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    #16
    Re: History of the Fountain Pen

    Originally posted by Monty
    I just want them to write with not to display.
    Likewise! 8)

    Comment


      #17
      Re: In and Out Burger

      Originally posted by Monty
      Me, I like the In and Out Burger from the In and Out Burger joints in California. They are just great.
      Since we are talking about reps............

      Funny thing about In & Out Burger, did you know they are replicas? They took the bruger and fry idea from a small chain called The Varsity on the east coast (primarily in Georgia). I thing one of the In & Out guys may have worked for the Varsity.
      Always remember that you are special, just like everyone else.

      My avatar can beat up your avatar........and then eat it.

      Comment


        #18
        Ahem, back to the rep fountain pens.
        I have bought 2 rep fountain pens from Neil - an ST Dupont (black barrel/gold cap) and a Mont Blanc Copernicus (black/silver).
        Both are very, very nicely finished pens. When I got it, the Dupont did not write so well, it skipped and wrote very fat when it wrote. But I have cleaned it a few times and refiiled it with ink, now it writes much smoother. So maybe it is a matter of cleaning out the factory impurities.
        The Mont Blanc Copernicus writes amazingly well right out of the box, I am pleasantly surprised. Nice, nice pen.
        My personal opinion though, there is nothig like the experience of writing with a genuine Pelikan 1000 fountain pen - the 18kt gold nib just glides across the paper, it is wonderful. No rep fountian pen will ever be able to do this.

        Comment


          #19
          Re: In and Out Burger

          Originally posted by Roeod4
          Funny thing about In & Out Burger, did you know they are replicas? They took the bruger and fry idea from a small chain called The Varsity on the east coast (primarily in Georgia). I thing one of the In & Out guys may have worked for the Varsity.
          Ok, let's clear up some facts ... yeah, I do fact checking.

          The Varsity was a restaurant opened in 1928, that has subsequently opened several other erstaurants in Georgia. World's Largest Drive-In is their claim to fame. In-N-Out Burger was started in 1948. The concept of Burger and Fries fast food dates back to White Castle in 1921.

          While it is entirely possible that one of the founders of In-N-Out, a family business run by a California family, worked for a Georgia-based restaurant, there is no evidence of this. Needless to say, all burger joints were inspired by the White Castle idea, which was an extension of the European fast-foods of the 1800s, with the street-hawkers of ... damn, back to pens. I'll stop there.

          Comment


            #20
            Re: In and Out Burger

            Originally posted by Pugwash
            Originally posted by Roeod4
            Funny thing about In & Out Burger, did you know they are replicas? They took the bruger and fry idea from a small chain called The Varsity on the east coast (primarily in Georgia). I thing one of the In & Out guys may have worked for the Varsity.
            Ok, let's clear up some facts ... yeah, I do fact checking.

            The Varsity was a restaurant opened in 1928, that has subsequently opened several other erstaurants in Georgia. World's Largest Drive-In is their claim to fame. In-N-Out Burger was started in 1948. The concept of Burger and Fries fast food dates back to White Castle in 1921.

            While it is entirely possible that one of the founders of In-N-Out, a family business run by a California family, worked for a Georgia-based restaurant, there is no evidence of this. Needless to say, all burger joints were inspired by the White Castle idea, which was an extension of the European fast-foods of the 1800s, with the street-hawkers of ... damn, back to pens. I'll stop there.
            Ok, Pugsy.........LOL

            My point was that In & Out have the EXACT same food that the Varsity has. There is no difference in any way. Same fries and same burgers, they even offer them the same.

            Here is some fast food and burger history for you...........

            The first fast-food restaurant is generally considered to be White Castle, founded in 1921 by Billy Ingram and Walt Anderson. They offered cheap hamburgers, sold by the sack, and French fries. As they expanded to more locations, they pioneered the use of standardization, which meant that each of their restaurants looked the same, used the same equipment, and served exactly the same food. Although this approach lacked variety, it lowered their costs and gave people something they wanted: predictability. No matter which White Castle customers stopped at, they could be sure of what to expect. White Castle was a big success, especially during the hard times of the Great Depression (1929–41) in the 1930s. White Castle burgers cost only five cents, and they stayed at that price until 1946. White Castle also helped pioneer the use of franchisingâ€â€selling people the right to open their own White Castle restaurant, with the parent company providing the information, equipment, recipes, and support for success.

            This formula was so successful that many other imitators sprang up to take advantage of a growing taste for fast food. In the 1950s, fast food really took off as Americans enjoyed unprecedented prosperity and as American culture became even more mobile and fast paced. The most successful fast-food restaurant during that time and afterward was McDonald's, whose first store opened in the late 1940s. Entrepreneur Ray Kroc (1902–1984) joined with the McDonald brothers of San Bernadino, California, to spread the hamburger restaurant across the United States. By 1960, there were more than two hundred McDonald's restaurants. Kroc did not really do anything new with fast food; in fact, he used many of the same techniques pioneered by the White Castle chain. What he did do was take those techniques to a greater level of success than had ever been seen before. The restaurant's signature sign, the "Golden Arches," forming a big yellow "M," has become the symbol for fast food the world over. Over the years McDonald's added new innovations to its menu and restaurants, including Filet-O-Fish sandwiches, Chicken McNuggets, and outdoor playgrounds for kids.

            While McDonald's was becoming the leading fast-food restaurant, it was not without competition. Burger King, begun in Miami in 1954, was the closest competitor to McDonald's, offering bigger hamburgers and allowing customers to choose their own toppings. Kentucky Fried Chicken (now KFC) offered southern-style chicken, mashed potatoes, and coleslaw. Taco Bell, begun in 1962, brought Mexican-style food to the world of fast food. Arby's, started in 1964, offered higher-quality roast-beef sandwiches. Wendy's, begun in Columbus, Ohio, in 1972 by Dave Thomas (1932–2002), pioneered the use of drive-through windows. Despite their variations in food and style, all these chains stayed close to the original fast food recipe for success: cheap, uniform food, served quickly and available almost everywhere.

            and yet the Burger goes back even further


            Ground Beef and the Word "Hamburger"
            The origin of ground beef is accepted to have been with Mongolian and Turkic tribes known as Tartars who shredded low-quality beef from Asian cattle to make it more edible and digestible. Russian Tartars, possibly through other peoples in the Baltics, introduced it to Germany before the 14th century. The Germans flavored it with regional spices and either cooked it or ate it raw. It became a standard meal for poorer classes and in Hamburg aquired the name "Hamburg steak"(Panati 1987).

            Panati (1987) claims that the steak came to the United States with German immigrants in the late 19th century but another source (Mariani 1994) claims that "Hamburg Steak" appeared on a menu at Delmonico's (New York City) as early as 1834. By 1899 the dish was on menus as far away as Walla Walla, WA. and in 1902 it is described in one of the most widely used cookbooks of the time, Mrs. Rorer's New Cook Book (Mariani 1994). It is clear that the word "hamburger" predates the idea of putting the grilled beef between bread and came to this country with German immigrants.

            The Patty Between Bread
            Civic pride is not something to toy with and there is a lot of that associated with being the birthplace of the hamburger. If it were only one place there would be no problem, but I have uncovered four places in the United States (two of them in the Northeast) that claim to be where the hamburger, as a sandwich, was invented. All the stories have elements that are central to our culture - thrift, ingenuity, hucksterism and convenience. All the legends have strong local supporters and in three of the places there are festivals commemorating the birth, although none of the festivals is very old. To avoid playing favorites, I am going to recite the stories alphabetically rather than chronologically.


            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Athens, TX

            Although claiming the hambuger invention, Athens is better known in the food world as the Blackeyed Pea Capital of the World and this festival dwarfs the hamburger event, as does an Old Time Fiddlers festival also held there. So while Athens make the claim, it is not central to its existence. (See http://www.gigaplex.com/food/capitals.htm)

            The late Texas historian, Frank X. Tolbert, has done research claiming that Fletcher Davis, aka "Old Dave," invented the hamburger sandwich [photo below]. As the local pottery business slowed down, Davis opened a lunch counter in the late 1880s and some oral history supports the claim that he was selling an unnamed sandwich of ground beef between two slices of bread at that time from the lunch counter.


            Fletcher Davis
            In 1904 Davis and his wife went to the St. Louis World's Fair either on his own or the townspeople took up a collection to send him (there is no evidence for that claim, however). Whoever paid for the trip, he was there since a reporter for the New York Tribune wrote from the fair of a new sandwich called a hamburger, "the innovation of a food vendor on the pike." The reporter did not name the vendor but Athens resident Clint Murchison said that his grandfather had strong memories of the sandwich in the 1880s but remembered the innovator only as "Old Dave." Murchison also had a large photograph of the midway at the 1904 fair with "Old Dave's Hamburger Stand" marked apparently by his grandfather. When Davis returned from the fair there were already several cafes in Athens serving the sandwich and he went back to firing pots in the Miller pottery works. Tolbert's investigation proved that "Old Dave" was Fletcher Davis from Athens (Tolbert 1983).

            All the claims of primacy have to deal with the question of how the name was applied to the sandwich as well as the sandwich itself. The story from Athens is that in town the sandwich had no name but that it was given the name "hamburger" at the fair. The Germans of St. Louis were principally from southern Germany and enjoyed putting down northern Germans who, according to them, were large eaters of ground meat, particularly raw. "So the St. Louis Germans may have named the sandwich hamburger as a derisive gesture toward the barbaric, ground-meat gobblers in the city of Hamburg." (Kindree Miller, nephew of Fletch Davis, reported in Tolbert's Texas).

            The promotional material for the 1991 hamburger festival in Athens stated that the McDonald's Institute had proclaimed that town the birthplace of the hamburger. While the McDonalds Corporation does recognize the St. Louis World's Fair, 1904, as the place where the first hamburger was served, the archives division was unable to find any reference to the study cited by the Athens newspaper (Wizniuk 1998). The person in charge of the hamburger festival in Seymour, WI,, remembers the "study" as an opportunity for school children to vote for the place of origin and recalls that the Athens, TX, area seemed to be better organized to get out the vote.




            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Hamburg, NY
            The claim of Hamburg, NY, also relies heavily on oral history written down long after the event. Two brothers, Charles and Frank Menches from Stark County, OH, were travelling a circuit of fairs, race meetings, and farmers' picnics in the early 1880s. They sold sandwiches using a gasoline stove to fry the meat. The popular sandwiches at these events were pork sausage, fried egg, fried liverwurst, fried mush and fried peas porridge. The brothers decided to focus on the pork sausage sandwich. In 1885 while selling at the Erie County, NY, fair, also known as the Hamburg Fair for the county seat, they ran out of pork sausage.

            At this point the story gets a little confusing because two sources make different claims. Kunzog, who talked with Frank Menches about this in the 1920s, says that when they ran out of sausage they approached a Hamburg butcher, Andrew Klein, who operated a slaughter house and meat market. He was unable to furnish pork to them and, since the weather was very hot, he did not want to do any butchering for a small order. So he offered to chop up ten pounds of beef.

            After forming patties and frying them they decided that a little brown sugar would bring out the flavor. The legend contends that the name was given for the town of Hamburg, NY, and had nothing to do with the penchant for the people of Hamburg to eat ground or finely chopped meat, as claimed in the Athens, TX, story.

            A local historian, Joseph Streamer, writing an "Out of the Past" column in a local newspaper, The Sun, claimed that the brothers had gotten the meat from Stein's market, not Kleins, but in another column he noted that Stein had sold the market in 1874; at that time Franch Menches would have been only eleven years old. With the similarity of "Stein" and "Klein" it is easy to see how one could get confused but it sheds some doubt on the claim. Streamer wrote approximately 200 of the small pieces in the paper and in the one dealing with Stein's market no mention was made of the hamburger invention. Nor do any of the centennial, sesquicentennial or 175th anniversary volumes of Hamburg's history. The lack of mention of the invention of the hamburger in the "official" histories of some of these communities is consistent; all the evidence seems to come from interviews long after the event.

            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            New Haven, CT
            Several sources, mostly Connecticut based, make a claim that the sandwich was invented in 1895 in New Haven, CT. Local newspaper accounts say that Louis Lassen, on emigrating from Denmark in 1880, sold butter and eggs and then leased a lunch wagon in 1895. He first specialized in a steak sandwich with thin slices of meat. He would take the trimmings home and grind them up to serve as patties or meat loaf to his family. Although some of the sources claim 1895 as the date for the sandwich, the Lassen family usually says 1900. Once when confronted with the Athens, TX, claim for Uncle Fletch Davis, Kenneth Lassen, Louis' grandson, was quoted as saying, "We have signed, dated and notarized affadavits saying we served the first hamburger sandwiches in 1900. Other people may have been serving the steak but there's a big difference between a hamburger steak and a hamburger sandwich." (Lassen quoted in Review Staff 1991). The sandwich was sold between pieces of bread and soon became the bulk of Lassen's lunch business.

            Louis' Lunch is still selling their hamburgers from a small brick building in New Haven. The sandwich is grilled vertically in antique gas grills and served between pieces of toast rather than a bun.

            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Seymour, WI
            The Seymour story has Charlie Nagreen serving the world's first hamburger at the Seymour Fair of 1885, some five months before the Hamburg claim. "Hamburger" Charlie supposedly decided to flatten a meatball and place it between slices of bread. Speaking to the Appleton (WI) Post Crescent in 1947, Nagreen claims to have originated the use of the word also. The program printed for the "Home of the Hamburger Celebration" in 1989 contained a reprinted account of the first Seymour Fair in 1885 and there was no mention Nagreen's invention (Anon. 1989).

            It is clear from the Seymour story, however, that Charlie Nagreen did continue to make hamburgers and was rather well known on the local fair circuit until he was eighty years old. He was a busy entrepeneur; his daughter said he also peddled Christmas trees, party costumes, popcorn, fireworks and ice cream and also played in Nagreen's Orchestra. The descriptions of Nagreen written by people who knew him all spoke of his flair for promotion. "Hamburger Charlie" passed away in 1951 still claiming to be the first inventor of the hamburger.

            Seymour has the most elaborate celebration and infrastructure of hamburger history in the Hamburger Hall of Fame (they plan to build a hamburger-shaped building) and an annual one day Burger Fest. In 1989 the world's largest hamburger (5,520 pounds) was served at the festival. There have been no challenges to the record so the annual big burger now is only around 1,000 pounds. This festival also has several competiive events around hamburgers - the hamburger relay and the ketchup slide.

            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Summit County, NY, OH?- False
            I have encountered two passing mentions to Summit County (one in Ohio, which exists) and one in New York (which does not) in 1892. Copps food stores reports (http://204.32.48.195/htm/chron/wldarcmtsf.stm#hmb2) a date of the Summit County Fair (Ohio) in 1892. A newspaper insert from Athens, TX, in 1991 (Sept. 25), the year that the MacDonald's corporation annointed Athens over Seymour, as the "correct" location, mentioned Summit County, NY, also in 1892. I suspect that this comes from the MacDonald's report which I am still trying to obtain.

            The Menches brothers were from Stark County, OH, which is directly south of Summit County so this may be the source of the confusion. It is possible that the Menches brothers were selling the sandwich at the Stark County Fair in 1892, but if their claim is to be believed, they had been selling the sandwiches for 7 years by then. And, if you ever read anything about the hamburger originating at the Summit County Fair in New York, please ask the person to find Summit County, NY.


            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Some Similarities Among the Legends
            Legitimization by Plaque- Louis' Lunch still exists in New Haven and during a threat to destroy the building for a medical center in the mid-1960s, the New Haven Preservation Trust paced a plaque proclaiming Louis' Lunch to be the first place the hamburger was sold. A Yale historian named Rollin Osterweis was present at the ceremony but his length 1953 history of New Haven contains no mention of Louis' Lunch or hamburger. In Athens a plaque was placed on the Ginger Murchison Building, approximately on Fletch Davis' cafe site, in the fall of 1984. I do not know if there is a plaque in Seymour, WI, but the hamburger hall of fame is there.

            If We Claim it They Will Come - Three of these four places hold festivals around the event. The festival in Hamburg, NY, began in 1985 (the alleged 100th anniversary) and has been held since but is down to one day from three and the descendants of the Menches brothers, who still operate a restaurant in Union, OH, will not be at the 1997 festival for the first time. Athens, TX, holds a one-day "Uncle Fletch Davis Home of the Hamburger Cookoff and Trade Fair" in September. Seymour, WI, also holds a festival.

            Shaky Documentation - all the claims are based on the recollections of usually one or possibly two people. For example, we have only the claim of the Lassen family that he served the hamburger but the family says it has signed affadavits. After the publication of a New York Times article, Frank Tolbert of Texas said he received a letter from a Neil E. Shay, formerly of New Haven and then (1974) in Dallas who stated very strongly that "Up until I left the City of the Elms and New Ideas, New Haven, circa 1933, Louis Lassen was still serving this steak sandwich - never a hamburger. It was probably beef off the rump, cut in thin slices". Kenneth Lassen's retort was that he once talked to with "Old Dave" of Athens and, "I don't think he had a full loaf in the oven"(quoted in Tolbert 1983, 135). All these stories fall into the category of regional legend. The Athens Review was notably honest about this saying that which one you believe probably depends on where you are from.

            Bread or Toast, Not a Bun - None of the discussions contain any information about when the sandwich was first put on a bun or roll and all of them note that it was first served between bread or (in New Haven) toast. This is is marked contrast to the stories about the hot dog where the development of the bun was more critical to the sandwich. Mariani (1994) does say that by 1912 ground beef patties were being called "hamburgers" and served in a yeast bun the shape of the patty but provides no source for that information.


            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            Tentative Conclusions on the Origins of the Sandwich
            Civic pride notwithstanding, here is my assessment of the claims. I have tried to take into account the amount and quality of the documentation that people could (or would) provide me on this issue. Nothing I say here will change the minds of people in the various communities but here it is:

            Louis, Lunch, New Haven, CT, 1900- The weakest claim. All the evidence is supplied by the family and there is the one letter from Shay to Tolbert claiming that as late as 1933 Louis Lunch was not serving hamburgers but steak sandwiches. The drive to claim primacy began when the restaurant was threatened with urban renewal and may have been a publicity action to save the family's livlihood. The local myth that has developed around Louis' Lunch in New Haven will be difficult to dispel, however. They still use the original gas broilers - vertical, not horizontal -, serve the sandwich between piecees of toast, not a bun, and refuse to provide mustard or ketchup. It may well be an independent invention but the documentation is weak.

            Charlie Nagreen, Seymour, WI, 1885- The Hamburger Hall of Fame is probably even more vigorous about promoting Seymour as the true birthplace than any of the others. I have not actually seen any of their documentation, however.

            Menches Brothers, Hamburg, NY, 1885- Probably a true story and the clarity of the date is compelling. Frank Menches related the story to John Kunzog in the 1920s when he would have been in his late 70's and was quite clear about being 20 years old the year they went to the Hamburg Fair. There is some doubt thrown in when the local historian confused the meat markets and the story of the name of the sandwich does not match at all with the known history of "hamburg steak." Relying on Hamburg, NY, as the source of the name is not needed and makes the claim a little weaker. The town had several names during the 19th century and the final one was likely picked by a rail company executive looking at a map of Europe; people from Hamburg did not make up an important migration stream to the town.

            "Old Dave," aka Fletcher Davis,Athens, TX, late 1880s- Probably a true story also. This is the only one of the stories that has been investigated by a known and trained historian. Although he had a clear bias for his home state, Frank Tolbert did talk with people whose grandparents knew Fletcher Davis well and who were related to Davis. I have not yet obtained a copy of the work done by MacDonald's Hamburger University in 1990 or 1991 but they supported Athens' claim over Seymour. I do not know yet if they dealt with Hamburg, NY or New Haven. It is interesting to note, though, that while the date of the 1904 St. Louis is clear and this is when the "world" became aware of the hamburger, no one can pin down Davis' cafe any closer than "the late 1880s." Taking a traditional defnition of "late" in a decade, this would imply that the Seymour and Hamburg claims pre-date Athens, although there is no easy way for Davis to have known about the other inventions.

            This is most likely a case for independent invention of an American sandwich icon and we may never know which one was truly "the first."

            DIFFUSION
            Not much is known about the spread of the sandwich. In the Athens. TX, story there is the interesting side note that when Fetcher Davis returned from the fair he found several restaurants serving the sandwich and was unable to get back into the business he had been in for, presumably, close to 20 years before 1904. It seems rather strange that the other restaurants waited until the World's Fair to compete against Davis. The first chain (White Castle) does not appear unti 1921, Dick and Mac McDonald open their restaurant in 1940 but Ray Kroc's first franchise [picture] does not open until 1955. None of the stories contain information about the entrepeneurs trying to spread the sandwich. The Menches Brothers continued to travel the fair circuit for quite a while and it is possible that they served as diffusion agents in the Midwest and Northeast. How the idea of hamburgers got further west is not clear, although Hamburg Steak was on a menu in Walla Walla by 1889. Even less is known about how it got to the South.

            If any of you actually read all of this, then you need to get out more.
            Always remember that you are special, just like everyone else.

            My avatar can beat up your avatar........and then eat it.

            Comment


              #21
              Re: In and Out Burger

              Originally posted by Roeod4
              Ok, Pugsy.........LOL
              [snip]
              If any of you actually read all of this, then you need to get out more.
              Ok, I'm off out.

              Comment


                #22
                hey, does any body know any thing
                about
                fast food?

                Comment


                  #23
                  After all of that I know what I want for dinner tonight - In-n-Out Double Double with grilled onions. Yum!

                  But back to the original topic...

                  Is there any way to modify or replace the nib to get the pen to write the way you want it to? I just did a quick google search and found sites that discussed how to grind the tips to get specific writing feels, and I also found replacement nibs (although they probably cost most than the replica pens do.) But perhaps there are better/cheaper sources if you know where to look.

                  My small replica pen collection is mostly roller ball types. They often don't write as nicely as I'd like, but for just a few dollars I can put in an authentic refill and it writes as well as any pen. Perhaps you can modify or replace the nib and use the best ink to get the fountain pens the way you like them?

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Fountain Pen Hospitals

                    They have fountain pen hospitals and I am probably certain that there are people out there doing mod jobs as well. So one can purchase a rep and then get a nib replacement. How much that might cost I do not know. Fountain Pen lovers are just as fanatical about pens as Watch Lovers are about watches. The issue with the nib of the fountain pen is material and finish. For instance a 21K gold nib is going to be softer and more prone to bending and wear than a steel nib. A 21K gold nib will also write like a dream. It can actually help improve a person's penmanship. A 14K nib is a bit harder and does not write as smoothly as the 21K nib. The stel nibs are harder still and do not write as smoothly.

                    A 21K nib, after a fair amount of use will need to be serviced. The tech will grind it a bit to smooth it out. This is usually very quick and if you go to a pen show, yes they have these, you can probably get it done for free.

                    Many high end companies will guarantee the pen for life. They are interested in you buying more than one of the pens so they provide great service. The fountain pens will often come with a cartridge converter. The converter allows you to draw ink into the cartridge converter chamber. This is very economical as opposed to using disposable cartridges. Some pens will only use cartridges made by their particular company. Other companies pens will take the international cartridge. Whether one uses disposable cartridges or a cartridge converter one thing is remains the same for both. Empty the fountain pen before riding in an airplane. The pressure change will force the ink from the cartridge. If you have the pen pointed downward it will most likely leak onto your shirt, suit, pants etc. If you have it nib up you might not get it leaking on your clothes but then again you might. So better to be safe than sorry.

                    A company like Bexley makes a fabulous pen. They will often produce them in limited numbers. They do not make thier own nibs. They buy them from a German company. The pen body on a Bexley is really a beautiful thing. Now a company like Sailor does not have the same great pen body work as the Bexley, but they, Sailor, make their own nibs. They design them, try different ways to support the nib etc. They make a 21K nib that is fantastic. They make a 14K nib that is also very good. So for me, I would rather have a Sailor Fountain Pen than a Bexley bcause of the nib. The Bexley fountain Pens tend to cost more than the Sailor Fountain Pens. The Mount Blanc is a very good pen and probably one of the most recognizable to people in the same way Rolex is recognizable in the world of watches. The Mount Blanc nib is very good and writes very, very well. However, they also cost more than the Sailor. Of the two, I prefer the Sailor 21K than the Mont Blanc nibs.

                    It is all a matter of individual tastes and what one considers to be the best feel for them. Also, there is the matter of cost. A really good Fountain Pen is like a really good watch to me in that they are both functional pieces of art.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: Fountain Pen Hospitals

                      Originally posted by Monty
                      It is all a matter of individual tastes and what one considers to be the best feel for them. Also, there is the matter of cost. A really good Fountain Pen is like a really good watch to me in that they are both functional pieces of art.
                      I have a genuine Mont Blanc and the nib action feels great. I don't do enough writing to justify trying to find anything better.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Mont Blanc is fine

                        @Pugwash

                        A Mont Blanc is a great pen. Many people would prefer it over any other pen. Fountain pens, represent a greater degree of individual taste than watches as with a fountain pen one is really after the touch on the pen in the hand (grip) and how it feels when writing. So it is really an expression of your personal taste to a finer degree than the watch you wear. At least, I think so. For those who are interested in Sailor Pens and Nibs, here are some links:


                        http://www.stutler.cc/pens/sailor_kawaguchi/index.html

                        http://www.stutler.cc/pens/sailor_clinic/index.html

                        http://www.penseller.com/pages/sailor.htm

                        If you have never read about Fountain Pens before you might find it interesting.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          i have a replica mont blanc pen but i use an authentic refill. so i can't really tell the difference!

                          Comment


                            #28
                            That's because & same with watches

                            @Sye46

                            i have a replica mont blanc pen but i use an authentic refill. so i can't really tell the difference!
                            That is because you have either a rollerball or a ball point pen. A Fountain Pen is a different story, just using the same ink cartridge does not make it write the same for Fountain Pens. Hence this whole discussion.

                            I really considered a rollerball, which is the modern day equivalent of a fountain pen. It has a wet ink. In the end the sort of nostaligic, old technology part of me grabbed me. It is the same with watches. I could get a quartz movement watch with the jerky second hand but I prefer the mechanical movements with the sweep hand. I also like hand winds as well. But I am okay with automatics.

                            Comment


                              #29


                              Good topic this on rep fountain pens.

                              I am also a lover of fountain pens (same or even more than watches).

                              I own more than 20 FPs (from Waterman , Pelikan to MBs , Delta, Aurora y Omas.
                              Now I am after the Namiki and ANCORA ones.

                              I also own some Rep FPs.
                              I can tell you that there is not a single good replica FP. Almost all of them are not good for writting.
                              Bad nibs , paper scratching , resistance , no continuous ink flow, bad pistons , .... etc , you name it.
                              Of course you can try to mod it (change Nib , piston etc..) but replacements are very hard to find.
                              So for FPs , my advise , stick to the real ones.
                              So , for rep brand names on pens stick to rollerballs.

                              BTW: This is by far the best place to buy a gen FP at excellent price. Also accepts Paypal.
                              http://www.pensinasia.com/
                              Med is Best

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Thanks

                                @amk000

                                I own more than 20 FPs (from Waterman , Pelikan to MBs , Delta, Aurora y Omas.
                                Now I am after the Namiki and ANCORA ones.

                                I also own some Rep FPs.
                                I can tell you that there is not a single good replica FP. Almost all of them are not good for writting.
                                Bad nibs , paper scratching , resistance , no continuous ink flow, bad pistons , .... etc , you name it.
                                Of course you can try to mod it (change Nib , piston etc..) but replacements are very hard to find.
                                So for FPs , my advise , stick to the real ones.
                                So , for rep brand names on pens stick to rollerballs.

                                BTW: This is by far the best place to buy a gen FP at excellent price. Also accepts Paypal.
                                http://www.pensinasia.com/
                                Thanks so much for the url for the pens. The Omas is a really great pen but pretty expensive. Since the touch of a fountain pen is so individualistic do you have a local store that you can go and try out the pen before purchasing it online?

                                For me, I would not purchase a pen that costs over 75 dollars without testing it out first. And, as you know, 75 is not a lot for a Fountain Pen. I would want to test the feel of it in the hand and also the way it writes. That does not mean that I would have to purchase that very pen in the store but it would mean that I would know what it is like before buying it on the internet.

                                Do you have a particular style of nib that you like?

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