"Swiss" ETA / Asian Superclones / Asian Clones - What's the best choice?

[gavmeister]

1)Omega PO Baselworld 2016 with Miyota 8215/claps fail,bracelet fail,AR coating fail,rotor does not fill
2)Omega PO with a2824/claps broken,bracelet fail,AR coating fail,movement does not work
3)Panerai Daylight with a7753/subdial on 3' position does not work,
4)Ulysse Nardin with a7750/tested by watchsmith,is not 50m water resist
5)IWC chrono with a7750/by chrono function the clockwise or the subdial moves for 2 minutes,not 1,not water resist.

You said 6 watches? I count 5.

AR doesnt just fall off or get scratched by itself. I have 70 replica watches and not one of them have suffered this. I look after my watches carefully and I'm sure many other members have the same experience.

None of these watches is waterproof to the extent you seem to think they are. You haven't done your research or your reading of this forum to learn about how this work imho.

I think you are bitter about what has happened which is why in the past few hours you have posted on several threads how unhappy you are EVEN though several of us have suggested that you take out a ticket and refer the problem to the Mods to help you. We know you have read these responses because you have commented on them. But you continue to complain on every new thread you find.

Reps need to be looked after. You arent looking after them which has to be why you are refusing to follow the advice given. Or perhaps you bought cheap watches from sellers who are NOT TD's on our forum. Either way it seems strange to me that you ignore the advice we have given you to help you resolve the issues. Maybe you are happier slandering the hobby and dont really want help.

 

[Maron]

You said 6 watches? I count 5.

AR doesnt just fall off or get scratched by itself. I have 70 replica watches and not one of them have suffered this. I look after my watches carefully and I'm sure many other members have the same experience.

None of these watches is waterproof to the extent you seem to think they are. You haven't done your research or your reading of this forum to learn about how this work imho.

I think you are bitter about what has happened which is why in the past few hours you have posted on several threads how unhappy you are EVEN though several of us have suggested that you take out a ticket and refer the problem to the Mods to help you. We know you have read these responses because you have commented on them. But you continue to complain on every new thread you find.

Reps need to be looked after. You arent looking after them which has to be why you are refusing to follow the advice given. Or perhaps you bought cheap watches from sellers who are NOT TD's on our forum. Either way it seems strange to me that you ignore the advice we have given you to help you resolve the issues. Maybe you are happier slandering the hobby and dont really want help.

On the plus side he now has enough posts to make a sale?

Sent from the RWI App

 

[Specter1000]

1)Omega PO Baselworld 2016 with Miyota 8215/claps fail,bracelet fail,AR coating fail,rotor does not fill
2)Omega PO with a2824/claps broken,bracelet fail,AR coating fail,movement does not work
3)Panerai Daylight with a7753/subdial on 3' position does not work,
4)Ulysse Nardin with a7750/tested by watchsmith,is not 50m water resist
5)IWC chrono with a7750/by chrono function the clockwise or the subdial moves for 2 minutes,not 1,not water resist.

What the hell is AR coating fail? I have never heard of that.

....honestly, you are complaining because your rep is not 50m water resist? Give me a break.

 

[tomjnt]

I thought it would be worth a 4-500$ watch to take a shower.But sorry for my ignorance and thank you for your helpfull answers

 

[rooelite]

The problem is that you won't even know if the "Swiss ETA" is real, and most likely not

 

[d4m.test]

Really helpful informations in here, appreciated much !

 

[nodnarb]

The problem is that you won't even know if the "Swiss ETA" is real, and most likely not

So would you say that you would be suspicious of TD's that offer genuine Swiss ETA's as an option? I've considered that route, but reading some of the comments here, I'm worried.

 

[ssouthall6]

There's no need to risk a gen eta option from a dealer when you can buy one yourself from ofrei or cousins or even m2m here and get it fitted by a watchmaker in far better conditions than a Chinese sweatshop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[d4m.test]

I purchased a JF 214270 with a Nickel Plated Asia Clone 3132 . It runs fairly well just a tad fast but it is not so good when it comes to setting the time ,,real choppy hard to set when I try to slowly set it to a minute marker...some times it takes several times.Funny thing is I have 2 6+ year old Explorer reps both with high beat movements and they are both great ! So what's with the 3132 movement ? Are they crap ??

I posted the same thing in another thread. I have a 10 year explorer II, I think I paid 150.00 for it, and it has NEVER been serviced, been Surfing,Diving,swimming,showering etcetc for over 10 years and works Perfect!! I have no idea what it has inside, but considering it's age and price, I imagine something basic. Now the paint is all gone on the numbers outside the watch and it is pretty beat up, but keeps time perfectly and is pretty smooth.
So, sometimes I feel all these technical movement opinions are really for the overly fanatics of Reps. No offense!! I think a lot has to do with Luck on the actual watch you get whether it has one movement over the other.
DNA

 

[Mrhoney]

Hey guys,

i’am going to buy a replica 114060
can you guys help me out to tell what is the best version now a day,s?

https://www.intime03.co/search?search_query=114060&orderby=price&orderway=desc

 

[SwissTimeInfinity]

"Swiss" ETA / Asian Superclones / Asian Clones – What’s the best choice?


INTRODUCTION
The proposal of this Thread is to establish what is the best choice between some current movements in the replica watches:

- “Swiss” ETA
- New Asian Superclones
- Conventional Asian Clones.

Don’t get disappointed, but I have not the reply at this moment.
I try through this thread start a discussion in order to obtain in some weeks an answer to this interesting question for all members.

Anyway in this thread I have introduced some information and links to give you a support in order to base your opinions on them and take your decisions.

I had the idea of this thread many months ago. But just now I have decided to place this thread due to an interesting debate started between Wiz, wat44 and others members, myself included, in a thread put by tillybop with other very different purpose.
This mentioned thread is very important to introduce the main subject to discuss. you can read below the above mentioned discussion as follows:

[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]"Wiz: Even if the Swiss ETA from our dealers are sometimes not really Swiss, at least they're higher grade movements than the ones sold as clones. If you ask me it's worth taking the higher grade, even if it's not Swiss.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]tillybop: I don't understand Wiz. If it's not really swiss, then it is the clone... ..isn't it?[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Wiz: What I'm saying is when a dealer sells a watch with 2 options: swiss or clone movement, the one sold as swiss will most likely be of better quality than the one sold as clone.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I've repaired quite a few 282X movements now, and everytime I've seen one with issues that were not the result of a missuse, the movement had been sold as clones.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]watt44: I dont agree Wiz[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]sometimes, you will get a re-worked swiss which will be worse than an asian clone[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Wiz: It's been a while since I haven't seen one in a watch recently purchased. The ones I see with reworked swiss movements mostly come from watches that are a few years old.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]watt44: also dealer-dependent and watch-dependent[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]the safest bet is buy clone from dealer, and if you feel so-inclined, gen swiss mvt and swap it over when the clone dies [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Wiz: Actually it's more factory dependent. But I talked with a few dealers and they know exactly which factories are known to provide new swiss movements and which are not.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I wouldn't say the safest is to buy the clone. Even if the movment you'll get when buying Swiss is not really Swiss, it will most likely be of better quality than the one you'll get when buying the same watch with clone.
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I'm not saying it's the gospel truth, it's just what I would advise based on the movements I've had on the bench.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]watt44: have you been able to tell the new asian clones from ETA? ive heard from 2 different watchsmiths who reckon they cant tell!!!
Wiz: So far I've been relying on the machining marks bellow the automatic device, but in order to be sure I would need to see a movement that is for sure one of these new asian clones.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]You're talking about the supposedly new superclones people have been talking about lately, right?[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]tillybop: So basically it's a lottery. You pays your money and takes your chance. If you are lucky you'll get a gen ETA, otherwise it will be a clone of varying quality...
Wiz: Some dealers will answer you honnestly on wether they think the factory producing the watch you're after really provides Swiss movements, some won't.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]But the real issue is not will you get a Swiss movement or not, but will the extra money get you something better? And from my humble experience, most of the time the answer may be yes. [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]ALE7575: "Swiss", Asian clones, Superclones... [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]It is an interesting discussion for all members.
I think Wiz could start a thread about this and try to achieve a definitive conclusion, if possible.
I know perhaps we have not enough data to take a decission, but we need to know if it is not definitively better a Clone than a "Swiss", because the thoughts of most members are: Clone better than "Swiss"
There are a lot of consults from noobs who are asking the more "expert" members for a decission between Clone or "Swiss", and the more frequent reply is: Go to the clone !!![/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]tillybop: Good point[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I've read loads of threads where members have been tod to stay away from swiss and go for the clones. So a definitive answer either way woud be beneficial for all. [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Wiz: The problem is that people are looking for a definitive answer, when around here things re in perpetual evolution.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]What was considered to be true yesterday might not still be true today, and today's truth might not be tomorrow's truth.
And the reason why I don't make a thread about it is because I don't consider my opinion to be the gospel truth. I can only talk from my experience.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Watt44: in the last 3 months, I have heard directly from 1 watchsmith and indirectly from 2 others who have opened up and taken apart a movement and were UNABLE to tell whether they were working on the new asian clone or the ETA[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]all 3 are related to this forum
this is a fairly new development
Mary was sourcing a watch for me, and some dealers were claiming swiss mvt for a certain price, and mary said there is NO WAY they were swiss because of the price they were selling them at - ie new swiss - it is possible for old or re-cycled swiss stock
so depending on wat you are buying... could be:
1. gen ETA new stock
2. old ETA, reserviced, recylced, recobbled... (the worst outcome)
3. new clones
4. older clones
much harder to know exactly wat you will be getting... Robert and Mary I think would be the only ones capable of knowing wat they are selling to you. MR next best
IMO [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I just found this:[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]http://www.rwg.cc/topic/135779-2836-..._fromsearch__1
interesting, too[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Wiz: They could probably tell the difference if they had a swiss and a new clone side by side and were looking for differences.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Rep dealers can't produce 1:1 cases, dials, ..., why would they be able to produce 1:1 movements...?
If I get a watch that is a confirmed new clone I'll try to look for differences.
There are less and less watches coming with refurbished swiss movement, so the option 2 is less and less likely.
Option 4 is also not much likely since most of the time you'll get a better movement when ordering swiss than when ordering clone.
Bottom line is, all the reps with 282X movements that ended up on my bench with issues were powered by clones, so no matter what you'll get when ordering swiss, I can't advise to go for the clone. [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]KBH: Maybe the question should be which is better, a new clone or an old ETA that needs servicing, which is likely what you'd get in the last few years? Then it becomes a harder choice. I'd still go with the Swiss if it was watch I really liked. If it was one I'd probably flip, I'd go with the clone.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Now the game is changing with the new Sellita SW200 movements coming in reps. I'll take that any time knowing it's a factory fresh Swiss movement. [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Wiz: Between the reps I bought and the ones I've had on the bench from others, I've seen maybe around 30 movements sold as Swiss. Out of these, I can only remember 2 which were in really bad condition and showed excessive signs of wear, and another one which was in average condition.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Sure it's not enough to draw a rule, but I guess that's engouh to say that the odds of getting a refurbished Swiss movement are not as big as some may think.[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]I don't know where the belief that most Swiss movements are refurbished came from. Maybe it used to be true a few years ago".[/FONT]​

[/FONT]The link for this thread is indicated below, please read from post #30:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/what-value-this-modded-sub-87294p3



THE CONTENDERS
The movements which are installed in replicas that we are talking about are as follows:

“Swiss” ETA
The thoughts about these movements are:
- These “Swiss” movements are not really authentic NEW Swiss ETA, they are refurbished Swiss ETA movements.
- These “Swiss” movements are really new Swiss ETA
- These “Swiss” movements are made with a part of authentic Swiss parts and a part of good Asian clone parts.
- ……
- ……

These movements are sold more expensive than the Asian and the question is if it is worth to pay this difference.
Many people (myself included) even say that the installed “Swiss” in replicas are worse than Asian clones at this moment. Because the Asian clone is NEW and relatively controlled but the “Swiss” has an unknown origin and age.

It is interesting to have more information about these movements. Thus, read the Wiz opinions in the thread above mentioned and the following thread placed by Francisco:

http://repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=87481

The thread of Francisco seems definitive. But after reading the Wiz’s opinions we could think that perhaps there are some things that are starting to change in the replica movements.

Besides we have the words of sead1999 in a post of this forum:

Originally Posted by sead1999:
"Hello everyone
There are:
- Swiss ETA 2836 movements,
- Swiss ETA 2824 movements,
- Swiss Sellita movements (They have not made a clone Sellita in China yet so the movements on sale must be Swiss)
- There are also Swiss 7750 movements, Swiss 2892 movements, Swiss 2893 movements, and others...

Most of the replica watches sold with 'Swiss ETA' movements, that are priced between $200 and $300, contain 2824 and 2836 movements. Their price is not that high because of how simple the movements are, and also because about 60% of the parts in the 'Swiss ETA' are actually made in China.

There are different grades of movement available too:
- [platinum?] plated
- brand new
- refurbished
- used
- and other grades.

Swiss Sellita movements usually cost the same price as [Swiss] 2824 and [Swiss] 2836 movements.

When choose a 7750 or 2892 movement, they are more rare and more complex, and the price is correspondingly much higher. For example, you can't buy a replica watch with a Swiss 7750 movement for under $600.

The movements like Swiss ETA 2824 or 2836 are available to buy from retailers in the USA for about $150 (from Ofrei, for example) but you can also buy them much cheaper, so don't forget you can get these movements for less than $150.

When you buy a watch sold as Swiss but you get a Clone movement, it may have happened for two reasons:
- the Dealer is trying to make some extra profit because the Clone and Swiss movements are very similar (and the dealer hopes you won't notice)
- or there has been miscommunication between the dealer and the factory, and the dealer made an honest mistake."

New Asian Superclones
These movements are the last generation of Asian clones, they have a good price and, besides, they have seemingly a very good quality. The accuracy of these Superclones to the gen Swiss ETA is very good. And seemingly all the parts are interchangeable.

Below a link to a Puretime Superclone information:

http://puretimewatch.com/blog/166/

There are not many reviews of these movements, because they are very new. But the best information that I have been able to found (indicated by Bonesey) are two interesting and complete threads placed by Smidsy.

http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=149097
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=149100

Please bear in mind the last words of Smidsy in his thread:
"The movement I got could have been the best or worst in a bunch and we have no way of knowing. Please bear in mind that these are my opinions of the movement I reviewed".
Threfore we must be cautious

Just read these threads and judge by yourself. Asian Superclones maybe a new possibility!!

Conventional Asian Clones
These movementes were and are considered until this moment the best choice: reliable, precise enough, cheaper and…NEW.
Most of fans at this moment think that this is the best option to buy.
But if you read the opinions in the above mentioned threads you could change your opinion.
Because, If we confirm that the Smidsy review is correct in the future and, besides, a big percentage of Superclones are in this way, we will have to change our thoughts and purchase decisions.


PERPETUAL EVOLUTION
Anyway I agree with Wiz’s words:

“The problem is that people are looking for a definitive answer, when around here things are in perpetual evolution.
What was considered to be true yesterday might not still be true today, and today's truth might not be tomorrow's truth”.

And this is the true, the reps world is in evolution and we must to study the matters carefully before to take a wrong decision.

I hope in some weeks to have a lot of opinions from the members in order to obtain sound conclusions soon

Therefore, as always, this thread is open to receive the opinions from all people.


THIS THREAD START IN THIS MOMENT WITH YOUR OPINIONS

WITHOUT YOUR OPINIONS THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS

Many thanks for your kind cooperation
ALE

MIYOTA 9015 is the best movement for replica watch.
Made in Japan.
Very accurate and reasonable.

 

[Bojack]

I have never sseen such superclones, bit very good Information.
Hopefully i find them somewhere. All links seem to be dead..

 

[Jackster]

Hey guys,

i’am going to buy a replica 114060
can you guys help me out to tell what is the best version now a day,s?

https://www.intime03.co/search?search_query=114060&orderby=price&orderway=desc

A2836, very reliable, A2824 is ok too if it’s done in that, I’d stay away from the Sh & the Sa’s, they are more like gen but not as reliable!

 

[60Steps]

I bought a wm9 sub and 50th anniversary both with Swiss eta which I was told is from the same factory as swatche watches. The black sub has never had an issue and is at least 10 years old. Serviced once. The 50th anniversary had an issue where the crown detached itself from the hands and would not change time or wind so had to get that fixed. Now working fine. I've never opened the back and wouldn't even know what a Swiss eta looks like but wm9 were one of the best back then, but that's my opinion. I would pay that little bit more for a Swiss eta and I believe there are some TD's that can get the swatch Swiss eta's

 

[Watch-Out]

Is there a source for ETAs you know? I mean not ebay etc. And: do I need to mod those ETAs to get them in the rep case / are there rep model cases that doesnt to be modified for swapping movements?

 

[FRNOOB]

Merci pour tous les détails ! c'est une véritable mine d'or d'informations. Je sais exactement ce que je recherche maintenant.

 

[alix]

What is the current update in the movement world? 2824/2836 etc etc