them.
 

Nick_B

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I don’t think “custom builders including RWI community members” feel particularly compelled to bow to the demands of this ignorant market force that you believe is driving demand.

I'm not so sure. Unless doing a personal project I suspect they build what they know will sell (or they are left with the cost of an unsold or at least sticky watch). Therefore they will lean towards the market preference for inappropriate lume.
 

Nick_B

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I'm with you on that one.

Thank you :)

There's a surprising amount of pushback on this which I didn't anticipate at all. To me, it's all about getting it right. It should look convincing or it's a failed build. So given the prevalence of inappropriately lumed vintage Panerai (and Rolex) builds, I suspect that there are people who don't really appreciate how inappropriate lume is on vintage builds, or having this pointed out to them.
 
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p0pperini

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I suspect that there are people who don't really appreciate how inappropriate lume is on vintage builds, or having this pointed out to them.
LOL. Yes, that’s what it is. Anyone who disagrees with you is obviously an idiot.


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manodeoro

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Nick_B may I say that I'm both WITH and WITHOUT you ?

On the WITH side :
I build my own vintage watches and YES I like them to look as close as gen ones ... I don't put gen movements in but every time I can add them some genlike details I'm happy with that
That's why I like the lume to glow as low as possible ... but still glow
On the WITHOUT side :
I never forget that those are Replicas and what is the most important for me is how I like their look
To be 100% true I don't think anybody in my circle of relationships have ant idea about how much my watches could cost if they were gen

Today my red depth gilt 6610 is on my wrist ...
- the case has been thinned and reworked as close as possible as gens
- the dial is real negative-gilt, no gilt printed
- the case is engraved, 6610 BREVET + and serial number between the lugs of course ... the inside of the caseback is engraved too, just for the fun as anybody who would open the case could see the 2824-2 movement :p
- the lume glow is really low but still there ... because I put my watch near my bed every evening and I want to read the time easily
So WITH, indeed, but WITHOUT too ...











 
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Nick_B

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That is a nice build, manodeoro. And the low level of lume is pleasingly discrete :)
 

Nick_B

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LOL. Yes, that’s what it is. Anyone who disagrees with you is obviously an idiot.

No, not at all.

This seems to be dividing down a line between fantasy builds and accurate builds.

Fantasy vintage builds have lume.

Accurate vintage builds don't.

Everybody's preference is valid.

I'm not calling you or anyone else an idiot.

I'm griping about the fact that the fantasy build demographic has distorted the market in favour of fantasy lume vintage dials and hands.
 
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muggs

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Thank you :)

There's a surprising amount of pushback on this which I didn't anticipate at all. To me, it's all about getting it right. It should look convincing or it's a failed build. So given the prevalence of inappropriately lumed vintage Panerai (and Rolex) builds, I suspect that there are people who don't really appreciate how inappropriate lume is on vintage builds, or having this pointed out to them.

I just build watches for myself - I wear them in bed and want to see the time at night. It annoys me when I can see my older gen watches with tritium Lume so much so that I’ve had the hands replaced with luminova ones.

Consequently I’m aware of what a gen watch should look like. When I build a watch it will always be a compromise as I don’t have infinite funds.

Anyway, how many people are going to be noticing your watch in the dark?

Personally I find that an incorrect beat rate is a much more obvious tell and one that is noted in daylight.


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Nick_B

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Anyway, how many people are going to be noticing your watch in the dark?


Fair point but what I'm wittering on about is the inconsistency between vintage build accuracy and lume. All the effort and time that goes into getting the case, dial, hands and bracelet or strap just so. Looking vintage. And then wrong-o lume which throws the build.

Vintage Panerai suffers particularly from this :-(

Like I say, I'm not calling anybody an idiot. This is not a "¡No pasarán!" moment.

Just a rant.
 

manodeoro

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Personally I find that an incorrect beat rate is a much more obvious tell and one that is noted in daylight.

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100% WITH you !.. though really few people will notice
 
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